To think there is too much pressure to formula feed?

[daffodilsandprimroses]

I’ve been considering making this post for a while but was worried about being flamed - I probably will be.

I am definitely not speaking to or about the women who made a choice to formula feed, either from the start or after trying breastfeeding and deciding it wasn’t for them.

I am talking about the women like me who really wanted to breastfeed and tried.

I found the midwives were very quick to leap to pushing formula once breastfeeding wasn’t working. When ds lost weight after birth rather than helping support me to feed him we were put on a feeding plan involving formula.

Why is there no support for breastfeeding?

Also, not to knock it for anyone who really wants to, but the notion that if only there was more support, lots of mothers would choose to pump at work in order to continue EBF beyond six months just goes to show how intense and pervasive the assumption that women should breastfeed at all costs is. No way I would put myself through that just for marginal health gains past six months. And I suspect that the majority of women who do so also make plenty of other non-optimal choices in relation to other aspects of child-rearing. So why the assumption that breastfeeding is the one area where we should all strive to provide the absolute optimum for our child?

I think which way the social pressure goes very much depends on what your social group (or family) is like. I very much felt pressure to breastfeed (which I also wanted to do). My mum, mum-in-law, and sister-in-law all breastfed all their babies. Among my friends, I literally don't know anyone who formula fed before 6 months.

I actually was concerned enough about what would be said if I couldn't breastfeed (bear in mind I wanted to) that I discussed it ahead of time with DH.

As it happened, DD took to it reasonably well, and I had good midwife support, so I didn't need to use formula.

Also, not to knock it for anyone who really wants to, but the notion that if only there was more support, lots of mothers would choose to pump at work in order to continue EBF beyond six months just goes to show how intense and pervasive the assumption that women should breastfeed at all costs is

I agree, it also goes to show the lack of correct information to help women return to work.

I didn’t pump at all when I returned to work. It is perfectly possible to continue breastfeed once baby is on solids without expressing or giving formula. Mine was happy with solid food in the day, and instead added an extra bf in the evening. Much easier than faffing with bottles of ebm.

@Etherealhedgehog Can we please not use the term 'giving up' in relation to women who stop breastfeeding, particularly after six months?

You know, I've never really considered this before but I think you're really right on this. It's similar to people "losing their battle with cancer" where if maybe they'd tried a bit harder they wouldn't have died. If you've been BF for six months, it's not that you're just giving up like some breastfeeding wimp. Something's changed that means you stop.

It bugs me sometimes that because I didn't BF to a year, I'm one of those "failure" statistics, the 99.5% who "give up". After ten months I was well over it, babies were well into their food, they were getting about half a drop a day anyway. Instead I just fall into the chasm between six and twelve months of "at some point during this enormous period of time, most women stop BF, tut tut".

Also, pumping is fucking awful. I will jump down the throat of anyone who suggests I shackle myself to a pump "for baby" while getting the absolute worst of worlds - no freedom, fuckton of washing up. I despise America's pumping culture and regard it as one of those ridiculous things where women have to do it all under the guise of having it all.

(Disclaimer: other women's mileage may vary! I do tend to overreact when pumping is discussed because the triple feed (feed, pump, bottle) is one of my least favourite of many unpleasant memories of my first birth and postpartum period. But seriously, I cannot see ANY advantages it offers to the mother - it's all about sacrificing yourself for baby's good.)

@PerspicaciousGreen

Also, pumping is fucking awful. I will jump down the throat of anyone who suggests I shackle myself to a pump "for baby" while getting the absolute worst of worlds - no freedom, fuckton of washing up. I despise America's pumping culture and regard it as one of those ridiculous things where women have to do it all under the guise of having it all.

(Disclaimer: other women's mileage may vary! I do tend to overreact when pumping is discussed because the triple feed (feed, pump, bottle) is one of my least favourite of many unpleasant memories of my first birth and postpartum period. But seriously, I cannot see ANY advantages it offers to the mother - it's all about sacrificing yourself for baby's good.)

Oh god, I absolutely agree with this. The lack of output from a pump was used as proof I wasn’t producing enough milk and it was rubbish. Pumping made me absolutely miserable, tense and jittery and I didn’t respond to it in any positive way for milk production.

I concur @PerspicaciousGreen there were occasions where I’d pump loads, 200ml every morning after DC had had his first feed of me. Great all good but Jesus Christ it turned into hell, the more I’d stress about how much I was pumping the less I’d pump, and the less that would come out. Like a vicious cycle. I found out after I really needed to be well mentally and physically to get anything out in decent quantities, this goes for DC feeding at the breast too. So when I became exhausted and at rock bottom my supply dipped which caused even more stress/anxiety, the DC wanted to be at the breast more which meant I could do less, it really was awful.

The things like this I didn’t have a clue before, not one person mentioned it, are we supposed to guess? I had to pay someone for help with sleeping and they ended up giving me lots of other useful information.

Agreed. This whole culture of addressing bf issues by putting mother on a strict feed-pump-top up- feed regime is the quickest way to end bf if you ask me.

It’s crazy, absolutely not practical, and doesn’t even help.

Actually feeding more will stimulate supply far more effectively than any mechanical pump.

I hated pumping, but with my first it was pretty much expected:
Pump so others get a turn at feeding
Pump so you don’t have to bf in public
Pump to get them used to bottles so if you want to give one you can.
Pump so you can leave the baby and go out/away

And the worst one-
Pump to give yourself a break.

Yeah, some break I get pumping, washing, sterilising, while someone else sits on their arse on the sofa and feeds the baby. Easier for me to sit on the sofa and feed from source while they make me a cup of tea and get me a sandwich.

@LavenderLollies

Sorry meant to add: there is for sure correlation. But nothing in the data suggests causation. When studies adjust for factors such as socioeconomic background, maternal smoking and maternal weight the findings are more along the lines of babies who are breast fed tend to come from homes where there are other factors to promote a healthy weight later in life. In studies comparing siblings in the same home who were and weren’t bf (with all other factors as similar as possible), there’s been no link found between bf and obesity.

There are some proven short term benefits to breastfeeding for baby. Fewer allergic rashes and gastro disorders, lower risk of necrotising enterocolitis, and a possible lower incidence of ear infections. And a proven benefit to the mother of a reduced risk of some cancers. But that’s it.

Looking back I’m shocked that 90% of the allegedly proven benefits of bf told to us at the nhs feeding class turned out to be woo or ideas long since debunked by further study.

There’s an excellent chapter in the book Cribsheet examining the data and what we know about the benefits of bf if anyone is interested. Very readable but pure evidence based.

You are right on many counts here.

But there often seems to be an assumption that bf has no real long-term impact, which is inaccurate.

For example, there are long-term repercussions at population level that are correlated with NOT breastfeeding, such as increased prevalence of auto-immune conditions. When we deviate from what is biologically expected, of course there will be health repercussions.

I'm not an all-or-nothing bf evangelist or anything; it's just a subject that I know a lot about...

@PerspicaciousGreen I’m still exclusively pumping at 10 months and once you get into the swing of it it’s not so bad, you definitely need hands free pumps so you can get on with other stuff whilst you do it.

Lots of pumps also don’t come with different sized flanges, it’s fine if you have averaged sized nipples but if yours are smaller or bigger they don’t work properly and you won’t get much milk. Really you need to be measured for the right flange size for them to work effectively.

Easier for me to sit on the sofa and feed from source while they make me a cup of tea and get me a sandwich.

😂❤️

The one thing I absolutely knew before I had my baby was that I would not pump. This was after watching someone I knew suffer PND which was definitely partly due to breastfeeding/ pumping issues. I decided before baby was here that I would formula feed rather than pump, because I'd seen it have such a bad effect. (This is not to say people shouldn't pump, I just decided for me it was off the table.)

I did get a Haaka at about 6 weeks and used it to build a "just in case" small freezer stash, so that if I left DD with DH and got delayed somehow we'd know there was something for her. But I don't think that's really the same as properly pumping.

@Etherealhedgehog

Wonderful posts and I sincerely hope those that see them reconsider their use of the term ‘give up’ when it comes to cessation of breastfeeding.

@PerspicaciousGreen

Also, pumping is fucking awful. I will jump down the throat of anyone who suggests I shackle myself to a pump "for baby" while getting the absolute worst of worlds - no freedom, fuckton of washing up. I despise America's pumping culture and regard it as one of those ridiculous things where women have to do it all under the guise of having it all.

(Disclaimer: other women's mileage may vary! I do tend to overreact when pumping is discussed because the triple feed (feed, pump, bottle) is one of my least favourite of many unpleasant memories of my first birth and postpartum period. But seriously, I cannot see ANY advantages it offers to the mother - it's all about sacrificing yourself for baby's good.)

I triple fed for nine long months. I still can’t believe it. It was absolute madness. I had low supply and despite prescription (strong) drugs never made enough and had to over demand via nursing, pumping and bottle feeding along with the drugs to maintain any semblance of a supply. I was sent home from the hospital doing it and just kinda assumed I had to carry on. I bought into the idea that breast is best, that if I was determined enough and didn’t give up I’d be able to do it, that insufficient supply wasn’t really a thing so if I just kept going I’d get it up, that it was my fault because everyone told me it was supply and demand. The cheery HV telling me double pumping would signal I had twins and make my body produce more. None of the advice was safe or appropriate for the 1-5% of women with insufficient supply.

Nobody ever treated me like a person sadly, or asked how I would or was coping with waking up all night every night to pump and nurse and bottle feed, having to spend every baby nap pumping, having to miss social events to pump. I was a wreck and I only finally stopped at 9m as my supply fully evaporated.

Absolute insanity. I genuinely feel I was failed on every count.

I was sent home from the hospital doing it and just kinda assumed I had to carry on

When did you leave the hospital? It seems mad they decided you had low supply, needed drugs and had to pump so early?

It sounds like you got shittier advice than most

Seems like many are having the same two experiences. Either they have the full intention to bf and when faced with challenges are pushed to use formula, or pushed to continue to try and bf. Both without the right support.

I have been really lucky. I gave birth in The Netherlands in November. You get a maternity nurse 9am-5pm at home for about 7 days after the birth. I chose one who was also a Lactation Consultant and helped immensely with bf. We had tongue and tie and low milk supply and it's only thanks to her that I am EBF now. We used donor milk for a few weeks, but I had the right support to continue with my bf journey. My other friends' maternity nurses did lots of cleaning, which mine didn't, but it's the most incredible service as long as you get a good one, which mine certainly was.

@bluebluezoo

I was sent home from the hospital doing it and just kinda assumed I had to carry on

When did you leave the hospital? It seems mad they decided you had low supply, needed drugs and had to pump so early?

It sounds like you got shittier advice than most

I left when DS was two weeks old. We were kept in for four days on the postnatal unit due to birth injuries and complications. In those four days I was EBF but not producing and he starved and wound up with complications from that and then rushed into the neonatal unit. For I think ten days (bit hazy).

Once we landed in the neonatal unit he was obviously on formula as he was starving, but I was also pumping and nursing assuming that I would get my supply up as that’s what I was told. I came home and kept doing it until 7wk postnatal when a lovely doctor finally believed I wasn’t producing or going to produce enough and put me on the drugs.

I always feel a bit sad when I see these 'too much pressure to breast feed' / 'too much pressure to formula feed' type posts. Why not mixed feed? It doesn't have to be an 'all or nothing' solution.

I breastfed all three of my DC for seven months each (didn't want to do any longer and had no guilt whatsoever in 'giving up' at this point) and I loved the breast feeding experience. But I also always used formula when I needed to. With each baby I found, in the early days, that I'd hit a bit of a wall with breastfeeding - reaching that 'Christ, I can't do this any more' feeling that is so horrible - and offering a couple of ounces of formula at this point always gave me a few hours off to get my head (and boobs) together. I was then in much better shape mentally to take a deep breath and carry on with breastfeeding.

I also found that getting into a daily routine of offering one bottle, once a day, was really helpful.

If anything I wish there was more support for mixed feeding as a sensible option for nursing mothers.

So often you read all these doom and gloom reports stating that once a mother 'resorts' to formula it spells 'the end' of breastfeeding. It's such a shame. Obviously if a DC has major allergies, or if there is a specific physical or mental health reason why formula should be avoided, then that's a separate issue. But if not, combination feeding can work really well.

But if not, combination feeding can work really well

It often doesn’t though. It must be brilliant when it works, but for me i tried with my first and it pretty quickly led to him refusing the breast and only taking the bottle. Anecdotally this is what happened to many in my peer group. Plus the worst of both worlds trying to bf and all the washing and sterilising.

Breastfeeding is hard work for babies. It is a risk to try combination feeding, because if it doesn’t work it’s the end of bf. For my second I fidn’t give any bottles at all and we got into the swing of breastfeeding much quicker and easier so I never needed them.

Wonderful posts and I sincerely hope those that see them reconsider their use of the term ‘give up’ when it comes to cessation of breastfeeding.

Think I was the one that mentioned ‘give up’ and there really was no judgment. It was just an observation that most of the mums I knew, stopped between 9 and 11 months. Some were SAHMs, some had gone back to work. Surely everyone gives up eventually!

I also found that getting into a daily routine of offering one bottle, once a day, was really helpful.

Yes, years ago, a friend was advised to give one bottle of formula a day in the evening when here supply was low. She went on to breastfeed her DS for 3 years (unusual in those days). She even had another baby in that time!

I agree totally with the previous posts about pumping. I pumped for about 3 weeks postpartum with my 4th baby, due to a severe tongue tie. At a time when you are physiologically wired to need your baby close to you, instead you are attached to a pump, watching someone else cuddle and feed your baby.

It often doesn’t though. It must be brilliant when it works, but for me i tried with my first and it pretty quickly led to him refusing the breast and only taking the bottle.

I think the poster above was talking about mixed feeding as opposed to pumping. With pumping the baby will be getting bottles anyway.

@CecilyP I totally get that there was no judgement on your part. The term 'giving up' is standard in relation to breastfeeding. My point is, that seems a bit messed up as based on other common usage it would imply either that breastfeeding is a vice (like giving up smoking) or that stopping breastfeeding is a failure (like giving up halfway up Everest). Obviously it's not the former, so in fact it implies that all women who stop breastfeeding are in some way failing, though of course the vast majority of people using the phrase don't intend to say that

[quote sipsmith1]@LavenderLollies It is important to also acknowledge that Cribsheet is written by an economist, not a medical professional and only used data from Randomised Control Trials. Generally these aren’t used to research breastfeeding because they are viewed as unethical by the WHO. As a result small amounts of data are available from them, much larger data sets are available from observations based studies which all major public health bodies use.[/quote]
This isn’t true - Emily Oster specifically talks about the observational studies she uses, and acknowledges there are some very good ones that have a lot of data and can control for confounding factors. Randomised controlled trials are the gold standard for proving causation though - that’s a widely acknowledged fact in science.

Also don’t know why it would be an issue that she’s an economist? The book is not giving medical advice, it’s summarising studies. So a data scientist seems an appropriate person to do that.

Sorry to jump on this, I just think it’s a great book and a great, clear summary of the existing data on breastfeeding benefits.