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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there is too much pressure to formula feed?

481 replies

daffodilsandprimroses · 08/04/2021 15:36

I’ve been considering making this post for a while but was worried about being flamed - I probably will be.

I am definitely not speaking to or about the women who made a choice to formula feed, either from the start or after trying breastfeeding and deciding it wasn’t for them.

I am talking about the women like me who really wanted to breastfeed and tried.

I found the midwives were very quick to leap to pushing formula once breastfeeding wasn’t working. When ds lost weight after birth rather than helping support me to feed him we were put on a feeding plan involving formula.

Why is there no support for breastfeeding?

OP posts:
SnuggyBuggy · 11/04/2021 09:31

I agree. Personally I think we need some sensible advice and discussion of formula antenatally. I don't agree with giving formula companies free reign to advertise but not talking about it all doesn't help. There needs to be information on when formula is needed and how to use it safely.

I remember being asked what formula I wanted giving to DD on NICU and thinking fuck knows, I've just been told to breastfeed. No one warned us about e. sakazakii either.

I don't get the argument that because the majority of mums FF it's no secret. I didn't know any FF mums when I was giving birth, I didn't have any of their knowledge on what brand and how to use it safely.

LavenderLollies · 11/04/2021 09:32

@LuaDipa

I bf both of mine for 6 months and found my midwives (in two different areas) to be really helpful. I think they were also really helpful to the ff women on my ward. There was no judgement either way which surprised me given everything you read.

What I will say is that I find some of the bf support groups to be very dogmatic, tbh. They would have you believe that exclusive bf is the only way, no dummies, no bottles, no middle ground which is absolute bollocks. This all or nothing attitude is what puts a lot of women off.

This is my experience too. I joined my local La Leche League after an incredibly difficult start to bf (low supply, starvation, baby spending his first two weeks in the neonatal unit as a result being treated for complications arising from starvation, my supply issues weren’t believed until he was dangerously poorly, almost ended up with brain damage). I was combo feeding as I simply didn’t produce enough for my son’s survival.

I shared a hello post and the first comment was my local ‘leader’ saying they absolutely couldn’t advise or condone formula use under any circumstances as it causes cancer.

I was gobsmacked. Thankfully knew it was bullshit and quit and carried on on my own. But someone else who wasn’t as educated on the evidence around infant feeding could have been absolutely floored by that. What a thing to say to a new mum who is giving formula because her baby was almost brain damaged due to low supply. It’s like a weird clique where you have to be all or nothing or you’re not allowed, it puts so many people off.

Women and mothers are more than a pair of tits to be milked ffs.

LavenderLollies · 11/04/2021 09:33

@SnuggyBuggy

I agree. Personally I think we need some sensible advice and discussion of formula antenatally. I don't agree with giving formula companies free reign to advertise but not talking about it all doesn't help. There needs to be information on when formula is needed and how to use it safely.

I remember being asked what formula I wanted giving to DD on NICU and thinking fuck knows, I've just been told to breastfeed. No one warned us about e. sakazakii either.

I don't get the argument that because the majority of mums FF it's no secret. I didn't know any FF mums when I was giving birth, I didn't have any of their knowledge on what brand and how to use it safely.

Our ‘nhs feeding class’ (feeding was in the title) was solely about bf. Nothing about choosing a formula or safe formula prep. We were really exhausted and devastated trying to learn how to make formula and sanitise bottles etc.

The midwife we asked in the hospital said they’re told not to bring up formula in case it ‘puts people off bf or makes formula seem like an easier option’

So much bf advocacy and ‘support’ treats women like they’re thick idiots.

LavenderLollies · 11/04/2021 09:38

Having breast fed, formula fed, combo fed, pumped, and attended various support groups online and IRL I’ve come to realise that a lot of people go into becoming bf supporters not because they believe in supporting other women and care about bf, but because they enjoy the feeling or sense of superiority that makes them ‘better’ for breastfeeding. Little do they know it’s not something you can necessarily will yourself into doing, it’s not a personal virtue, yes it can be hard work but any one of them could have faced insufficient supply and been unable to do it no matter how much they wanted to. But there’s this idea that if you try hard enough you’ll be able to do it.

We all deserve better, evidence based, and non biased infant feeding support tbh.

Foolintherain · 11/04/2021 09:40

Women and mothers are more than a pair of tits to be milked ffs

Absolutely this.

LavenderLollies · 11/04/2021 09:44

@Foolintherain

Women and mothers are more than a pair of tits to be milked ffs

Absolutely this.

It’s really heartbreaking when you realise after birth that’s all you are in the eyes of the majority of breastfeeding ‘advocates’ and ‘supporters’.

It took me a long time to persuade myself that my value as my son’s mother lay in more than how many ounces of milk I could squeeze out of my bruised breasts eight times per day. I still get pangs of pain when I see friends who managed to bf longer than I did.

I wish we told all pregnant women that although chances are if you want to bf and have the right support you’ll be able to, not everyone can, and that’s okay. It’s not your fault.

IdblowJonSnow · 11/04/2021 09:48

Your experience was very far from mine OP but yanbu to want support. It's horrible and stressful to watch your newborn be hungry and upset.
Not FF my firstborn straightaway is still a source of regret to me, many years later.

LavenderLollies · 11/04/2021 09:55

@IdblowJonSnow

Your experience was very far from mine OP but yanbu to want support. It's horrible and stressful to watch your newborn be hungry and upset. Not FF my firstborn straightaway is still a source of regret to me, many years later.
Apologies to everyone reading as I’ve taken over the thread this last page. But wanted to say I hear you, I feel the same. Not ff my little boy from the start is one of my only and biggest regrets. I’m so thankful and lucky he ended up surviving unscathed and is now a happy healthy boy but I have so much regret at allowing myself to be gaslit into starving him almost to the point of brain damage.

People talk a lot about regretting formula feeding and regretting not having ‘tried harder’ to bf. But few are willing to talk about the fact that breastfeeding was a massive regret.

Username54789129671 · 11/04/2021 10:09

Our area is really pushing breast feeding on expecting mothers. The new part of the hospital (consultant led) was very good and supportive of it and gave plenty of help and encouragement.
I was then transferred to the midwife led unit in the old part of the hospital and they tried to get me to formula feed because I had a c section and couldn't get out of bed myself to pick my baby up to feed it . They also gave almost the exact opposite advice as the consultant led unit about everything else.
I had a very good community midwife and there was plenty of support available once you got out of hospital as well.

I think it just really depends which members of staff you have to deal with. Some are far far better than others

OolieMacdoolie · 11/04/2021 10:44

Not saying that’s the case for OP but that’s why I made the point that a midwife’s goal is a healthy baby, the wishes and goals of their parents are secondary to that. As it should be.

Absolutely, the baby’s health is paramount - but I think sometimes the midwives’ goals are too short term. It’s not their fault because they have limited time and resources, but the strong impression I had when my baby was born and struggled to latch (and showed no interest in feeding) was that they could ‘solve the problem’ in the short term by encouraging me to switch to formula, and therefore not require any more help, when the best thing for me and my baby was to work through our initial difficulties until we reached a place where breastfeeding was easy.

Luckily I had amazing external support, but without that I would likely have succumbed to the pressure to formula feed, which wasn’t what I personally wanted, and wasn’t the right thing for my baby.

I have no judgment towards FF mothers and I think it’s pretty shocking that there isn’t widespread advice on formula feeding available before birth. I believe women can make the right choices for themselves with the information available, and it’s infantilising of the NHS to keep information about FF out of their literature for fear of encouraging women to FF. But I think that when resources are stretched and midwives overworked, formula is too often pushed as a panacea for all feeding issues when with the right support for the women who wanted it, these could be overcome.

Ultimately, too much pressure is put on women whichever way you look at it. Breastfeeding is really pushed before birth - you get non stop information about how breast is best, how it helps you bond, and how formula can’t replicate mother’s milk etc. But once your baby is born and breastfeeding doesn’t instantly work perfectly, the quickest and easiest way to fix the issue and get you off the books is to have you move to formula. So women are left feeling like they have failed and let their babies down, because they weren’t given the necessary support to do the thing the NHS told them was really important. It’s a catch-22 that does no mother any good!

Vursayles · 11/04/2021 10:50

@LavenderLollies your experience sounds extremely similar to mine, though thank goodness I had intervention early enough so that my daughter received formula before things got dangerous (only thanks to one, straight-talking midwife).

I know how long it takes to heal from it all, and like you said if I’d had just one person say “you’ve tried really hard but it’s not your fault you don’t produce enough” it wouldn’t have made a big difference.

Tittie · 11/04/2021 10:50

[quote ParadiseLaundry]@Tittie 'There's also other ways of formula feeding which are less likely to negatively impact the breastfeeding relationship, like supplemental nursing systems, and paced bottle feeding. Again, no mention from HCP when I was struggling. I only know about these because of the lactation consultant.'

I totally agree. I remember the exact moment I lost all faith in the system. I had been provided with a supplemental nursing system when DS was a few months old by the (very good) hospital I had had him at. I was visited by two 'breastfeeding support' nurses from the HV team (who had used the term 'experts' to describe themselves in their first visit when DS was born) and I told them that I had been provided with an SNS by the hospital.

They looked at each other and one asked the other if she has heard of this. They both said they they hadn't. I was then asked to show it to them and explain how it worked. These were apparently the most knowledgeable breastfeeding support workers in my district and this was after months of what I suspected at the time, but know for a fact now was utterly shit and damaging advice.[/quote]
I'm gobsmacked! As @PerspicaciousGreen said, it's fine for them to admit when they're out of their depth and refer you on to someone specialised, but these were supposed to be the experts!

It makes me so angry. I believe passionately that mothers should choose whatever way of feeding works best for them. But 80% of women in the uk start off wanting to breastfeed, yet the number doing so plummets as the weeks go on, and we have the worst breastfeeding rates in the world. In the world! When you read some of the sorry stories in this thread, it's not surprising why.

And THEN, if you're lucky enough to keep going, you get to a year or so (only 0.5% of women in the uk manage to) and people start asking when you're going to stop, and it starts to become seen as icky and weird. We can't win! I'm meant to be going on a day out in public this week, now it's allowed, and I'm already worrying about how and where I'll be able to feed my toddler. While I had no problem bf a baby in public, it's a bit different with a toddler. I'm probably part of the problem, I know I should just do it and not worry about it. But I've never ever seen another toddler nursing before, so I feel self conscious!

bluebluezoo · 11/04/2021 11:42

It’s not selfish to want to EBF. It can become selfish if baby is suffering EBF and their parents are unwilling to supplement

The issue I found is that very few people have the knowledge to correctly help with breastfeeding.

It is also difficult to know what “suffering” in a newborn is. I have heard people say a newborn is “starving” because it cried when it was put down after a feed, and obviously wasn’t getting enough. Rather than babies just liking to be held and sucking pretty much constantly being normal to stimulate supply.

Normally if there is an “issue”- crying, feeding a lot, unsettled, the first step is to supplement with formula. That or an unsustainable (and frankly bonkers, imo) strict regime of feeding, expressing, and topping up every couple of hours.

Generally this will “solve” the issue as now baby doesn’t have to work as hard to stimulate milk, can take more in one feed, and formula sits in the stomach so they are fuller for longer.

The first steps should be checking for tongue tie, skin to skin, different holds, breast compressions, mothers diet, all those tips and tricks. Making mothers feel comfortable with doing nothing but establishing feeding. That is more important than making endless visitors cups of tea while they insist on holding a restless baby and whinge about you feeding again and they could feed the baby if you got a bottle.

Also i feel clinical observation is often lacking- everything is often based on that number on the scale. By the time is drops enough to indicate a problem it’s too late to try fixing it. Obs should be done for hydration, urine, poo- a simple diary of wet/dirty nappies for example. You can smell concentrated urine, and note the colour and consistency. If a baby genuinely isn’t feeding well they hydration will be the first indicator. But nobody checks that, they piss around weighing and worry the baby has dropped too much weight too quickly when in fact it just had a massive poo.

daffodilsandprimroses · 11/04/2021 11:50

It still makes me sad. But I’ve learned to live with it.

As an aside I do not mind people suggesting, as one friend to another, formula. My ire is for the so called professionals who did not help.

OP posts:
SnuggyBuggy · 11/04/2021 11:52

This is where I think honesty about what the early days are really like with a cluster feeder and how long it can take for them to get to the point where they can go the expected 4 hours. No wonder people think their babies are starving or their milk isn't enough.

WaitingForNormality · 11/04/2021 11:56

I actually found the complete opposite.

MW and HV continuously pushing BF even when it is clear that the mother is suffering (mentally, physically) and baby is not thriving. No advice given about how to actually FF either - for 1st timers making up a bottle properly and figuring out how to actually FF when you choose to is a bit of a minefield of conflicting advice and information. So whilst I agree BF support is lacking, I'd also say the say for support for FF.

Cam2020 · 11/04/2021 11:56

Sure. Starve a baby because the mother 'desperately' wants to bf.

daffodilsandprimroses · 11/04/2021 11:56

Sorry cam, who said that?

OP posts:
OolieMacdoolie · 11/04/2021 11:58

@Cam2020

Sure. Starve a baby because the mother 'desperately' wants to bf.
Literally nobody is suggesting this.
daffodilsandprimroses · 11/04/2021 12:06

I think that can be a common and horrible misconception of breastfeeding women.

It’s for us, purely to satisfy some desire - for what I don’t know.

It’s hard to articulate exactly why breastfeeding matters to me but I’ll have a go!

Breastfed babies are less likely to be overweight or obese in adulthood because they learn to stop when full: bottle fed babies tend to finish the bottle. Weight has always been tricky for me. I’ve spent most of my life a fairly healthy BMI, although recently pregnancy and lockdown really saw my weight soar. But it’s never been easy for me. I have friends who just eat when hungry! (I know, imagine ...!) I wanted my child to have this.

It is cheap and convenient. We just buy ready made formula - I honestly don’t have the patience to boil kettles and wait for it to cool etc with such a young baby. But even so it’s a pain remembering to take bottles and enough formula when our and about. In many ways I’m just too LAZY to bottle feed! So I guess that is selfish in a way!

Another selfish reason is that breastfeeding helps contribute to postpartum weight loss.

Breast milk is always ‘right’ for baby - formula milk is always the same. Breast milk is higher in water content when it’s hot and so on.

But do you see how crazy it is I am feeling the need to justify wanting to feed my baby in the way intended?

OP posts:
Streamlinerose · 11/04/2021 12:11

@LavenderLollies I don’t think I put it as succinctly as @OolieMacdoolie put it, my apologies. The thread was started because OP and many others since have expressed that they found pressure to FF when they explicitly said they wanted to or were BFing.

I’ve done both BF and FF, I don’t have strong views on it, but you saying that I do because I’m pointing out biology* is, again, a highlight of the times. I switched when I wanted to and didn’t feel bad. I feel awful for women who do regardless of which way they choose to feed their children.

A woman who is breastfeeding and then subsequently asking for support if required and being insistent on continuing breastfeeding isn’t some hippy/selfish/goal orientated thing to do(that’s not what I’ve interpreted from your posts I mean from others I’ve read/heard).. it’s just how we have even able to develop as a species in various location across the globe.

IMO it doesn’t matter why a woman will choose to FF at the beginning middle or end, if that choice has been made then cool, none of mine or anybody else business AT ALL. But what I do care about is the fierce denial of biology and science. Formula isn’t the only tool I use as an adult, I could get my own calcium from leafy greens but I don’t I use milk products (damn cheese is just godly). I could have got lung/mouth cancer from when I smoked, I still did it for a few years. I have my DC a chicken nugget the other day, whaaaat, USA FDA says that’s a class 1 carcinogen.. I still gave it knowing that and will again too.

Im not comparing formula to those activities I’m just highlighting that as humans we do lots of things we know isn’t optimum for us** but the convenience/pleasure/medicine wins. I can’t fathom a reason why these threads and the topic in general creates such an enormous fierce divide like the alternative is the enemy, I’m the same mother now I FF that I was when I BF’d and when I pumped and when I gave a dummy and when I gave solids. At every single turn I was told to switch to formula when it wasn’t necessary, my child wasn’t starving. It’s as if you choose to BF you’re some kind of martyr that looks down your nose at everyone, I’m sure some do, like all walks of life but none I’ve met.

The poster earlier on lots of pages back who said ‘one bottle of formula milk changes the gut flora’ which isn’t a positive or negative statement, that didn’t stop cries of ‘you’re making me feel guilty’ ‘that makes me feel shit’ ‘where’s the science to back up damage of one bottle of formula’ which are not only not what the poster said or inferred they’re totally personal feelings that have come from somewhere other than that poster sharing a neutral piece of information.

A thread a while back from a new mum with a baby in nicu asking for help increasing supply whilst she awaited the infant feeding specialist at the hospital explained the hospital had offered donor breast milk, cue comments saying it was ‘disgusting they’re offering you that because it’s just putting extra pressure on you’. Why do these people perceive donor breast milk as more triggering than donor cow milk? How have we got there? A healthy baby is at the absolute top of every new parents wants (I hope).

My own fathers face when I mentioned I would be trying to supply some milk for the donor bank when I’ve established BF with DC2 was nothing short of a picture, literally turned his nose up in front of my face. What message does all this give to mothers who want to use human milk to feed their babies?

I totally agree with pretty much everything you’ve said, when I’ve spent time on Facebook groups for BF some of the information can be questionable, I don’t think some of their responses are great. I asked for advice once because I’d stopped pumping as much, DC hadn’t gained barely any weight in a fortnight, he seemed ‘dry’ for want of a better word but nappy output was fine. Do you know what the peer supported said(?): ‘pumping has no reflection on your supply’. I knew that, but that’s why I’d included the lack of weight gain and other things in my post. Nevertheless they trotted out a useless piece of information that if I’d have just blindly listened to it we may have been in the situation lots of women find themselves in.

Breast is best message is ok as a general campaign but certainly not as part of individual antenatal care, that simply has to be based on each woman’s circumstances.

Anyway I’m getting too invested, I’ve just seen a lot of comments about how I choose to use my tits for their actual purpose on MN and it grinds my gears but I’ll probably stay off them moving forward.

*I’m aware that some women’s breasts can’t make enough/any, however those numbers are minuscule in comparison. Or so I’m led to believe by the relevant departments.

**again, I’m aware that FF is in fact optimum if there is a medical reason mum is unable to BF whether that be physically or mentally.

daffodilsandprimroses · 11/04/2021 12:22

streamline I would like to thank you for that post because it sums up in an exceptionally articulate way exactly what I’ve been trying to express (pardon the pun.)

OP posts:
PerspicaciousGreen · 11/04/2021 13:39

@Tittie THEN, if you're lucky enough to keep going, you get to a year or so (only 0.5% of women in the uk manage to

Is there a reliable graph anywhere of when women in the UK stop BF? I BF both of mine til they were about ten months old. That was the point when they could drink formula out of a cup sat up at the table and were big and wriggly enough that BF was just zero fun for anyone. But "only 0.5% of women are still BF at 1yo" is a tiny snapshot. I'd love to know when exactly women tend to stop, as it's a different story if it's when baby is six weeks old vs ten months old.

I find the statistics gathering on BF vs FF very binary. Many women mix feed or switch between sparse data gathering points. No one knows how I fed my babies between their six week check and their one year check. The record will say BF at six weeks and FF at one year but that's not very helpful.

LavenderLollies · 11/04/2021 13:50

Breastfed babies are less likely to be overweight or obese in adulthood because they learn to stop when full: bottle fed babies tend to finish the bottle. Weight has always been tricky for me. I’ve spent most of my life a fairly healthy BMI, although recently pregnancy and lockdown really saw my weight soar. But it’s never been easy for me. I have friends who just eat when hungry! (I know, imagine ...!) I wanted my child to have this.

There is no evidence actually that breastfeeding contributes to a lower risk of obesity in adulthood. That’s been debunked. Along with the idea that it helps with IQ, or bonding. Not surprised you’ve been told this though, we were told lots of inaccurate info about bf by trained professionals. Some of it just pure nonsense without anything behind it at all.

Somethingsnappy · 11/04/2021 13:53

@PerspicaciousGreen. I can't find a graph (in a rush), but the figures for the UK currently, are that about 40% of women are BF at 6 weeks, 34% at 6 months and 0.5% at 12 months. But this includes babies who are receiving any breastmilk at all. The figures for exclusive breastfeeding would in fact be much lower.