To think there is too much pressure to formula feed?

[daffodilsandprimroses]

I’ve been considering making this post for a while but was worried about being flamed - I probably will be.

I am definitely not speaking to or about the women who made a choice to formula feed, either from the start or after trying breastfeeding and deciding it wasn’t for them.

I am talking about the women like me who really wanted to breastfeed and tried.

I found the midwives were very quick to leap to pushing formula once breastfeeding wasn’t working. When ds lost weight after birth rather than helping support me to feed him we were put on a feeding plan involving formula.

Why is there no support for breastfeeding?

@LavenderLollies. I don't think those claims have been debunked. But you're right that (from memory) the link has not been firmly established yet. Debunked and not yet established are very different things of course. But you're absolutely right that some of the claims are told as fact, when in fact they have not yet been conclusively proven.

P. S. Although this is from memory and I can't remember for sure about the obesity one. Certainly what I wrote is true of some of the claims so far (though some claims are indeed conclusively proven).

Sorry meant to add: there is for sure correlation. But nothing in the data suggests causation. When studies adjust for factors such as socioeconomic background, maternal smoking and maternal weight the findings are more along the lines of babies who are breast fed tend to come from homes where there are other factors to promote a healthy weight later in life. In studies comparing siblings in the same home who were and weren’t bf (with all other factors as similar as possible), there’s been no link found between bf and obesity.

There are some proven short term benefits to breastfeeding for baby. Fewer allergic rashes and gastro disorders, lower risk of necrotising enterocolitis, and a possible lower incidence of ear infections. And a proven benefit to the mother of a reduced risk of some cancers. But that’s it.

Looking back I’m shocked that 90% of the allegedly proven benefits of bf told to us at the nhs feeding class turned out to be woo or ideas long since debunked by further study.

There’s an excellent chapter in the book Cribsheet examining the data and what we know about the benefits of bf if anyone is interested. Very readable but pure evidence based.

[quote Somethingsnappy]@LavenderLollies. I don't think those claims have been debunked. But you're right that (from memory) the link has not been firmly established yet. Debunked and not yet established are very different things of course. But you're absolutely right that some of the claims are told as fact, when in fact they have not yet been conclusively proven.[/quote]
Good point, and you’re right. It’s more accurate to say that there is no existence to prove a link. There might be evidence for all kinds of things but until it’s there it’s important not to state it as fact. It’s important to share when a lot of the info given to women to pressure them into bf is based on outdated studies when newer more up to date info Is available.

Yes, I've seen it written by the NHS that breastfeeding promotes maternal weight loss too. And well it might for some people. But this also has not been conclusively proven.

I think respiratory health outcomes could also be added to your list, @LavenderLollies, of those where a difference has firmly be established? But again, from memory, so apologies if I have that wrong.

[quote Somethingsnappy]@PerspicaciousGreen. I can't find a graph (in a rush), but the figures for the UK currently, are that about 40% of women are BF at 6 weeks, 34% at 6 months and 0.5% at 12 months. But this includes babies who are receiving any breastmilk at all. The figures for exclusive breastfeeding would in fact be much lower.[/quote]
Interesting, thanks! But I'd still love to have more detail about what happens between six months and one year - at what point and why do women choose to stop?

I was shocked to find out how slight the "advantages" of BF were - those that weren't woo. "Your baby will be cleverer and healthier if you BF!" (And then the small print is that they spend on average one fewer days with the sniffles in the first eighteen years of their life.)

@LavenderLollies It is important to also acknowledge that Cribsheet is written by an economist, not a medical professional and only used data from Randomised Control Trials. Generally these aren’t used to research breastfeeding because they are viewed as unethical by the WHO. As a result small amounts of data are available from them, much larger data sets are available from observations based studies which all major public health bodies use.

I felt the complete opposite. The way I was treated by the midwives for not wanting to breast feed was awful and I was made to feel like a crap mum

Haven't read the whole thread or all the responses as there are so many.

But I found it the complete opposite that all the emphasis was on breastfeeding and if you couldn't do it your baby went without as they avoided assist or advise with formula.

My baby screamed and screamed for days and they wouldn't let me leave until it was established I ended up developeing mastitis not their fault but I was horrendous pain I've got permanent scaring which has caused tightening of tissue in my breasts which has pulled my nipples inwards it was that bad.

She got some colostrum as they hand expressed me into a cup and fed her that way but I was in agony and so was my baby I sent my partner out to get the ready made formula and bring it back as id had enough of the situation!
My daughter ended up losing loads of weight so I was glad we switched when we did.

I'm pregnant again and although I had a horrendous time last time, I am planning to try breastfeeging again as this baby maybe be different, I'm having it at a different place and may not have the same issues as before. The scaring may mean it isn't possible but I will at least try. I have ordered the ready made bottles with teats for in my baby bag, I hope I won't need them but after last time I feel it's important mentally that I have the option to take control of the situation if needed.

Did they not advise you to express xx

My hv said it wasn't true that you could over feed a ff baby as they would just spit out the bottle or the milk if they've had enough. I was breastfed myself and can't eat just one biscuit and will sometimes eat to the point of being uncomfortable.

Even with more support it might not have made for a different outcome. It just doesn't for lots of people. And it's always been the same. We are lucky to have formula as look at what they resorted to in the past with wet nurses and feeding babies animal milk from unsterile cups etc.

Reading these stories it makes me wonder are there any consistent policies for when formula is recommended to a baby? It's interesting how similar some of these stories sound yet some felt pressured to FF and others to keep BF

Reading these stories it makes me wonder are there any consistent policies for when formula is recommended to a baby? It's interesting how similar some of these stories sound yet some felt pressured to FF and others to keep BF

The consistency seems to be in pushing the opposite to what the woman wants, rather than supporting her choice.

In reality no useful help or support, other than recommending the other choice as it’s easier.

Want to ff? Well you should be breastfeeding so we aren’t going to give you any help with formula.

Want to breastfeed? Well obviously you’re finding bf too hard if you’re asking for help so give formula as it’s easier than us actually helping you bf.

I found the opposite

I had differing experiences with each of my babies.

I think it’s possible that actually, there wasn’t pressure either way but in the fog of hormones I couldn’t take anything without seeing/feeling it as pressure or criticism.

I was better with my second, cracked on with bf and ignored pressure to top up just to make a graph happy, because I had confidence in myself to know what a healthy baby looked like. Still feeding her at 18 months, ebf no1 to 10 days then combi fed to 7 months.

I think bf rates drop so sharply after 6 months as women return to work. Expressing is a faff and not always made easy by working environments.

You’re probably right @Htp320 there’s not really a way of quantifying it either, I saw ‘pressure’ from my family as in them repeatedly telling me FF was what I should do with what ever I said to them, even if it was just explaining what BFing was like in terms of more times per 24 hours. Every turn ‘you don’t need to do this now, you’ve done the best already’ (DC was 2 weeks old), ‘you’re doing it for yourself’ or ‘don’t give up dairy and put yourself through that just give formula’.

It was like a torrent of FF advocation even if the conversation didn’t require it, not that I did ask for specific FF advice anyway but you get what I mean.

It’s hard to say what one woman feels is ‘pressure’, another may not feel the same. It seems quite stark here though there are lots of women who seem to feel it one way or another.

@LookMoreCloselier

My hv said it wasn't true that you could over feed a ff baby as they would just spit out the bottle or the milk if they've had enough. I was breastfed myself and can't eat just one biscuit and will sometimes eat to the point of being uncomfortable.

Even with more support it might not have made for a different outcome. It just doesn't for lots of people. And it's always been the same. We are lucky to have formula as look at what they resorted to in the past with wet nurses and feeding babies animal milk from unsterile cups etc.

Yes, there’s this assumption that the bf relationship coming to an end is a failure that would have definitely been prevented if only there’d been more ‘support’, which isn’t necessarily the case. All of the support in the world can’t resolve some feeding issues. And there is never acknowledgement that for some women it isn’t a failure at all, they gave it a shot and it wasn’t right for them for any number of reasons, so they made the switch to formula which was better for them and their baby. Of course some people wanted badly to bf and ended up stopping due to lack of proper support. That happens. But we also need to be honest and admit that ceasing bf isn’t always like that, sometimes it’s a positive happy decision towards a feeding method that is more suited to that mother/baby dyad and a relief, even a cause for celebration. But this isn’t mentioned because we must be encouraged to see formula as the worst case scenario and an always negative scenario. Womens’ agency and preference is disregarded.

@SnuggyBuggy NICE guidance states that at 10% weight loss baby (or not having reached birth weight by three weeks) needs to be assessed, with the idea that they don’t fall below that. You may be able to provide support and continue EBF if the problem was something that can be resolved, for example poor latch and inadequate transfer. But in many cases it’s necessary to supplement so baby doesn’t continue to lose weight, or if their health is being seriously impacted.

It’s hard to say what one woman feels is ‘pressure’, another may not feel the same. It seems quite stark here though there are lots of women who seem to feel it one way or another.

My wish is for infant feeding support to be not biased one way or another, and for clinicians to take the time to find out how the mother would like to feed and then provide compassionate support to achieve that, without judgment or shame. People who want to EBF should be given proper, evidence based support and guidance, and people who want to formula feed should be given proper, evidence based support and guidance. We need to start feeding conversations with ‘how are you planning to feed your baby?’ instead of assuming one or the other. And to be honest about the evidenced benefits and drawbacks of each method (and combo feeding). So many people are horrified when bf is too difficult or impossible for them or takes a huge toll as they weren’t told about the fact that bf can have some major downsides.

Nobody mentioned formula or breastfeeding to me. But when I struggled with breastfeeding in hospital the support worker who came round laughed at me and was never seen again. My husband went out to buy formula in the middle of the night the next night while I lay at home in tears because I couldn't do it. I was embarrassed to tell the midwife I'd switched to formula but she didn't care. If I wasn't such a wreck when in the hospital I'd have complained about the breastfeeding support woman.

Somethingsnappy

@PerspicaciousGreen. I can't find a graph (in a rush), but the figures for the UK currently, are that about 40% of women are BF at 6 weeks, 34% at 6 months and 0.5% at 12 months. But this includes babies who are receiving any breastmilk at all. The figures for exclusive breastfeeding would in fact be much lower

I think Perspicacious was wondering if there are figures for when those giving up between 6 months and a year actually give up . Have to say that, anecdotally, I knew loads who gave up between 9 and 11 months.

I thought it was the very opposite....mind you, it's been a while for me so I am def not up to date but I thought 'breast is best' mantra never died.

Funnily enough, I've been thinking about making the opposite post for a while but haven't because I can't be bothered with the getting flamed. My experience has been the polar opposite. Every single healthcare professional I came across assumed I would want to EBF at all costs. I recognise that I was very lucky to receive a lot of support that enabled me to do so (not doubting your experience at all, I get the impression it's a bit of a postcode lottery, which absolutely should not be the case).

We really struggled with tongue tie and resultant low supply and slow weight gain and it was a good ten weeks before feeding started going well. I stuck at it because there was always one more thing to try, and in large part because everyone assumed I would, but feeding troubles completely dominated the newborn period, with a knock-on effect on other things, and whilst it did come right for us in the end, if I have another I wouldn't persist with crap feeding for as long as I did. For many women, pressure to breastfeed at all costs is the first of many, many occasions that it is assumed that they will willingly martyr themselves to motherhood, and from a feminist perspective I think it's incredibly problematic.

BUT, I don't doubt your experience at all and you should have had more support. Basically, healthcare professionals should be presenting women with the facts, and a balanced view, and practical support to feed whatever way they choose. It really shouldn't be complicated. But somehow it's become this giant ideological bla and as a result lots of women are missing out on crucial support to feed their babies in whatever way works best for them.

Sorry you didn’t get the support you wanted.

My experience is they pushed breastfeeding very hard, and if baby wasn’t gaining weight fast enough you were told to use a breast pump (sometimes lent by the hospital or clinic) to express and increase your milk supply, and to feed expressed milk in bottles between putting baby on the breast.

This was before the pandemic though. I guess midwives have less time now and bf support groups stopped. So if a baby isn’t gaining weight they have a duty of care to inform you breastfeeding isn’t working and suggest formula. I’m assuming they advising a breast pump and different ways to help baby latch first?

@CecilyP

Somethingsnappy

@PerspicaciousGreen. I can't find a graph (in a rush), but the figures for the UK currently, are that about 40% of women are BF at 6 weeks, 34% at 6 months and 0.5% at 12 months. But this includes babies who are receiving any breastmilk at all. The figures for exclusive breastfeeding would in fact be much lower

I think Perspicacious was wondering if there are figures for when those giving up between 6 months and a year actually give up . Have to say that, anecdotally, I knew loads who gave up between 9 and 11 months.

Can we please not use the term 'giving up' in relation to women who stop breastfeeding, particularly after six months? That term might make sense for women who want to breastfeed but lack the support to continue, but after six months I suspect a significant portion of women are stopping because they don't want to anymore, because it's not working for them or their family, often but not always for work related reasons. 'Giving up' implies failure, and a woman deciding to change how she feeds her baby for whatever reason is not failing, she's exercising her agency to be more than just a baby feeding machine.

Sadly I have bitter experience of this twice in a supposed Breadt Feeding friendly hospital. The 1st time I was guild tripled in formula as dd1 was apparently jaundiced. Dd2 I was stronger and persevered with mixed feeding but one of the neonatal nurses was vile. We were clearly a major inconvenience to her being admitted with low weight on day 5. She withheld a breast pump. Only got one on shift change. I should have complained