To think there is too much pressure to formula feed?

[daffodilsandprimroses]

I’ve been considering making this post for a while but was worried about being flamed - I probably will be.

I am definitely not speaking to or about the women who made a choice to formula feed, either from the start or after trying breastfeeding and deciding it wasn’t for them.

I am talking about the women like me who really wanted to breastfeed and tried.

I found the midwives were very quick to leap to pushing formula once breastfeeding wasn’t working. When ds lost weight after birth rather than helping support me to feed him we were put on a feeding plan involving formula.

Why is there no support for breastfeeding?

[quote SnuggyBuggy]@JenerationH it's definitely not just you, it's always been a huge problem with discussing infant feeding.

I think in general we do a poor job talking about risk when it comes to decisions for babies. I'd normally say knowledge is power but as a mum it often feels like all threats and no nuance.

Take safe sleeping, you can't cosleep because it's really dangerous but you can't let them cry it out before x months because you'll scar them for life but you must make sure you don't accidentally fall asleep holding them because I can tell you a story of a baby who died that way.

What good is that? How does it help me come to a decision? Am I really going to be capable of an academic meta-analysis of the literature on that amount of sleep?[/quote]
You're absolutely right that we do a very poor job of talking about risk when it comes to babies, and we treat new parents like idiots.

I don't think everyone should cosleep but I am very vocal about the FACTS about the risks of co-sleeping because information is deliberately fudged and withheld to scare people. I delightedly coslept with my second because I felt I had correctly assessed the risks for us and that the risk of her dying in bed was miniscule and the risk of me getting severe PND through lack of sleep and throwing her down the stairs was actually higher.

Same with feeding. You're not "allowed" to look someone in the eye and say "yes, formula might increase the risk of them getting asthma but I actually am OK with that". (I can't think of an equivalent one for BF, sorry!) People go nuts - "don't you want to do everything to give your baby the best start in life?!???" No, not everything . Tried that with baby #1 and it sent me absolutely insane. I actually exist and matter too, and I am OK with making some choices which will be less-than-scientifically-optimal in order to do what's best for our family as a whole.

What I find bizarre is that no one either at NCT or the MWs presented mix feeding as a viable option. In my overwhelmed new parent state I thought it was a binary choice.

I FF both my kids. It seems like the most important thing at the time but it really really doesn’t need to be a big deal/lifestyle choice. Fed is best. Content(ish) mums are better than super stressed ones.

Like many women, it was the opposite for me. I felt so unbelievably pressured and judged into breast feeding. I tried my hardest, but I was in agony, my daughter was screaming because she was hungry. I was on the hospital ward for days, left alone most of the time and ignored when I asked for painkillers and water because they wouldn't let me go until they had seen her feed. I asked if I gave her formula instead could I please go home? This was pretty much ignored, and they just kept getting different midwives to come in and try and tell me how I was holding her wrong, or not being forceful enough, being too forceful etc. I remember sobbing and sobbing the day after she was born because I couldn't breastfeed her and felt I had already failed her. It would be better if the midwives didn't push either, and actually just asked the mother. My daughter ended up being mixed fed expressed milk and formula. She is healthy and happy, but I still feel that same disappointment in myself because of how much it was drummed into me by midwives and nurses that breastfeeding is the best thing that you can do for your baby.

What I find bizarre is that no one either at NCT or the MWs presented mix feeding as a viable option

Probably because it isn’t a viable option in many cases.

Yes it works for some, but introducing formula feeds in the early days, especially at night, will almost certainly affect supply and lead to fully ff in a relatively short time. Especially when baby downs a bottle yet fusses at the breast because they have to work for let down- this is interpreted as a lack of milk, more formula is given, the body produces less milk, and so on.

This is why ebf until at least 6 weeks before starting to introduce bottles and formula is advised. Get a good supply established first.

Mixed feeding is a great option, but I think you need to be ready to move on to formula anyway, as if it doesn’t work out you will be exclusively ff. i wouldn’t advise it for someone who really wants to bf.

[quote Somethingsnappy]@Twoobles. Your comment that the majority of women in this country use formula because they simply do not want to breastfeed, is basically arguing against the statistics. Over 80% of women in this country set out hoping/intending to breastfeed, but even just 6 weeks later, this percentage is drastically reduced and by six months only about 30% of women are breastfeeding (if I remember thst percentage correctly). So the question needs to be asked, why are women not able to achieve their breastfeeding goals in this country?[/quote]
Do they though? Or do they say that because they feel pressured into saying that? Maybe women feel forced to try it, realise it isn’t for them and then stop. None of that is due to a lack of support- it just wasn’t for them. This certainly was the case for me with my first, and for a great deal of mums in my very large baby group.

Not everything is about bloody “support”. People are allowed to change their minds, especially if they were forced into “trying” it in the first place after being guilt tripped and emotionally manipulated their whole pregnancy.

The whole “breast is best” campaign stinks. All it does is

• make women feel guilty if they don’t want to breast feed
• make women who are on the fence about it pressured into persisting even if they decide early on it isn’t for them
• make women feel like failures if their breastfeeding journey has to end for one reason or another
• gives women who are “extremely passionate” and “breastfeeding only” a stick to beat other women with who either failed or didn’t want to

I’m not anti breastfeeding, but I am totally against emotional manipulation into making women who are already vulnerable, anxious and worried think they have to do something to be a good mum, even if it’s not what they want to do and the process is killing them mentally/physically.

The thing with the lack of mixed feeding advice and binary approach is it can backfire. My first was whisked off to NICU and bottle fed (I had no idea at the time I could have objected or asked for a pump) and with this narrative I could easily have believed that any attempt to breastfeed would be absolutely doomed so not even tried.

[quote Somethingsnappy]@FudgeSundae, yes, I agree. Women should not be 'protected' from the realities of breastfeeding. Better antenatal education would ensure that women were more prepared for the challenges and realities of breastfeeding, both so that decisions can be based on this, but also so they are not blindsided should challenges occur.[/quote]
I actually raised this issue with NCT and with the midwife.
Apparently it's so that it doesn't put women off. Unfortunately target's are set to improve BF rates but little is done to be honest or give women a choice.

As said we were initially put on a feeding plan as I had delayed milk supply due to stress (my DS was in neonatal) but my son reacted terribly to formula he would scream for hours! This probably kept up my determination to BF!

At mum and baby classes there were a few mums who felt they needed to justify FF to me as I fed my DS. I always replied with you do what works best for you as a family and Tbh I don't know how you do it being so organised I barely got out of the house on time and my milk supply was attached to me!

In RL I have never seen a BF mum judge a FF mum or vice versa. The only comments I got for BF was from random people especially feeding a toddler but by that point I couldn't give two hoots! 😂

@Twoobles, although you definitely raise valid points in your last post and I agree with a lot of what you've said, lack of support is still often to blame for many women stopping breastfeeding before they're ready. There have been major cuts in thus department in recent years. Many women can't afford to pay for a private LC or BF counsellor or are cut off from support groups for whatever reason. Additionally, by far the biggest aspect of support is from those around you, family/friends/partner etc. If support from those closest to you is missing for whatever reason (apathy/lack of understanding/experience for example), then breastfeeding really can be remarkably difficult.

"Apparently it's so that it doesn't put women off"

Very ends justify the means I think. I'd like to see pros and cons of both talked about. Some of the realities of formula feeding are also off-putting and it would be better for making a balanced decision to have practical information. I do think it's concerning that many people who take on the high costs of buying formula are the least able to do so.

I also wonder about the accuracy of the statistics about people intending to breastfeed if there is pressure to say you are. It would be better to focus support to breastfeed on those who want to.

Not if someone else does it!
FFS!

But you would have to pay someone else to do it, or someone else would have to spend time feeding that could be spent earning. The consequence is the same.

Interesting OP - my experience was complete opposite. I wanted to breastfeed but DD would never, ever go longer than about 30seconds. Midwives kept encouraging me to keep trying breastfeeding even though it wasn't working, baby was losing a lot of weight and my mental health was plummeting. My baby was hospitalised for jaundice and losing too much weight - I feel quite strongly looking back that a lot of anxiety (which carried on for months) and a week in neo-natural care could have been avoided if midwives had been a bit more realistic rather than saying 'just keep trying, she'll get it eventually'.

I've always breastfed, but the impression I get is you either do formula or breastfeed, which creates a polarised attitude to infant feeding. Why not mix feed? There isn't enough help to enable mix feeding in my opinion.

@bluebluezoo

What I find bizarre is that no one either at NCT or the MWs presented mix feeding as a viable option

Probably because it isn’t a viable option in many cases.

Yes it works for some, but introducing formula feeds in the early days, especially at night, will almost certainly affect supply and lead to fully ff in a relatively short time. Especially when baby downs a bottle yet fusses at the breast because they have to work for let down- this is interpreted as a lack of milk, more formula is given, the body produces less milk, and so on.

This is why ebf until at least 6 weeks before starting to introduce bottles and formula is advised. Get a good supply established first.

Mixed feeding is a great option, but I think you need to be ready to move on to formula anyway, as if it doesn’t work out you will be exclusively ff. i wouldn’t advise it for someone who really wants to bf.

But I think it's precisely the lack of information about mixed feeding that leads to things like thinking that a baby guzzling down a bottle must mean mum isn't making enough milk so they should BF less.

I was told that the first taste of formula is always the end of BF as babies always prefer bottles. NOT TRUE. An actual fact would be something like, "It's best not to introduce a regular bottle until at least six weeks in order to establish your milk supply first." Babies need special milk for a YEAR. Just because it's not a great idea to give a bottle overnight when they're two days old doesn't mean mixed feeding isn't a viable option at all. This is a perfect example of wanting to withhold information from women because you think they're too airheaded to manage any nuance.

Well, this thread got weird, how has a thread of women giving opinions/experiences on whether they did or didn’t experience pressure to FF dissented into ‘BUT WOMEN LOSE OUT FINANCIALLY BY BEING ON MATERNITY, MEH’. That isn’t even relevant to the discussion here.

Twoo, do you actually think that’s the reason the campaign exists? To somehow attempt to make people feel guilty?! If anything it’s just reminding/prompting women who maybe come from a FF background like me that you can successfully BF a baby to 1 year and beyond with info on relevant numbers to call if you get stuck.

Infant feeding seems to be one of the few areas in life where people can’t just own their decision; it’s baffling and quite frankly ridiculous. Either way it’s hard, nobody ever said ‘woohoo feeding my kid was a breeze’ either you’ve got sore nips and cluster feeding and getting your baps out or you’ve got bottles that dismantle into 6 fucking parts to sterilise multiple times per day every day for a year.

You can’t bang on about getting the right studies and accurate data then quote a journalist as your best source😬 ‘IvE ReAd OnLiNe tHaT bAbIeS nEeD miLk iT DoEsNt maTtEr wHiCh KiNd, iT waS A StUdY’

Human breast milk is obviously optimal for a human infant, but so is sleeping in a cot feet to foot, not putting the car seat in the front, not giving solids before 6m and a whole list of other stuff and me and I’m sure every other sane parent ever has done at some point.

There shouldn’t be pressure either way, if you feel a HCP puts pressure on you either ante/postnatally then report them for how you feel. It got to the point with my own family where I just said ‘I’m not discussing feeding DC, let’s chat about something else’ every time it was brought U.K. eventually it stopped.

I can’t comment on every case (obviously) but a lot of babies do struggle to breastfeed after getting used to bottles.

@Streamlinerose Either way it’s hard, nobody ever said ‘woohoo feeding my kid was a breeze’

My mother told me she'd just put both of us straight to the breast and we'd latched straight on and never looked back. So I was totally knocked sideways by all the initial problems I had.

I do agree with you that women should complain. I complained about the BF class and postpartum "support" I had with my first and the information they had deliberately withheld. It's so hard to assert yourself as a FTM, though. I was using all my energy on staying alive so it took my six months to put together a complaint and when it was brushed aside I didn't take it further because I had my own shit to deal with.

I had a very different experience the second time round because I knew my own mind through experience. The first time, I foolishly believed that people whose job it was to deal with new mothers and babies all the time knew more than I did. So when they all told me different things and lied to me, I didn't know what to do.

@NobbySignaler

I've always breastfed, but the impression I get is you either do formula or breastfeed, which creates a polarised attitude to infant feeding. Why not mix feed? There isn't enough help to enable mix feeding in my opinion.

You're so right, but it's so strange when you consider this.... If about 80% of women start off breastfeeding, but that by 12 months old, only 0.5% of babies are exclusively breastfed, then this means that by far the vast majority of women have combi fed at some point along the way. So indeed, why the massive divide of BF versus FF??

@daffodilsandprimroses

I can’t comment on every case (obviously) but a lot of babies do struggle to breastfeed after getting used to bottles.

And a lot of babies refuse bottles altogether and will only breastfeed.

It's not like anyone says "There's also this thing called mixed feeding, here's advice on how to do it, here's pros and cons, here's some problems you might have and some potential solutions." There's just cavernous silence and then you're told that once baby has a bottle there's no going back. Not at all true for me. I had problems BF my son, did the dreaded triple feed, then eased on to EBF. Had I believed that one bottle was the death knell, then after he'd been given the first bottle to stop him starving to death I probably wouldn't have made any effort to breastfeed and been one of the mothers in your OP who is pushed onto formula against her wishes. Thankfully I had some friends who advised me and gave me the real facts.

@daffodilsandprimroses

I can’t comment on every case (obviously) but a lot of babies do struggle to breastfeed after getting used to bottles.

Generally this is because pace feeding isn't taught to parents either. We were lucky in a lot of regards as we had infant feeding team help us showed us how to pace feed which reduced issues going between breast and bottle and also found the slowest teet possible. We had the feeding plan so had to but kept up with a bottle once a day so I could get some rest. Would definitely do the same again.

Again it comes down to the information available to the parent at the time.

Should say he had a bottle of expressed milk from 3 weeks onwards as formula turned him into a screaming banshee!

@daffodilsandprimroses

I can’t comment on every case (obviously) but a lot of babies do struggle to breastfeed after getting used to bottles.

This used to affect me when MIL would spend some time with DC so we could catch up on some things, even over night twice. She would give him massive bottles with really wide free flow teats so he’d end up drinking ALOT more than he usually would at the breast and get frustrated with my boob for a day or so after being there.

She wouldn’t stop even though I’d told her repeatedly it was affecting our feeding at home, luckily he didn’t go there often so by the time 6m came around he was well into his food anyway so it made less of a difference.

DP used to do paced feeding with the smallest teat size when I expressed, that was the most like breastfeeding for us for length of feed and amount of feeds per 24 hour so we inferred that it was most like my breast milk output at the breast.

It’s a mine field, its like women are expected to dissect all these different bits of information that they’ve found in various places themselves because no one organisation seems to be about the parent and what’s best for the family. Add into that the fact it’s probably the most exhausted you’ll ever be in your life and it’s a recipe for disaster.

Ha @Scottishskifun crossed post but yeah same as you!

It is very frustrating when family do that. OH gave ds a bottle of formula milk when he was less than an hour old - I don’t know what he was thinking!

My experience is that breastfeeding is pushed & pushed but little or no help given with it!

I am BFing my 3rd DS (8 weeks) he had a rough start & was in NICU so started off formula & breastfeeding. When he got better he was the best BFer of all my DC so we have continued. I had some negativity re using formula as well as BFing. But a) this isn't my first rodeo b) I'm a gobshite so I didnt put up with it BUT that & other issues I had in post natal still piss me off. I would write a complaint but what would be the bloody point it would only get brushed aside

I am sorry that so many women have bad experiences.

FWIW, the breastfeeding support that I had in the hospital was indifferent but the community midwifery service was outstanding. I could call my caseload midwife anytime and she would pop round when she could to do 1-2-1 tailored support and there were 3 breastfeeding support clinics within 20 minutes walk of my house. Breastfeeding once I had that initial intensive support was easy and I am so appreciative of it.