To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

We do have a home working policy but it doesn't cover this scenario - the quality of work has definitely dropped, even though most staff are adamant they are more productive than ever
I think they aren't happy because they don't want to pay for childcare when they are at home and may have concerns about mixing with others but should I really be expected to support that?
If you haven’t updated your policy for the current situation then the business is seriously at fault! Every company I know of has done this.
‘May have concerns about mixing with others’ oh really could there be any reason for that? Have you kept tabs on the UK infection rates? Still bloody high. Schools just closed in france again. Tell people the situation is changing from September and for now we expect people to have looked for childcare but understand that it’s not as available as it has been in the past. In particular bubbles burst all the time, and young children may no longer attend childcare with snotty noses so are home about twice the usual amount of days for colds. I am in a virtually COVID free country and we still have schools close for a few days lockdown and our toddler is sent home for a week every 3 weeks till his snotty nose/cough clears. yab completely u for right now.

@Watchmenow

My child's school is only offering childcare spaces if both parents are key workers, we do not qualify, my parents are dead and my in laws are 3 hours away. I do not have enough leave to be able to take this week and next week, my husbands leave request was denied for both weeks. What would you like me to do with my child? Where shall I put her? The street? The loft? The car? I work my hours and sometimes have make up time in the evening, my employers are being flexible because things have not returned to normal. Stop being an arse! Is the women in your team who are mainly having this issue? Not the men?

Well said. What exactly would employers LIKE people to do with their DC if they have no childcare options? No grandparents to help, no partner, no after school clubs, no nursery place.

As long as output isn't down, I don't think any employer has the right to micromanage what goes on in someone's home.

Also annual leave due to Easter holidays. Child has developed chickenpox so have an issue to fix on that front too.

Why is it always assumed that people who WFH and have kids are piss taking slackers who do no work and are out to take the employer for a ride?

I WFH due to covid, my DD is in school, even when she was at home she is no bother, at 8 she is more than capable of keeping herself entertained. She is off school now for Easter and i am working, i put in for leave last year but someone beat me to it, my back up would be grandparents but they are not wanting to until they have had their second jabs. No holiday clubs running, no other option but for her to be at home. I am not sure what you would have me do with her OP, no childcare and my request for annual leave was turned down.

Interestingly i work with 2 other people, both dont have kids but every week i out preform them, all my targets and deadlines are met, one of them is taking the piss, never answers messages/phone calls/emails until ages after, management are in talks with bringing her back into the office as they are worried about her lack of productivity. But according to MN I am the piss taker as my DD is at home.

During home schooling so from Jan to March my work were very flexible to allow me to get DD set up with Zoom and help her with that, to repay their flexibility i worked after hours to make sure i didnt fall behind and worked harder than i have ever to make sure i couldnt be accused of taking the piss.

Infact DD used to be in breakfast club, but it hasnt reopened so i have to take her to school at 8.30, we used to have a meeting at 8.30 and my employer shifted the meeting for everyone to 9 to ensure i was back and could participate. They have been very fair to me and i have repaid that by working my bollox off for them.

It was alright for the company when schools were closed and parents had no other option though. They were happy enough to accommodate when it suited them.

We were in the middle of a pandemic. It was always meant to be a relatively short term option not a permanent one.

I

Seriously, how many people posting here are meant to be working right now? Lots of people posting about their company policies fir a Wednesday morning

I start at 2. We're not all 9 to 5ers!

We were in the middle of a pandemic. It was always meant to be a relatively short term option not a permanent one

We still are.

You can’t pay for childcare if it’s not open though.

If my manager told me I needed my kids to be in childcare this week I genuinely wouldn’t have anywhere to send them

watchmenow perhaps the op plans for the company to provide a list of places to put your children - closet, spare bathroom, under the bed...

@Rukaya

In my workplace the WFH policy (that has been in place for about 20 years) stipulates that you need to have childcare in place when you are WFH.

It can stipulate all it likes, it cannot be proven or enforced in any way.

Surely it can if the children are visibly present and in some cases disruptive? If there are kids appearing/audible in the middle of a client facing zoom call then that's an issue?

It might not be reasonable to ask for evidence of childcare, but it seems reasonable to say that during working hours you should be working not engaged in the provision of childcare and that your calls should not be disrupted by any children who are in the home?

I have a 10 and 2 year old, the 10 year.old might need approval for a snack occasionally and can be worked around easily although I wouldn't leave them home alone. The 2 year old...hahaha no

You’re not unreasonable. Most policies say that you must be available to leave the house if needed- so you shouldn’t be in charge of children who couldn’t be left on their own. Some discretion at the moment as things are not quite back to normal but going forward people can’t expect to receive full pay if they’re looking after kids (themselves if someone else is there it’s fine). If grandparents can’t be available then an alternative needs to be found just the same as if your nursery falls through

Surely it can if the children are visibly present and in some cases disruptive? If there are kids appearing/audible in the middle of a client facing zoom call then that's an issue?

Well obviously, but that's not the same thing as telling everyone to prove they have childcare, is it?

Schools are open again tho? And so I'm guessing you are talking about
Pre-schoolers and then the wraparound care for both age groups. These provisions seem to have reduced capacity now and if parents gave up their spaces it might be really difficult.

My employer (an NHS trust) sent out a homeworking survey and then tried to get everyone in the office for part of the week and that's worked well.

I helped collate some results and was on the working party and it isn't just the childcare bit. I hosted a zoom with a group and my kids are little (however dp has spent a lot of time on furlough) but one I issue to consider was secondary children not going on the bus as it was a mixing of bubbles so if parents have to factor a school run into the day when they have previously used a bus that's difficult and grandparents shielding.

An employer cannot demand anyone does anything regarding childcare as long as they are doing their job. If you're homeworking it's entirely up to employees whether they pay a childcare provider only they know although I'd find it very difficult to concentrate!

Why is it always assumed that people who WFH and have kids are piss taking slackers who do no work and are out to take the employer for a ride?

Who is assuming that?
However, in many people's experience it's not possible to be as productive while caring for young children. That's not calling people slackers it's just acknowledging that it's very difficult to do two jobs at once!

YANBU. Childcare should be sought and unless they can demonstrate it is not available having tried all avenues, or they have a child or household member who is clinically extremely vulnerable then the child should be in childcare for the bulk of the working day. I work four days a week at home, and pay for my child to attend nursery. Didn’t have the luxury of free grandparent childcare before Covid.

I do think that employers need to be more flexible to allow the working day to adapt to school pick ups and drop offs, child illness etc as I’m sure after school clubs and child minder capacity has lessened due to Covid but there’s a big difference between flexibility and trying to work whilst providing full time childcare. It’s suboptimal for the child and the business to be trying to do both at once and should remain an emergency situation, not the norm.

@willandgrace

Flexible working is in place, we deal with clients though so much has to be done in 'core' hours. It is difficult when meetings etc are being interrupted by kids - it's understandable that's not meant as a criticism but it can't go on In terms of what age, our office is open but staff aren't required to attend yet, the age limit is 'if you can leave them alone if you are required to attend the office you don't need childcare', the same as if they were office based When I spoke to one staff member who was struggling to manage her workload she said she didn't think it was fair that she had to use her annual leave for example as it's not her fault there's a pandemic.

She's right. It's not fair to expect her to use annual leave when childcare options are simply not working as usual at the moment.

You need to be a bit more understanding. It's not normal times and if you want your staff to be happy and productive then you need to make allowances whilst restrictions are in place.

I manage a large team of staff and I'm seeing a lot of piss taking going on. Staff members who work part time reducing output, missing meetings and not taking calls because they are distracted by children. Yet still clocking off at 3pm on the dot "because I'm part time and don't work outside my contracted hours". None of these expect their husband's to share the child wrangling as he has a big important full time job.

I work full time and have two school age children and I've just had to manage by making up time early in the morning, evenings and weekends and insisting my husband does a fair share. If I was part time it would be a doddle.

Some of those team members have recently been put on performance review and are wailing about how unfair and stressful it is. My sympathy is limited.

What's the point in remaining WFH if you insist on children having childcare. You're then still exposed and mixing with others so you might as well be in the office?

What's your goal with WFH? To keep people safe or cut costs?

It also largely depends on the type of work and how flexible it is?

You need to have a policy, put it in place and stick to it. People might leave over it.

I've worked throughout as a key worker but if I was WFH I wouldn't have risked my mum looking after DS as she is CEV and I'd have managed. If work kicked up a fuss, frankly I'd have found something else, family comes first.

YANBU

Unless it’s an exceptional case, such as, a 10 day bubble closing isolation, people should not be trying to work from home without appropriate child care for their young kids. Especially now child minders, nurseries, pre schools, childcare bubbles are open and exist.

It’s also very unfair on the child- but I recognise last year was unavoidable but now this isn’t the case, there are many options available.

Some allowance for no breakfast clubs and for those under school age, but I agree for any child of school age otherwise.

I would not be surprised for those who are complaining that some have DHs/DPs (or maybe DWs) who are expecting the person wfh to be bearing a greater share of childcare than usual.

@TheJerkStore

It was alright for the company when schools were closed and parents had no other option though. They were happy enough to accommodate when it suited them.

We were in the middle of a pandemic. It was always meant to be a relatively short term option not a permanent one.

I

Oh right, I didn't realise everyone had been vaccinated and covid has gone away. Must have missed that memo.

Childcare should be sought and unless they can demonstrate it is not available having tried all avenues

And how would you make them demonstrate that?

@Rukaya

We were in the middle of a pandemic. It was always meant to be a relatively short term option not a permanent one

We still are.

But in many areas childcare is open. Schools are open.

If you live in an area where childcare is an issue then that's a discussion between the employer and employee but long term wfh while providing childcare isn't sustainable and I feel will actually be detrimental for women's career progression.

Also, what are they going to do when they have to go back into work and not work from home?

Bring their kids to the office? Yea thought not!

Pre covid you weren't allowed to supervise children while WFH. I fully expect this to he the case again, but I think now is too early.

Grandparents still shielding and holiday clubs aren't running so don't have the usual options.

So yabu to insist just now, but hopefully not too much longer.