To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

@Reachersloveinterest

I’m guessing you can work 9-3 at least though without kids.

Some are trying it all day with pre schoolers

@GoldenOmber I appreciate we’re lucky in our area however I don’t understand why this provision isn’t being offered. It’s entirely doable if schools/after school clubs put the provision in.

I know nurseries were hit hard in the first lockdown but equally the number of people who have withdrawn children because they might as well keep them home with them are perpetuating the problem.

@Pupster21 just be grateful for the choice. The other thing is if your afterschool was to fold, how comfy would you be with your kids coming home to an empty house when DH returns to his office.

It's easy to say things will replace what's lost but that will take time.

Where I live, wraparound care was really hard to get even before the pandemic. My eldest was on a waiting list for almost a year, childminder waiting lists were even longer. I know people who only went back p/t after mat leave when they’d planned to go f/t because of the lack of wraparound care for their older children.

It does feel very invisible - even on here, a lot of people convinced that parents could “just sort it out” if they wanted to badly enough, or parents of nursery-age children not realising that nursery availability is often better than for school-aged kids.

[quote OverTheRainbow88]@Reachersloveinterest

I’m guessing you can work 9-3 at least though without kids.

Some are trying it all day with pre schoolers[/quote]
Yes. After working from the office as a public-facing key worker throughout last year, suddenly in January my school decided that I was not enough of a key worker to have a school place and so My employer had to change my job role to enable me to stay home, and I worked from home throughout this lockdown and home schooled my 6 year old. Neither job got done brilliantly well and it was incredibly stressful. It would be worse with even smaller kids. But what do you expect them to do? Should these parents just quit work?

Some are trying it all day with pre schoolers

Pre-schoolers are a different ball game. And I can see an argument that they need proper supervision. I'm still raging that Scottish nurseries closed in January / February. But if nursery isn't available because of bubbles bursting or SG being stupid, then employers need to have a bit of understanding.

@Lockdownbear DH only went to the office once or twice a week anyway before Covid and I only work 4 days. Pre Covid my parents had them one day after school also which hopefully they’ll start again in a few weeks. The school club is so well attended and the school need it to raise funds that I doubt it’ll fold. It’s run by the TA’s and a few other club specific staff.
@GoldenOmber it seems very unfair the differences in provision. Each of the 4 local schools in my area has an after school club run by the school, there are also childminders linked to each school and thinking of it there was another after school club run out of the youth centre which I don’t think has started again yet after Covid as it collected children from all 4 schools so is a bubble nightmare. Friends who used that have switched to the school run clubs.

I'm not sure how an employer can police such a thing! Of course with pre-school and kids up to say 8/9 parents SHOULD have some form of childcare when WFH but I can't see how an employer can tell when employees' kids are at home or even police such a policy!

This should be based on quality of work, meeting KPIs etc

Chill out - It will soon be back to normal

There is huge demand for childcare where I am, it hasn’t caused now bankrupt businesses to open or, nor has it encouraged any holiday clubs to open, wrap around is still operating at minimal capacity (two days per week with no more than four children from each year group), in usual times my sons wraparound group would contain around 2/3 of his classmates, so about 20 children
But that might be because indeed, the demand isn't there.

Soon, people will have to go back to their work place and taking their kids with them won't be an option.

Is it case that these parents will manage to find places whilst those WFH will continue to say that all the care providers are closed? Or a case if where there's a will, there's a mean?

Oh yanbu I've been on a team meeting hearing "mum wipe my bum"
Same child got hand stuck in letterbox, drawing on wall, sprayed cleaning products in eyes and loads more so mum had to stop to deal with that.
Unless the child is perhaps over 8 I couldn't work from home with the children taking my attention.

A lot of holiday clubs aren't running because facilities either have not reopened (council sports facilities and community centres) or are currently in use for vaccinations (could be a problem for the summer). Schools are also limiting/refusing hire of facilities too, plus bubble rules.

This.

This is part of the reason we can’t open yet. We can’t even access the space we have a long time hire, let alone hire the extra space we need.

The other reason is financial. Last year when things were just kicking off we were already set up for Easter. We’d applied for funding, we’d taken payments and we’d ordered supplies. Luckily we got a large donation from a local business which meant when we couldn’t open we could refund people. Thankfully the funders also accepted that people couldn’t return what they’d spent (it was donated to the key worker Easter provision).

We can’t take summer bookings based on the June 21st date because it’s too uncertain. If we want to run then we need to order supplies, but equally I can’t use fees to order said supplies until I have a guarantee of opening.

Also as we’re run and staffed by volunteers we can afford to run on a very small scale if needed - there’s no way the more expensive provisions can operate for long with a very small number of children. It’s not financially viable.

I actually support the employer in this rather than the employee.

If you cant get to work, for whatever reason, be it transport or childcare or whatever. Or you can't do the job, when you get there. Then it's not ok, is it?

There are exceptions, with older children being able to manage themselves, but really children shouldn't be at home, you shouldn't be entertaining them or schooling them, you are supposed to be doing your job.

Really employers should be able to ask/insist if adequate childcare is in place.

Can any of the pp who believe the op is OK to focus on childcare say why that's better than addressing productivity issues directly with the employees who aren't doing what they should be?

I kind of feel like a blanket (and imo quite intrusive) policy of looking at employees domestic arrangements is just an easier option for the op than having to have difficult conversations to address individual issues.

The children live at home, of course they should be there! Just because my workplace have chosen not to offer me a place in the office, it doesn't mean my kids should disappear. But I'm not looking after them while I'm working (DH is, or my mum, they go to the childminders when they need paid for care).
Once they are latchkey kid age they will let themselves in and I'll say hi if I'm not in a meeting then get back to work. I'm hoping to have got a job not WFH by then though.

@doughnutcraver

Oh yanbu I've been on a team meeting hearing "mum wipe my bum" Same child got hand stuck in letterbox, drawing on wall, sprayed cleaning products in eyes and loads more so mum had to stop to deal with that. Unless the child is perhaps over 8 I couldn't work from home with the children taking my attention.

Are you seriously suggesting a 7yo can't wipe their own bum?

I work for myself and I wouldn't be working if my child was at home with me. I think they're just not wanting to pay for childcare. if it's after school time though that's different.

@Welikebeingcosy how old is your child? And what's your solution when bubbles have burst? Or childcare isn't available?

We do have a home working policy but it doesn't cover this scenario

Why on earth not? And yes there is a high chance of indirect discrimination.

We are fully client facing with clients who would simply go elsewhere if we didn't deliver but frankly their staff have children as well and everyone this year has just had to be more flexible. Unless your clients are one to one sessions with say, vulnerable adults or children in deeply sensitive consultations the odd interruption by a child is just life. I've had board members on calls where a participant's child has interrupted this year.

How are you measuring productivity for the work? Is it clear objective measures or just a "feeling" that productivity is down? I have seen a pattern in clients of assumptions or "vibes" that productivity is down but when they look at metrics more objectively its little changed and where its down its more likely to be juniors or new joiners struggling to find their way in a new org.

Around my area schools may have opened but there is still recurring isolation periods for children and staff. There are no breakfast clubs, after school clubs or holiday clubs.
Many nurseries have shut permanently and demand doesn't seem to be causing them to reopen. Those still running have put prices up which makes them unaffordable for some families. Many childminders have shut up shop and moved to other jobs. Not everyone has local grandparents able and willing to take on childcare.

My staff repeat this story for a wide range of areas so our area is in no way unusual.

@Stompythedinosaur

Can any of the pp who believe the op is OK to focus on childcare say why that's better than addressing productivity issues directly with the employees who aren't doing what they should be?

I kind of feel like a blanket (and imo quite intrusive) policy of looking at employees domestic arrangements is just an easier option for the op than having to have difficult conversations to address individual issues.

I agree with you. It's poor management.

That said, in March last year a blanket policy was introduced at my workplace allowing any parent to credit up to 50% of their weekly working hours, with no reduction in pay. Their work was redistributed to non-parents, with no reflection in pay. That policy has unsurprisingly been really popular. So, any parent objecting to this policy on the basis of it being a blanket one wouldn't get much sympathy from me, I have to say.

Can any of the pp who believe the op is OK to focus on childcare say why that's better than addressing productivity issues directly with the employees who aren't doing what they should be?
Because in many industries, productivity is not directly tangible. It's easy to question an employer with a clear target, it's not so easy when tasks involve project work.

Also, if you agree to the person being at home because they claim to have no childcare, you then bring up that tasks have not been finished in time or errors have been committed and their response is: 'well yes, but I've tried by best to work and look after the children. You agreed to it'. What do you say then? When the reason is that they can't find childcare? If they can, then why didn't they use it in the first place.

@Stompythedinosaur

Can any of the pp who believe the op is OK to focus on childcare say why that's better than addressing productivity issues directly with the employees who aren't doing what they should be?

I kind of feel like a blanket (and imo quite intrusive) policy of looking at employees domestic arrangements is just an easier option for the op than having to have difficult conversations to address individual issues.

In this instance it seems children shutting difficult calls short is the issue.

I wouldn’t talk about childcare but more the need for uninterrupted working - a pp had good wording. I’d use HR advisor to get it right.

Shutting = ending

I have just finished work today. And I havent seen my dc apart from when they walked through for a wee. They have been happily playing together in the other room with magnets and k nex with Netflix on in the background.

In this instance it seems children shutting difficult calls short is the issue.

I wouldn’t talk about childcare but more the need for uninterrupted working - a pp had good wording. I’d use HR advisor to get it right.

This seems dead right to me. Address the issue with the staff who aren't managing their role alongside their children, and in these cases asking for childcare to be in place may be reasonable.

Blanket rules as an alternative to managing by performance seems less reasonable.