To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

@CandyflossKid whether they were allowed to stay open or not is moot point, many have been unable to reopen due to staffing, many have had covid outbreaks and decided to close for an indefinite amount of time, many have just closed their doors for good. What's allowed doesn't really come into it. I live in an area where strict rules have been in place the longest, when everyone enjoyed things reopening last year, we were still in almost permanent lockdown and continue to have a high amount of cases.

You're not being unreasonable at all imo.
Of course, everyone swears they are highly productive WFH with their perfectly behaved DC at home too.
No doubt enjoying saving on those childcare costs.

My DC just stuck her head in the door and asked if she could go out to play. I gave her a thumbs up.

Entirely less distracting from the call I’m currently on than this thread. 😀

(And yes, I’m giving the call exactly the amount of attention it merits.)

This may have been said already but expecting the same arrangements to be in place as if you worked outside of the home is not reasonable, I would work from home with a 7,8,9 year old cheerfully watching tv after school in another room - I would not let the 7,8 or 9 year old leave school and walk home alone to an empty house so would need childcare for that.
I also would need childcare for longer to allow for my commute. I think you need to ensure staff can do the job successfully and not micromanage their home arrangements. I also bloody hope that the dads are quizzed about this every bit as thoroughly as the mums, if you go down this path!

I think it’s fair but you need to give a time limit such as 3 months. You can’t realistically look after little ones long term and work full time from home. My dh works from home full time while I look after the kids but it would be totally unacceptable to expect us to pay for ds3 to go into nursery 5 days a week so the house is quieter. Also factor in school holiday care is more limited and maybe ask staff to use holidays to cover this. You may need to evidence that productivity is down.

No schools in the town I live in have ever offered before and after school care. What childminders are still going are always full with long waits. Nursery doesn’t take over 5s. That leaves the sports centre holiday club. Which isn’t allowed to open yet. I imagine it’s like this all over the country

My child's school is only offering childcare spaces if both parents are key workers, we do not qualify, my parents are dead and my in laws are 3 hours away. I do not have enough leave to be able to take this week and next week, my husbands leave request was denied for both weeks. What would you like me to do with my child? Where shall I put her? The street? The loft? The car? I work my hours and sometimes have make up time in the evening, my employers are being flexible because things have not returned to normal. Stop being an arse! Is the women in your team who are mainly having this issue? Not the men?

[quote ColourfulElmerElephant]**@CandyflossKid* It has!! There was a great sigh of relief in January when the Government stated Early Years childcare in England would continue as usual and be open to all, without having to close like we had to during the first lockdown in March last year, unless we had children of keyworkers*

No, you are wrong. It wasn’t forced to close but many could not stay open. For some, shielding or employees with their own caring responsibilities meant they did not have the staff available to open. It’s great it was open where you live, but my tiny village didn’t have either of the preschools open unless they were keyworkers’ children and the two nearby towns were very divided on whether their nurseries were open or closed.[/quote]
I'm not disputing the fact that it has affected childcare in some areas unfortunately- but I am not wrong in stating that Early Years providers could remain open during the period of National Lockdown.

If providers had to close due to lack of staff/children then that is different.

(Sorry OP, for getting off topic regarding your original post but early years childcare (where possible!) has always been open)

YABU because the pandemic is still with us, many of the usual options are either not available or expose children to multiple 'bubbles', and children cannot be vaccinated. Should you support their worries about their children contracting this disease, or passing it on to other family members? Yeah, I think you still should.

Once we are at a point where everyone in the UK has the option to be vaccinated - children included - then of course childcare needs to be in place as usual.

If the quality and/or quantity of the work is dropping - address that.

YANBU. In my workplace the WFH policy (that has been in place for about 20 years) stipulates that you need to have childcare in place when you are WFH.
It is ridiculous otherwise - not good for the employees' output, and not good for the child(ren) involved.

Would I really be at risk of indirect discrimination claim by expecting staff to have to same childcare provision in place as they would if they were in the office?

Of course you would be. You would have to ask everyone (except I doubt you'd ask everyone) if they have children. You'd have to ask the ages of those children, you'd have to ask if they have additional needs, you'd have to ask for their partners information and work schedules...and even with all of that, you have no way of knowing if they actually tell you the truth anyway, so what on earth would be the point?

YABU. Not everyone has been vaccinated yet, there are going to be those working for you who are vulnerable and unvaccinated and you're exposing them to even more risk by forcing the children into daycare.

Plus after schools aren't even open! And loads of people aren't vaccinated meaning family childcare arrangements won't be back to normal either.

Maybe appreciate the fact that your staff have been doing their best wfh with children for a full year and at least give them a few more months until everyone's vaccinated and things are open again.

In my workplace the WFH policy (that has been in place for about 20 years) stipulates that you need to have childcare in place when you are WFH.

It can stipulate all it likes, it cannot be proven or enforced in any way.

Holiday clubs just aren't running where we are. I'm taking annual leave because I took so little last year, and was able to carry it over, but fully sympathise with those who can't.

@Saladd0dger

No schools in the town I live in have ever offered before and after school care. What childminders are still going are always full with long waits. Nursery doesn’t take over 5s. That leaves the sports centre holiday club. Which isn’t allowed to open yet. I imagine it’s like this all over the country

You'd be wrong.

Before and after school club has run as normal at our school and there are a number of holiday clubs available this Easter where we live - albeit with reduced numbers in some cases.

It's not completely back to normal but we're getting there.

I think it would be unreasonable for parents of children under school age to have not attempted to find a childcare solution and just expect to continue WFH with the kids around. I work part time 2 long shifts a week and we have to find a solution for one of those days and its always a nightmare. Often we do it by annual leave or swapping shifts etc. My DH is sitting at home and could easily manage the kids but wouldn't because he is employed between those hours, there is no way you can concentrate with kids that young.

If there is self isolation or let down from family childcare then a degree of flexibility would be helpful but that would be short term exceptional circumstance. I know how much paying for nursery is a PITA but you can't expect to just keep them at home. I can only speak about 2 areas which I have lived in the last 6 months and even in strict lockdown I have managed to secure nursery places without any struggle. I have every sympathy for parents in different areas who have tried but struggling to get a place.

Seriously, how many people posting here are meant to be working right now? Lots of people posting about their company policies fir a Wednesday morning.

Access to childcare is not back to normal yet. Particularly at the wrap around/ holiday provision for primary age children stage, and informal family/ friends arrangements.

Many who used grandparents until shielding may have longer term issues if grandparents are waiting for a second vaccine and then find that their stamina for childcare has changed in 15 or so months of a restricted lifestyle. If the childcare market is under-supplied, it will take time for supply to catch up and meet demand.

I'm a SAHM anyway. It's DH working in our childcare setting. Fortunately the DCs are school age and reasonably civilised when they come in, but some days my child with SNs is ripe for meltdown, and can be heard throughout the house. My child is not in the wrong place and there is nowhere else for him to go, hence me sacrificing my career to be unpaid childcare.
DS2 is of a disposition where you could leave him to be without disturbance.

Expecting core hours that work within school hours and more flexibility around that is the most realistic compromise for employers and employees in what is still not a normal situation.

How old are the children? We have struggled with holiday care for our primary aged DC as so few sports clubs are running. Add on that that we lost both my DP to covid (who used to cover holiday when we were struggling) and we’re in a pickle and have to work with them at home at times. Appreciate the second issue really requires us to find a long term solution, but it’s difficult with so little childcare being open.

@womanity

Seriously, how many people posting here are meant to be working right now? Lots of people posting about their company policies fir a Wednesday morning.

Easter holidays + no holiday clubs (see many PP) = annual leave

@womanity

Seriously, how many people posting here are meant to be working right now? Lots of people posting about their company policies fir a Wednesday morning.

I'm on annual leave because it's the Easter holidays and I have a young child.

@HoneysuckIejasmine

YABU because childcare is not as available as it was pre pandemic. For example, you can still only have one childcare bubble, so if they used to use both sets of grandparents and a nursery, as my neighbour did, then they'd be screwed still.

This

@womanity

Seriously, how many people posting here are meant to be working right now? Lots of people posting about their company policies fir a Wednesday morning.

Unpaid parental leave as there are zero childcare options here.

@LalalalalalaLand123

YANBU. In my workplace the WFH policy (that has been in place for about 20 years) stipulates that you need to have childcare in place when you are WFH. It is ridiculous otherwise - not good for the employees' output, and not good for the child(ren) involved.

It was alright for the company when schools were closed and parents had no other option though. They were happy enough to accommodate when it suited them.

It depends. If they are trying, but unable to find childcare then what can they do. But if they are just thinking “great, I can save in childcare by having my 5 year old around while I work” and their work is suffering then YANBU.
One of my colleagues is currently complaining because work want her to put her two year old into nursery instead of her trying to wfh with him around. I think in her case she is being massively unreasonable, and work have actually been pretty patient not expecting her to have done it last June.