To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

@Rukaya

It has!! There was a great sigh of relief in January when the Government stated Early Years childcare in England would continue as usual and be open to all, without having to close like we had to during the first lockdown in March last year, unless we had children of keyworkers

And you think everyone lives in England, and only uses nurseries? Don't be so ridiculous

I live in England so if the OP is also in England, I am just stating the Government guidance from 6th Jan saying EY providers COULD stay open. And i didnt mention nurseries 🤷🏻‍♀️

But in many areas childcare is open. Schools are open

and in many areas it isn't. And they aren't, its the Easter holidays. They are all closed.

Things aren't back to normal yet. In England schools went back on 8th March. so where I lived they should have been back for three weeks before the Easter hols began, but during those three weeks one of my child's bubbles broke twice, so he spent two of those three weeks at home with no notice that that was going to happen. We're now in the Easter holiday period and almost all the local Easter holiday clubs, including the one the school itself normally runs, are not running because they don't feel they can in a covid-compliant way. I'm only aware of one that is running and it's at a nursery that has a terrible reputation (I'm not sure how it's still open!) so no one wants to send their kid there. Some people can ask grandparents to do a childcare bubble, some can't.

So many people I know have burned through their annual leave between Jan and Mar during lockdown three and are now struggling for what to do for the rest of the year.

There are plans for summer holiday clubs around my way - so, fingers crossed, this will be less of a problem come the summer.

Oh right, I didn't realise everyone had been vaccinated and covid has gone away. Must have missed that memo.

Are you planning on locking yourself away until Covid completely disappears? You know that's not going to happen right?

live in England so if the OP is also in England, I am just stating the Government guidance from 6th Jan saying EY providers COULD stay open

FFS, COULD stay open does not mean ARE all open! And who cares where you live? You weighed in agreeing with a poster who said all childcare was open, when it is not. You were wrong and still are.

the quality of work has definitely dropped, even though most staff are adamant they are more productive than ever

You need to collect evidence of the drop in quality and productivity. And the staff you’re managing also need to offer evidence of their increased productivity.

And you need to ensure that your actions don’t focus just on women.

And yes, nurseries stayed open in lockdown three, but the one local to me had to close everyone now and again with no notice when there were cases in the nursery. Nothing is guaranteed at the moment.

It's a difficult one. I absolutely feel for employers - it's not their fault and they still deserve the same output for the same pay.

From a personal perspective, I have a 3 and 8 year old. They've been in school / nursery since they reopened so been wfh fine (I work 7-3 so can do the pick ups and dh does drop offs on way to work). However, it's the Easter holidays now. Because 3 year old is funded places, he's only term time. Both my in laws passed away last year - they had always been our childcare - and my parents both work. There are no holiday clubs running around here at the moment. I also usually share childcare with other school parents - so one will have Monday off and have hoards of kids round, another Tuesday, etc. We can't do that at the moment. I have taken some leave and dh has taken some, but if this continues over summer we will very quickly run out of leave. I really feel for single parents who only have one lot of leave to use.

@OverTheRainbow88

Also, what are they going to do when they have to go back into work and not work from home?

Bring their kids to the office? Yea thought not!

Plenty of employers trying to force this. Those people will be forced to get CV/CEV grandparents to provide childcare again I suppose, or put kids in nursery if they can get a place. Some will have to leave their jobs if they can't get childcare. In any case, we can watch infections skyrocket and soon we'll be back to square one with even schools closed.

I am absolutely astonished that so many people think the OP is unreasonable - but then I do think there are a lot of people taking the piss in this way. My DS's nursery say they've had lots of parents not return their kids because they're still working from home - obviously they're all nursery age, so there is no way they are working effectively. A colleague at work continued to have her two toddlers at home long after nurseries reopened 'because they didn't feel comfortable with the risk' and was pretty openly barely doing her job and it really irritated me - I was paying nursery fees because I thought that working wouldn't be optional and not fancying it wouldn't mean I could just stop and still get paid!

@Rukaya

But in many areas childcare is open. Schools are open

and in many areas it isn't. And they aren't, its the Easter holidays. They are all closed.

I know. I am on annual leave because I have a young school aged child to look after.

Eventually things will need to get back to normal.
It isn't sustainable to ask (typically women) to try and do two jobs at once.

@willandgrace
I'd set up some support zoom calls and then listen to everyone's concerns then look at the policy, and see where the gaps are and try to come up with a plan.

It must be consistent tho - one thing that came out of ours was that employees with no children should be disadvantaged and that it was the same rules for everyone.

If we are full time we are expected to spend 2-3 days on the office but we can't have everyone in because of social distancing.

The quality of work has definitely dropped, even though most staff are adamant they are more productive than ever

I'm afraid that's often the case, since the assessment of someone focused on childcare savings can be very different to that of the person who's actually paying for the work (or lack of it)

The same applies to "problems" accessing childcare, in that while there are challenges, it'll be claimed there are even more when the motivation's preserving the WFH status quo

You can manage the less productive of course, but it won't be popular; among these, while there's usually a cry of "they'll get more out of us if they give us more", the reality once they've got it can be rather different

As I've said since Covid began, it's sometimes wise to be careful what you wish for; post pandemic there's likely to be resistance to employing young childrens' parents, especially with many more applicants for every job

We are looking at this at the moment,we are covered by our WFH policy
We are likely to say that from a certain date people WFH must have childcare,
Have been very flexible to date but sense a need to get back reality
Also Some of our staff who don’t have young children are complaining about having to pick up work from staff WFH
At the beginning of all this people were happy to help out but a lot of goodwill has evaporated
We will be sensitive to particular circumstances,

@TheJerkStore

It was alright for the company when schools were closed and parents had no other option though. They were happy enough to accommodate when it suited them.

We were in the middle of a pandemic. It was always meant to be a relatively short term option not a permanent one.

I

We are in the middle of a pandemic now. Last year was just the start of one.

I think YAB a bit U. My DC are old enough to be left to their own devices (11 and 8) but I wouldn't leave the younger one or them both together home alone all day to go to work. They're both back at school but wraparound care isn't open yet. I've put them into holiday clubs but they only operate from 9-3. I think a bit of understanding is required that people are doing their best in a situation that is still not back to normal.

I'd also be wary of mentally or outright accusing people of just trying to save money on childcare. So many households' incomes have been heavily impacted by covid: redundancies, furlough, pay cuts, loss of business etc. I'd be particularly understanding of your staff have had to take a pay cut.

Can’t staff use their annual leave during the Easter holidays? I have taken this week off then my partner will take the second week of the holidays off. We have had to do this last year and this year. So we won’t get a family holiday again this year. It’s crap but neither me or my partner can work from home, so this is our only option as we can’t use grandparents at the moment.

It depends on the individuals, WillandGrace. If people are able to do their work efficiently from home with their children in the house, it shouldn't matter to you. If having the children around (especially little ones), makes life too difficult for work, obviously they need outside help.

Look at the results before you judge.

YANBU
I work full time, pre pandemic WFH 2 days a week and I expected that even on my WFH days my hour were covered by childcare. This has to be stipulated in my Home working agreement pre pandemic.
Yes I’ve saved money during the pandemic with wraparound care closed, but my kids are back in wraparound care as soon as they are back at school.
If nothing else it’s rubbish for the kids to be stuck at home with parents working and not able to engage then due to work. I’d much rather they are having age appropriate interaction.
I expected to cover school holidays with a combo of annual leave (both myself and DH) - some purchased leave and holiday clubs in the summer.
If people work on the office childcare is expected- if has to be a
Stipulated for homework if because as you see on mumsnet at least once a month someone asks if it possible to work from home with your kids to save money. The pandemic has shown anyone with school age kids and a full time job it’s totally not and so many have reached breaking point with it. As normality resumes the expectation needs to be set for those new to WFH that dependent childcare is not suitable during working hours.

I agree that there is an assumption that those WFH are taking liberties - when in my experience it is extremely rare!

I am a key worker and have to physically be in work Mon-Fri. My parents are younger and therefore are still in full time employment. OHs parents live 7 hours away. We have no other relatives that are available to help and no access to after school care.

OH is WFH so our boys are able to come home and get on with homework/play in the park next to our house and it's all good. They are fully aware that OH is working and merely confirm they are home or pop their heads through the office door to say "We're just going to the park".

OH's productivity has not suffered as a result of this. In fact, his bosses are extremely pleased with the volume and quality of his work. OH says WFH works much better for him as he is not distracted by other peoples phones/office chit chat etc. His employers are aware of our childcare situation and have no problem with it. If they unreasonably said he was not able to continue with this arrangement he'd simply quit and get a position elsewhere.

In normal times I am required to prove I have childcare for primary aged children to cover all my working hours that I'm at home for. This has been suspended for the last year but I think will be reinstated soon

@OverTheRainbow88

Also, what are they going to do when they have to go back into work and not work from home?

Bring their kids to the office? Yea thought not!

If there is still no childcare available, there will be a lot of people taking unpaid leave or resigning. Not everyone is slacking and pretending they don’t have childcare. There are a lot of people who prefer to work uninterrupted.

@bladyblah

And yes, nurseries stayed open in lockdown three, but the one local to me had to close everyone now and again with no notice when there were cases in the nursery. Nothing is guaranteed at the moment.

Random closures are the kind of emergencies where flexibility should be offered - we’ve had two periods of closure/isolation where I’ve had to manage a two year old and work. The rest of the time, we use the nursery place available to them.

Just because nursery might close periodically, does not mean you should not use it at all.

@Hardbackwriter

I am absolutely astonished that so many people think the OP is unreasonable - but then I do think there are a lot of people taking the piss in this way. My DS's nursery say they've had lots of parents not return their kids because they're still working from home - obviously they're all nursery age, so there is no way they are working effectively. A colleague at work continued to have her two toddlers at home long after nurseries reopened 'because they didn't feel comfortable with the risk' and was pretty openly barely doing her job and it really irritated me - I was paying nursery fees because I thought that working wouldn't be optional and not fancying it wouldn't mean I could just stop and still get paid!

I’d be surprised if those people aren’t still paying nursery fees. Unless they are happy to take the risk their child doesn’t have a place to go back to.

I think you still need to allow for some flexibility.

My son is 12. He's at home this holiday. Usually he'd be off at football camp, some days at home, I'd take some leave to have the odd day with him.

BUT, camps are not open at full capacity.
Kids cannot go into each others homes to play so they have to be outside.
I've used loads of leave (albeit with the absolute support from my employer during strict lockdown), so don't have many days off and tbh I want to save them for when we can go away.

Yesterday my son played out with his friends for 4 hours, then he had football training. He's mostly staying in today and that's fine with me.
He is keeping himself occupied but has popped in my garden office while I've been on (informal) calls.

I would be really stressed if my employer did not allow for minor interruptions.