To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

Or were you only talking about after school?

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

Yes but things like after school care will open up to full capacity again soon. Firstly, schools opened; next the extras, like breakfast clubs, will resume. I think they have had to be careful because of the bubble system and once that has gone, it will be back to normal.

May I ask if you honestly want to use these services? If you do, you should express an interest so they can plan for the demand. If you don’t, they will work on the basis people don’t need them. New businesses will open too, even if it takes a bit more time. If you don’t really want to use them because you are saving a bit of cash, that’s between you and your employers. They can assess your productivity at work.

Our after school wrap around care is only accepting four children per year group for a maximum of two days per week. This will begin after Easter and will now only run until 4:30pm. Breakfast club is not returning at all.

A lot of holiday clubs aren't running because facilities either have not reopened (council sports facilities and community centres) or are currently in use for vaccinations (could be a problem for the summer). Schools are also limiting/refusing hire of facilities too, plus bubble rules.

My DC have done tennis "camp" which is 3 hours but they're still not allowed to use the Clubhouse except for toilet facilities so can't run long days and are a bit weather sensitive...

And hanging around the house all day whilst their parents sit at a computer is not what I want for my children for days in a row

Not what I really want either. But not got much choice. However he is at least able to get out and play with pals.

Thinking about it at 9/10 me and pals would take ourselves off to the local swimming pool. Do kids that age still do that?

But from an employer POV the key is really is the work getting done?

@Lassy1945

* My girls are 6 and 9 and are perfectly self sufficient during the day if I work from home and they're around. No problem at all and no TV/tablets either most of the time. There is no chance they'd go back to aftershool club or breakfast Club or even holiday club, there is simply no need, as long as DH or I are working from home at that time. * *Every child will be different though and the key is really to focus on the work being delivered, not on the domestic arrangements.*

It’s not about whether they are capable of doing it.
It’s what we want for our children.

And hanging around the house all day whilst their parents sit at a computer is not what I want for my children for days in a row.

My 7 year old loves it. We do plenty at the weekend

@Lassy1945

* My girls are 6 and 9 and are perfectly self sufficient during the day if I work from home and they're around. No problem at all and no TV/tablets either most of the time. There is no chance they'd go back to aftershool club or breakfast Club or even holiday club, there is simply no need, as long as DH or I are working from home at that time. * *Every child will be different though and the key is really to focus on the work being delivered, not on the domestic arrangements.*

It’s not about whether they are capable of doing it.
It’s what we want for our children.

And hanging around the house all day whilst their parents sit at a computer is not what I want for my children for days in a row.

Thats fine. Then you arrange childcare. My girls are actually far happier being able to chill at home after school and during the school holidays. It's hardly days and days and days in a row. It's afterschool and a few weeks of the school holidays (as we're on holiday ourselves for about 4-5 weeks in the year and they go to my parents in France over the summer holidays for about 2-3 weeks). They have plenty of aftershool activities and hobbies and we're never home during the week-end so they do really like being at home when they can.

Yes, it is limited FOR NOW. But when we get to Step 4, no earlier than 21 June:
‘It is hoped all legal limits on social contact can be removed.’

By the point, supermarket workers, the police, factory workers, hotel workers, catering staff, teachers, gym staff, electricians, hairdressers, mechanics...will be back at their place of work (if they ever stopped). There will be very little sympathy for office workers who are working from home and NOT providing a proper, pre-Covid service. As I said, that assessment will be made by your employers. If you are doing a great job and pulling your weight, there won’t be a problem. If you can’t do between 3 and 4 because of school pick up and meetings are interrupted by screaming toddlers, your employers will probably make some changes.

@Lassy1945

* My girls are 6 and 9 and are perfectly self sufficient during the day if I work from home and they're around. No problem at all and no TV/tablets either most of the time. There is no chance they'd go back to aftershool club or breakfast Club or even holiday club, there is simply no need, as long as DH or I are working from home at that time. * *Every child will be different though and the key is really to focus on the work being delivered, not on the domestic arrangements.*

It’s not about whether they are capable of doing it.
It’s what we want for our children.

And hanging around the house all day whilst their parents sit at a computer is not what I want for my children for days in a row.

It's certainly not what I want for my 12 year old, never mind a younger child. It's better now he's able to play out with friends - and I mean in terms of both lockdown easing and his age.

Age 7 or 8...no way would I want him to keep himself entertained for 6 weeks over the summer while I worked.

Even now I find I am mentally pulled away from the focus of my work if he's at home.

and they go to my parents in France over the summer holidays for about 2-3 weeks).

Ah ha...that'll help!

@TheOrigRights

and they go to my parents in France over the summer holidays for about 2-3 weeks).

Ah ha...that'll help!

Ah true. For the summer hols if we didn't go anywhere/they didn't go anywhere I may book them some holiday club or residential for a week or so. But then again they also spend the odd day with their friends etc so it really depends. It depends on the set up really. For primary aged kids it's hardly neglectful to have them home part of the day and during some (even most) of the school holidays. Ultimately its down to the parents, not the employer.

Yes, it is limited FOR NOW. But when we get to Step 4, no earlier than 21 June:
‘It is hoped all legal limits on social contact can be removed.’

But, as has been pointed out, ad nauseum, to you already, that doesn’t mean they will open.

I know of 4 providers off the top of my head that have shut for good. 21st June is irrelevant to them. The supply to replace them isn’t going to just materialise over night.

There is also radio silence in my area re summer camps.

Locally ours are limited too.
Some have gone bust (especially sports camps etc)
Some are only open to one school where before they were open to others.
Some have very limited numbers due to social distancing/bubble requirements.
Some need more staff for similar reasons and have had problems recruiting and getting DBS checks.

I'd like to add to my comments that this issue is so inflammatory in this country because childcare support is so appalling for parents. However it isn't only employers who can solve this. Far from it.

I'd like to add to my comments that this issue is so inflammatory in this country because childcare support is so appalling for parents. However it isn't only employers who can solve this.

Totally agree with this

OP, I hope your staff are talking to ACAS.

I also think that there might be an element of how well siblings get along. Two or three who fight and swabble all day will be different and from an only child or two who are best friends and never fight.

I don't know when DS will be dropped completely in Scotland but I very much doubt it will be as early as June. Schools aren't fully open yet either.

The responsibility lies completely with the government
They’ve repeatedly fucked childcare providers around with funding issues, with ever changing and ever more complicated guidance and that has tipped availability into the mire
Their funding structure for “free” hours had many providers working very close to the line already and the farcical handling of this (in particular the furlough fuck ups) tipped many over the line

I couldn't agree more as regards the overall position; the ever-changing rules and admin disasters have been stunning. However in that particular post I was referring to the parents' role in this

Absolutely in awe of your ability to swerve around every single post pointing out that childcare is often not available right now. That takes real dedication

I'm swerving nothing, GoldenOmber, and completely appreciate the current vagaries of provision, but while most parents will do what they've always done and sort it out for themselves, my reference was to the minority who'll invent problems in pursuit on continued WFH, purely because it suits

Reading this thread I feel like a fool. DH has wfh throughout the past year, I’m a keyworker so have been out the house working. We haven’t been eligible for a school place in lockdowns. We’ve continued to spend £90 a week on before/after school club despite DH being home because why should he take the piss just to save money. They went to holiday club in summer, October and Easter (all 3 of the local ones we use have been running as normal) despite DH being home. They’re 7&9 so could be home and glued to a screen but again DH is working so it’s be unfair I risk them interrupting meetings.
None of our local nurseries have closed. All of our local primaries have before and after school clubs running with no limits.
Just to add I’m in the one of the areas with consistently high rates and we’ve had the highest level of restrictions throughout.
OP it’s absolutely appropriate to suggest childcare is sorted.

@Pupster21 there is no right or wrong answer for those ages. And what are they getting out of wraparound care?

I think some WFH parents are using after school because collecting kids at 3pm is a PITA. Hence more demand for it than all day care in holidays.

They’re 7&9 so could be home and glued to a screen

Is that what you’d want for them?

@TheKeatingFive no absolutely not. Normally we limit screen time to 2 hours at weekend but if they were home after school with DH in another room in a meeting there’d be no option as they’d need to be quiet.
At after school club they’re crafting, playing outside, enjoying time with their friends. The saving money is tempting but it hadn’t crossed our minds to even cancel what we’ve done since they started school, it’s feel like a piss take for DH to be unavailable 3 times a week between 3.15 & 3.45 which is when a lot of his meetings are. He’s very lucky with how flexible his work are though and he has agreements for finishing early for swimming lessons (he starts early) so maybe the flexibility means he’s less likely to take too much.

None of our local nurseries have closed. All of our local primaries have before and after school clubs running with no limits.

Ah well, if that’s the case where you live, it can’t possibly be different for anybody else. Glad you’ve put us all straight.

At after school club they’re crafting, playing outside, enjoying time with their friends.

Exactly. So I don’t think you should feel like a fool. You’re lucky to have the provision and you’re doing the right thing by everyone.

@TheKeatingFive

At after school club they’re crafting, playing outside, enjoying time with their friends.

Exactly. So I don’t think you should feel like a fool. You’re lucky to have the provision and you’re doing the right thing by everyone.

Definitely. We would absolutely be using wrap around care if it was open. It is definitely the preferable option.

YABU, at the moment.
You'd have to sack me, because the wrap around care we use is shut until after Easter (at least), and I have no other options for childcare. Nothing else available in our village, no grandparents within several hours travel, no relatives locally, nobody I can make a childcare bubble with. I take a break at 3pm to do the school run and then carry on working, as best I can, til 5. What do you expect me to do?