To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

@JustLyra

A couple weeks is one thing. Fourteen months is another.

If the pandemic impact on childcare availability had only lasted a couple of weeks then parents, and childcare providers, would have been fucking delighted

But that's not the employer's problem. Why should they pay for work not done?

@Raaaaaaarr

Used to use grandparents but can not currently. Tend to not use clubs etc as not really the done thing in my culture and are patchy anyway right now so not sure what else I would be expected to do given we are still in partial lockdown? Also have given my company many many more hours of my time over the past year so would probably raise any eyebrow at having this topic raised right now.

If I could not do the work I'd resign and let the company hire someone who could exchange an honest day's labor for a day's pay.

Honestly it's thievery otherwise.

But that's not the employer's problem. Why should they pay for work not done?

Going by the OP’s post there are a number of people in her team affected by it. So, they have to balance up the downside to some of the team being less productive than ideal or getting rid of them all.

@JustLyra

But that's not the employer's problem. Why should they pay for work not done?

Going by the OP’s post there are a number of people in her team affected by it. So, they have to balance up the downside to some of the team being less productive than ideal or getting rid of them all.

Or just give them partial pay and divert the rest to those who actually are getting the work done.

I’ll be shot at dawn for this but YANBU, many people are quite frankly taking the piss now. Childcare is mostly back to normal, nurseries and schools are open. Childminders are working. Ok it’s the holidays some holiday clubs aren’t open, they take annual leave and return after the holidays like they would of before. After 12 months of lockdown if you cannot do your job working from home call them back to the office, it’s been 12 months now. Assuming your a small business it would be crippling them. I’m struggling to see many options where people can’t get back to suitable childcare for at least some of the week, people just don’t want to and are taking advantage. I say this as a working from home parent of two small children, who coincidentally are back in childcare before anyone says I’m a childless fool. I’ll sign my death warrant now 🤣

If I could not do the work I'd resign and let the company hire someone who could exchange an honest day's labor for a day's pay.

Honestly it's thievery otherwise.

That’s exactly what people used to think of sick leave. Or maternity leave. Absolutely batshit to pay someone not working. Thank god we are out of the labour dark ages, except for this poster of course.

It's worth enquiring what childcare they would be using otherwise - it's one thing expecting grandparents to at the moment, but we've found that school wraparound provision keeps being cut because they aren't getting enough kids in to make it financially viable to open. I'm a keyworker working on site most of the time so I need the childcare to be able to work but eg breakfast club has been stopped as most parents still WFH so didn't need it.

I've been given some flexibility around coming in later because of lack of breakfast club, but only until Sept. But I'm worried the wraparound care company won't be able to continue operating unless more people send their kids there. It's all bubbled along the same lines as school.

It's very noticeable this week that the only kids in holiday club (they only just got enough kids signed up to run it) are the much younger ones, with a very few older ones with younger siblings. Ie the kids you really can't get much work done if you're at home! I'm going to be interested to see the difference at holiday club next week once more people are back at work.
There's a catch 22 developing where people are WFH so not using childcare, but the childcare isn't viable to open because people aren't signing up for it!

There's a catch 22 developing where people are WFH so not using childcare, but the childcare isn't viable to open because people aren't signing up for it!

Yes absolutely. I can work quite happily with my 10yo in the house but not my 4yo. However I've still been using afterschool for two reasons partly I don't really want my 10yo watching so much telly or xbox I'd rather he was doing stuff and partly I NEED afterschool to survive for my younger child.

I think over the summer adults will have been vaccinated, offices will be reopening, and then the demand for afterschool / holiday clubs will rise again. So I really can't see any change until the start of the next academic year.

Childcare is mostly back to normal, nurseries and schools are open. Childminders are working

Fs could people read the thread?

Ok it’s the holidays some holiday clubs aren’t open, they take annual leave

Because we all have 6-8 weeks annual leave

If I could not do the work I'd resign and let the company hire someone who could exchange an honest day's labor for a day's pay.

Honestly it's thievery otherwise.

If it came to it, and large numbers of parents had to quit due to lack of childcare, I feel sure certain posters would be very quick to bust out the benefit bashing posts as a result.

There's a catch 22 developing where people are WFH so not using childcare, but the childcare isn't viable to open because people aren't signing up for it!
Exactly that. Time for businesses to start operating as they did before and expect a plan for kids to be back in childcare. If there is demand, childcare operators will open up.

There was a post earlier by a childcare person who said parents now only want to send their kids in for a few hours and not half or whole days which makes the business unsustainable to operate in that way

We would all love botnto have to pay for lots of things but at some point we have to.

So if a business to be able to operate means pre covid hours so be it, or the alternative is it closes down and you don't have it. After June when everything is basically opening up there will be zero excuse.

At least those should be honest and say they don't want to because they want to save money regardless of the impacts

if there is demand, childcare operators will open up

I agree, even if it takes a bit longer than I expected. In a few days, more people will be back at work: non-essential shop workers, hairdressers, beauticians, hospitality and so on. As many of these people are unable to work from home, the demand for childcare will rise, it will be provided (quite quickly, in my opinion - people like making money) and it won’t be too long before we are back to normal for a while 🤞🏻

I agree, even if it takes a bit longer than I expected. In a few days, more people will be back at work: non-essential shop workers, hairdressers, beauticians, hospitality and so on.

You may speak for England but not all of the UK.
Scotland has hairdressers (Nicola needed her roots done) and garden centres. Non-essential shops are the end of the month before they open. Don't know when hospitality opens or offices.

@TheKeatingFive it isn't acceptable to expect employers to pay in effect for your 13 weeks holiday childcare, the same requirement you had before the pandemic. And anyway, if women want to start down that line it will be 5 minutes before men say the same. Sensible employers, who want to retain their staff and who see the benefits of some flexibility, will no doubt offer some, where that is at all possible. In some roles, it just isn't. Absolute fact. But having lived through a pandemic doesn't immediately entitle you to school hours at your employers expense.

If there is demand, childcare operators will open up.

I’ve never known such high demand.

Nowhere that’s closed that I know of, including the one I help run, is closed because of lack of demand.

it isn't acceptable to expect employers to pay in effect for your 13 weeks holiday childcare, the same requirement you had before the pandemic.

There were holiday clubs in operation before the pandemic. Did this pass you by?

I, like many parents, would love some clarity on whether they will be able to open at normal capacity this summer.

I think you can ask, but not insist.

If you view it is children 7/8 plus are OK with minimum supervision and children under 5 are in nursery.
Nurseries seem to be operating fine as they can manage bubbles and demand is there even from wfh parents.

It's an issue for parents with young primary aged children. So really it's the parents with the 5 and 6 year olds who are struggling. And the amount of struggle will very much depend on the self sufficiency of the individual child.

My 8 and 9 year old need a level of supervision and interaction over the course of the working day, I wouldn’t want them entertained on screens for the whole time. During school term they go to aftercare and holidays clubs if I’m working during holidays. My employer would have concerns about my focus on work if they were home with no other adult during the working day.

That's maybe your children, some 8 and 9 year olds have their own key to the door.

Just looking at the big picture. At what age are children self sufficient enough to entertain themselves but not quite completely independent enough to deal with an emergency.

It's not an overnight thing, but they don't suddenly hit 11 and be completely independent. Its a gradual process before that.

@dontdisturbmenow

There's a catch 22 developing where people are WFH so not using childcare, but the childcare isn't viable to open because people aren't signing up for it! Exactly that. Time for businesses to start operating as they did before and expect a plan for kids to be back in childcare. If there is demand, childcare operators will open up.

There is huge demand for childcare where I am, it hasn’t caused now bankrupt businesses to open or, nor has it encouraged any holiday clubs to open, wrap around is still operating at minimal capacity (two days per week with no more than four children from each year group), in usual times my sons wraparound group would contain around 2/3 of his classmates, so about 20 children.

@Jellycatspyjamas

My 8 and 9 year old need a level of supervision and interaction over the course of the working day, I wouldn’t want them entertained on screens for the whole time. During school term they go to aftercare and holidays clubs if I’m working during holidays. My employer would have concerns about my focus on work if they were home with no other adult during the working day.

But that's your kids tho. My girls are 6 and 9 and are perfectly self sufficient during the day if I work from home and they're around. No problem at all and no TV/tablets either most of the time. There is no chance they'd go back to aftershool club or breakfast Club or even holiday club, there is simply no need, as long as DH or I are working from home at that time. Every child will be different though and the key is really to focus on the work being delivered, not on the domestic arrangements.

Yes but things like after school care will open up to full capacity again soon. Firstly, schools opened; next the extras, like breakfast clubs, will resume. I think they have had to be careful because of the bubble system and once that has gone, it will be back to normal.

May I ask if you honestly want to use these services? If you do, you should express an interest so they can plan for the demand. If you don’t, they will work on the basis people don’t need them. New businesses will open too, even if it takes a bit more time. If you don’t really want to use them because you are saving a bit of cash, that’s between you and your employers. They can assess your productivity at work.

* My girls are 6 and 9 and are perfectly self sufficient during the day if I work from home and they're around. No problem at all and no TV/tablets either most of the time. There is no chance they'd go back to aftershool club or breakfast Club or even holiday club, there is simply no need, as long as DH or I are working from home at that time. *
Every child will be different though and the key is really to focus on the work being delivered, not on the domestic arrangements.

It’s not about whether they are capable of doing it.
It’s what we want for our children.

And hanging around the house all day whilst their parents sit at a computer is not what I want for my children for days in a row.