To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

@womanity

but should I really be expected to support that?

For as long as there are any restrictions in place, yes, you absolutely should.

Why, though? Businesses paying full wages will go out of business if staff can't get the work done. There needs to be some sort of compromise/balancing act.

Obviously I can see that it's difficult (in some cases very difficult) for parents with young children WFH, but at the same time I think there's an element in some of having become used to not having to go in to work. Three of my colleagues (the three i work with most closely) don't want to have to go back into the office, even though none of them have children to look after. They've just got used to being at home.

I think that employers will need to work with employees to achieve some kind of compromise whilst the situation remains difficult, but I don't see why it should be assumed that the whole responsibility for dealing with the problem lies with employers.

@oblada

‘Someone I know has ducks, hens, dogs and other various animals at home (I'm jealous) - if she was do to an 'office job' and WFH she'd probably be more frequently disrupted than me with my 2 oldest. Should we ban pets too?
What about people who get easily distracted? Or put a washing on? Or empty the dishwasher? Go answer the door? Put the Alexa on?

Frankly it doesn't matter what is going on at home - either they can do the work to the standard you expect or they can't and you need to manage them or even reconsider WFH as an option. Simple.

My kids are much better behaved than many people's pets or partners so I definitely wouldn't want to faff about organising holiday childcare if they're happy to be at home instead’

Exactly this - if they can do the work efficiently from home then what is the problem?

@Hardbackwriter

Oh, so you were one of the posters on the thread where people piled onto me when I said I wasn't willing to voluntarily give up (and continue to pay for) the childcare I use to work just because I was working from home, said that it was selfish, an excuse not to care for my own child and that I obviously just didn't care about the staff at DS's nursery? Good to know!

Sorry for the late reply and for the slight derailment. Based on the comments I made as I can’t reply for others:

1. in January, over 1000 people were dying of Covid a day. I felt it was unfair on nursery workers to insist they should work in rooms full of people and no mitigation, whilst others (including parents of nursery children) worked at home. This was the time we needed to muddle through and put up with worse service so we could save lives. I still feel it was selfish to put others at risk when cases were so high.
2. In April, many more people are vaccinated and the number of Covid infections have been falling rapidly. Over the next few weeks many more businesses should be reopening. I am looking forward to normal service resuming as it is safer to do so. If that can be done whilst people work from home and children are there, great. If it can’t, then childcare should be found (as soon as possible). We should not need to muddle through for much longer.

Businesses (like the OPs) and consumers will probably be sympathetic for a few more months but life will return to normal at some point. I hoped June, although comments on here suggest it might take a little longer for support to be in place; however, fingers crossed, normality is on the horizon. Some of the posts I’ve read make me doubt that is what some people actually want. Only they can explain why that might be the case.

Some of the posts I’ve read make me doubt that is what some people actually want. Only they can explain why that might be the case.
I assure you, I very much want my DC to be elsewhere. 😀

[quote Herecomesspring1]@MysticMeggy you’re just bitter that you weren’t able to do it[/quote]
Doesn't that just say it all..

What do all these people able to WFH and wanting keep their young DCs at home while working to save money, think that the many people who've had to go into work throughout, often on low incomes, are doing?

@coronafiona

There is a huge difference between wfh and homeschooling, and wfh while kids play or watch tv though.

Exactly!

I asked the question what age, people / their kids got the key to the door. Most people seemed to say 10, and a few said younger.

So my conclusion is if 10 year olds are self sufficient enough in to come home and let themselves in. They are more than capable of entertaining themselves while a parent works in another room.

It's a relief to see the vote anyway; good (though not surprising) to see that a large majority recognise where the responsibility lies

What do all these people able to WFH and wanting keep their young DCs at home while working to save money, think that the many people who've had to go into work throughout, often on low incomes, are doing

I've always worked from home, long before covid happened. So that I could fit childcare around that. People that go into the office obviously will need childcare, whether it's paid or family. Not sure what your point is here?

@Puzzledandpissedoff

It's a relief to see the vote anyway; good (though not surprising) to see that a large majority recognise where the responsibility lies

Absolutely in awe of your ability to swerve around every single post pointing out that childcare is often not available right now. That takes real dedication.

@Erkrie

What do all these people able to WFH and wanting keep their young DCs at home while working to save money, think that the many people who've had to go into work throughout, often on low incomes, are doing

I've always worked from home, long before covid happened. So that I could fit childcare around that. People that go into the office obviously will need childcare, whether it's paid or family. Not sure what your point is here?

If it works for you and your work, that's great. My point was that so many people on here are saying how it's hard to get childcare, or how it's a pandemic and therefore colleagues and clients need to be more flexible about replies at odd hours or working around a toddler... Yet I, like others I know who've had to gone to work, have in the vast majority have now managed to sort childcare, even if there does still need to be some more flex for school holidays and pickups and of course for isolations etc.

However many of my friends WFH, like the posters here, say that childcare is just too hard to find, plus theyre saving so much etc etc. Again, fine if their job works that way. But plenty don't, and it's very reasonable if employers require that you've made best efforts to sort childcare for children who are primary age and under during core work hours.

Used to use grandparents but can not currently. Tend to not use clubs etc as not really the done thing in my culture and are patchy anyway right now so not sure what else I would be expected to do given we are still in partial lockdown? Also have given my company many many more hours of my time over the past year so would probably raise any eyebrow at having this topic raised right now.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

It's a relief to see the vote anyway; good (though not surprising) to see that a large majority recognise where the responsibility lies

The responsibility lies completely with the government.

They’ve repeatedly fucked childcare providers around with funding issues, with ever changing and ever more complicated guidance and that has tipped availability into the mire.

Their funding structure for “free” hours had many providers working very close to the line already and the farcical handling of this (in particular the furlough fuck ups) tipped many over the line.

Yet I, like others I know who've had to gone to work, have in the vast majority have now managed to sort childcare

That’s lovely for you! And indeed for me - I’ve managed to get childcare for almost all the hours I need. But a lot of people have not been able to get it, because a lot of out-of-school care and so on is not operating at previous capacity.

If you read the thread you can see poster after poster after poster after poster saying the same thing. I don’t know why you’d assume they were all lying so they could enjoy the wondrous joys of working from home with small children? Have you ever tried working from home with small children?

I still haven’t managed to get care for all the hours I need, but fortunately my boss believed me when I said that and agreed to flex my working pattern so I could still work my normal hours. That is how you have reasonable conversations about these issues. Not “well breakfast club is open where I live so I don’t know what your problem is!”

Individual circumstances need to be considered also however. My son is 17 and severely disabled. His day unit has still not reopened and believe me there is NO childcare for a 17 year old that cannot care for themselves independently. My partner has been forced to leave work to allow me to continue working as a result.

In my town alone there are 40 missing breakfast club places (covers 2 schools), 60 afterschool club places (covers 2 schools) and in the holidays 60 kids a week (usually kids from 3 different schools generally) so 120 places over Easter. That’s what the group I chair would normally provide.

One school has 12 before and after school places available. No Easter set up. The other schools have nothing.

One nursery has closed and two childminders have quit.

That’s just in one town.

YABU - our school is not doing breakfast club, after school provision or holiday clubs.

I was a childminder and have closed due to the pandemic and about to start new job. I know the parents I gave notice to struggled to find new alternative childcare as there is just not enough spaces available locally. Due to lots of childminders closing and nursery’s currently full. Previously I have worked all the way through the lockdowns and all the kids attended as parents could not work at home with them there.

Yanbu - with some flexibility for periods where settings close or are temporarily unavailable,not reopened yet etc.
But making it clear that the longer term expectation is that wfh cannot be combined with childcare.
I know it's been very hard but some parents have been incredibly entitled. Our employer offered full flexibility to do work whenever possible, make up hours in the evening etc. but some people were expecting to just get paid leave to cover it all. Stuff the rest of us with older children etc. Other caring responsibilities and a massively increased work load as a result of the pandemic.
It's not your employers issue if you cannot afford childcare in the long run once it is available. Once childcare is available it's reasonable to have to pay for it while you are working. But I do think things are far from back to normal at the moment so insisting right now would be unreasonable.

@Erkrie

Of course it's reasonable for OP to expect childcare. And the quality of work to remain. Which she says has dropped

It's reasonable for the op to expect the quality of work to remain the same.
It's reasonable for the op to expect the number of work hours expected to be completed.
It's reasonable for the op to expect the worker to be available without interruption at key times.
It's reasonable for the op to expect the same amount of work to be completed as it was pre covid.

It is not reasonable for the op to dictate family arrangements / including child care arrangements, which take place in the workers own home.

It is also: reasonable for an employed parent to request flexible working or furlough (without any certainty of getting it however, as previous posts attest);

reasonable for either grandparents or other paid or unpaid childcare options not to be willing or able to provide childcare, especially if this could put anyone involved at greater risk;

ditto paid versions where both risk and resources may change or be unworkable from week to week;

reasonable for people to do the best they can under current rules and guidance - yes, it's changing, but there have been very few predictable months and phases in the last 14 months and we have not passed the April phase yet;

reasonable for schools and childcare provision to limit their offering, as they are workplaces and workers too.

reasonable for an employee's particular circumstances to mean that 'proving' childcare to their employer in this current situation (in fact to 'prove' a chance of personal productivity - or otherwise take leave and leave it to those with only themselves to be responsible for) could be seen as quite hostile - again, we have had examples from carers of elderly, disabled, and post-covid affected family members crop up in PPs. Not a stretch to consider socio-economic factors here either.

-Oh, and reasonable to have plenty of fair warning of performance issues and perhaps related support, especially during times of unusual working conditions.

I've had to request flexible working to manage as a lone parent (became one during the pandemic so I've been winging it!).

I'm reducing my hours and will soon have to request different flexible working hours to allow me to do one of the school runs because my DC's nursery/primary school now only has 1 Ofsted registered childminder who can do school runs and she's reducing the places she can offer. Pro's and con's to WFH and going into the office in my line of work. It's just nice having the option to do a mixture because I know I'll be much less on edge about last minute childcare let downs/calls to isolate one of the DC's if WFH and can make up for those disrupted hours.

I'm curious how other lone parents are managing?

@Stripyhoglets1

Yanbu - with some flexibility for periods where settings close or are temporarily unavailable,not reopened yet etc. But making it clear that the longer term expectation is that wfh cannot be combined with childcare. I know it's been very hard but some parents have been incredibly entitled. Our employer offered full flexibility to do work whenever possible, make up hours in the evening etc. but some people were expecting to just get paid leave to cover it all. Stuff the rest of us with older children etc. Other caring responsibilities and a massively increased work load as a result of the pandemic. It's not your employers issue if you cannot afford childcare in the long run once it is available. Once childcare is available it's reasonable to have to pay for it while you are working. But I do think things are far from back to normal at the moment so insisting right now would be unreasonable.

I've been shocked at how many parents are only too happy to collect a full paycheck for partial and spotty work, leaving the rest of us to pick up the slack. For a year. Talk about lack of integrity.

Pay should be docked for work not completed and/or hours not worked. Businesses aren't responsible for one's personal lifestyle issues, certainly not indefinitely. A couple weeks is one thing. Fourteen months is another.

But I bet parents would scream if asked to work for free. They've no problem being paid for naught.

you are being very unreasonable, it can be costly especially currently especially also for single parents, we are trying to reduce contact still where possible so no it's not recommended if the parent is at home. Also yes you can put in new policies but if it wasn't part of their initial contract and they have been working in that format for a while now, legally you don not have the right to change that.

A couple weeks is one thing. Fourteen months is another.

If the pandemic impact on childcare availability had only lasted a couple of weeks then parents, and childcare providers, would have been fucking delighted