To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

Op
As I think you have gathered I think the best thing is to give staff dates for certain milestones.
I think asking them to find childcare for the summer holidays with plenty of notice is entirely reasonable.

I think childcare until next academic year is going to be massively impacted. I certainly wouldn't expect the usual level of provision over the summer.

OP would you prefer a slightly reduced output for a bit or having to readvertise for staff. Because I suspect that'll be the choice.

If you know certain staff members are choosing not to use childcare, then that's a conversation with individuals.

Swings and roundabouts. You work from home and say you don’t need childcare, they won’t open. If you have to use childcare, they will open. How about using childcare in September or December or in a year’s time? It does look a bit like...’No but, yeah but...’ to me. No skin off my nose (not my line of work) but I won’t continue to use businesses where I am put on hold whilst someone deals with a screaming child or where I have to wait hours for someone to pick up a phone because it’s school pick up time.

I am very glad I don’t have to deal with the entitled parents on here who expect others to pick up the slack for them.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones and the nurseries that have closed their doors for good because their business couldn't survive lockdown?

Where do you expect the children who attended those nurseries to go when the ones that are left are running at full capacity?

New nurseries song just spring up overnight you know

@BustopherPonsonbyJones I completely agree that people should be using childcare where it's available and that you can't acceptably work and look after young children, but I'm a bit confused because I think I recognise your name as one of the posters who insisted that nurseries should have been shut in January and told parents that if they sent their children to them when they were open they were putting nursery workers at unnecessary risk? Sorry if I've got you confused with someone else.

New nurseries DON'T just spring up overnight

but I'm a bit confused because I think I recognise your name as one of the posters who insisted that nurseries should have been shut in January and told parents that if they sent their children to them when they were open they were putting nursery workers at unnecessary risk?

Yes, I thought I’d remembered that too.

Possibly I have also got names mixed up though. Certainly there has not been a shortage of posters complaining about selfish entitled parents wanting childcare back in winter, who are now complaining about selfish entitled parents not using childcare in spring.

Yes I thought that too

@Hardbackwriter
In the middle of the pandemic, with cases surging, I did, indeed, expect places of mass gathering to close to protect employees (nursery nurses and teachers). That was the ‘muddling through’ part of the pandemic as lives were are risk. We are past that (at the moment) and life is going to continue. I am very glad about that although others seem less happy to return to normal.

Interestingly, I also recognise names from previous discussions, many of whom insisted childcare and schools remained open, whilst Covid cases surged, even though they worked at home. I am wondering why these people can’t access childcare now, when they could then (it was very important than nursery nurses had to keep going...)

It is all very interesting.

I am wondering why these people can’t access childcare now,

Because, and I believe this is only the thirty-seventh time this has been mentioned on the thread so fair enough if you’ve missed it, lots of it is not open. Not available. Shut, or limited, or with long waiting lists.

What is it you actually want people to do in these circumstances? They can’t magic childcare out of the air.

I am wondering why these people can’t access childcare now, when they could then

If you’re referencing me, my childcare is open thankfully.

However many of my friends are not so lucky and I’m also not sure what will happen in the summer holidays.

I suspect your position is just generally anti parents though.

There's no point at all talking generalities in terms of the current if childcare provision.

A boss in Brighton doesn't care that 19 nurseries in Newcastle has closed down or vice versa.

The onus should be in the parent WFH to evidence that THEIR provider is not available and that they have tried other alternatives without success BUT that the issue is only temporary.

It's otherwise very easy to discuss the current state of childcare in the country and use this as an excuse for keeping children at home.

I am wondering why these people can’t access childcare now

Grandparents died from covid, nurseries/childcare permanently closed due to the pandemic so more children after the fewer remaining places, children are vulnerable enough to have to stay out of childcare but not allowed to have a vaccine yet, childcare unreliable due to bubbles popping and too few staff for children etc.

There are many people who are genuinely struggling for childcare in the pandemic; not all are just taking the piss. Usually those who assume the worst of others do so because they judge them by their own behaviour.

I can see you trying to take on board the perspectives of the people on the thread.

For what it's worth I have 2 primary aged DC who are at a holiday club over Easter because I need to work uninterrupted and DH works outside the home. Yes it's costing me but the cost to the organisation I work for if I was unable to fulfill my role would be greater.

We have home testing kits which isn't fun but necessary to keep us and others safe.

I would expect staff to be fully available by the summer holidays when holiday clubs should be back to normal on terms of capacity. I know there are capacity issues at the moment so not all parents have been able to find a place in a holiday club. But that should be back to normal by the summer. And if not I would expect no childcare issues from September onwards.

Employers have a responsibility to their employees but equally employees have a responsibility to their organisation. I pay for childcare to be able to do my job to the best of my ability which is what I'm paid to do.

@Theluggage15

People who go out to work have managed to organise childcare. I don’t see many supermarket workers or nurses with their children in tow. They’re just trying to save money.

Because childcare and school provision was prioritised for these workers,

Realistically I think it will be into next academic year before wraparound childcare, esp for school holidays and breakfast clubs reopen fully.

Many are struggling along with reduced numbers.

There are multiple things at play, bubbles limiting spaces, families not wanting to be exposed to more bubbles than they need to be.
Grandparents who may normally have their own stuff to do, clubs, holidays etc aren't happening so they are bored 'oh well I might as well babysit the kids'

So reduced demand. Supply is in turn reduced further. If a childcare provider needs 20 kids to break even but can only guarantee 10 kids they just aren't going to run at a loss.

I'm fingers crossed my childcare will run in summer but who knows.
Normally they go lots of trips but if those are curtailed then parents who are at home are less likely to send kids just to mess around in the school playground when they can mess around in the garden at home for free.

Oh, so you were one of the posters on the thread where people piled onto me when I said I wasn't willing to voluntarily give up (and continue to pay for) the childcare I use to work just because I was working from home, said that it was selfish, an excuse not to care for my own child and that I obviously just didn't care about the staff at DS's nursery? Good to know!

"The onus should be in the parent WFH to evidence that THEIR provider is not available and that they have tried other alternatives without success BUT that the issue is only temporary."

How would they evidence any of this? How can they guarantee it's only temporary? What if they have a partner in the home who's caring for the DC while they work? Or a nanny? Is that classed as suitable childcare?

Are we saying an employer should have the right to say children be banned from their homes while their parent wfh even if there's adequate childcare available IN the home?

Where does it end? My dogs are more of a distraction than my DC. So no pets allowed in the home?

My childcare isn’t open at its usual hours during school term (opening late & closing early) & there’s no holiday care. There are no childminders who have space in my area.

We actually both work out of the home so it’s a bit shit. I’m leaving 3 kids home alone for 3 hours today because we don’t have another option.

YABU and need to treat each individual case differently. It shouldn’t be a blanket rule.

what would people do if their employer said they had to go back to the office?

Find an employer willing to offer the flexibility I need in order to balance work and life. They exist and even before the pandemic I went in to every interview making it clear what I needed, what the employer gets in return and every time I was offered the job. I’ve had WFH and flexible hours for about a decade now.

We need to get away from this dinosaur attitude that 9-5 office based work is the only way we can run the economy. There are millions of jobs that can be done that way, only attitudes are preventing it.

@TheKeatingFive

You chose to have DC. They were not forced upon you

ODFOD with this bollocks.

Absolutely no one ‘chose’ to have children in a pandemic, when they were expected to work full time with no childcare available. It was a totally unprecedented situation.

No I will not.

Pandemic or no pandemic, some people have chosen to have children, others have not. It is grossly unfair that those without children are expected to bear the load. Why do you think they should?

Childcare bubbles were also added to the rules to allow parents to work.

In Scotland we were told we could bubble with a single person household. It was not for childcare, it was for those who were isolated and needed support.

My parents are in a two person household. As is my sister. MIL is alone but chose to bubble with her other son who lives closer. Childminders can’t accommodate DD’s disability. It is now the Easter holidays and normally DD would be with one of those relatives or at ASC which is closed.

How exactly do you think we can magic childcare out of thin air? Thankfully my boss isn’t a dick and neither is OH’s.

It is grossly unfair that those without children are expected to bear the load

They’re absolutely not ‘bearing the load’

Parents supported the closure of childcare to protect society as a whole, at great cost to themselves and their DC. They were put under tremendous pressure to do their jobs while also caring for and homeschooling their children.

It is grossly unfair that those without children are expected to bear the load
It’s grossly unfair. Covid doesn’t give a shit. It’s unfair on all of us, not least kids who are getting 8 hours uninterrupted screen time a day instead of a childhood. It’s grossly unfair that young people are having to stay home to protect old people, it’s unfair that certain professions put people more at risk, it’s unfair that some people were furloughed and others not, it’s unfair that some people lost all their income and others not. Covid gives not a shit for fairness. All of it is really fucking unfair.

However, sacking people who can’t magic childcare out of thin air isn’t the answer.

I said this before too; what would happen to your company or service if the people that run it all quit? All those calls that can’t be interrupted? Would they be happening now without interruption or would they not be happening at all because there’d be no-one to make them?