To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

You chose to have DC. They were not forced upon you

ODFOD with this bollocks.

Absolutely no one ‘chose’ to have children in a pandemic, when they were expected to work full time with no childcare available. It was a totally unprecedented situation.

People who go out to work have managed to organise childcare. I don’t see many supermarket workers or nurses with their children in tow. They’re just trying to save money.

On a regular holiday when wfh is do childcare swaps with my 9 year old.

Not possible right now to have children playing solely outside for 6 hours - just too cold!

People who go out to work have managed to organise childcare. I don’t see many supermarket workers or nurses with their children in tow. They’re just trying to save money.

That’s not fair at all. Essential workers WOH have been prioritised for places. Supply is down, which has been demonstrated time and time again on this thread.

It’s important to differentiate between those who genuinely can’t get childcare and yes they exist.

I wouldn’t do it willingly again, but plenty of young children spent a lot of the last two lockdowns stuck in front of the TV, including mine. It was shit for everyone involved.

Exactly I was so relieved when nursery reopened. My youngest was so neglected especially during that last period of nursery being closed.

Pinetreesfall seems to think nannies are just sitting about waiting on work. Not to mention how few people realistically can afford a nanny.

Nobody based their family planning or financial choices on a pandemic. Not having child care available. Little over 12 months ago Nobody had heard of furlough.

@Theluggage15

People who go out to work have managed to organise childcare. I don’t see many supermarket workers or nurses with their children in tow. They’re just trying to save money.

Many non essential workers have gone back too and will be doing next week.

Childcare bubbles were also added to the rules to allow parents to work.

If you’re self employed or the schools are closed it’s one thing but when schools are open or it’s the normal holidays then it’s not hard to see why an employer would expect you to work and not parent at the same time.

@Theluggage15

People who go out to work have managed to organise childcare. I don’t see many supermarket workers or nurses with their children in tow. They’re just trying to save money.

Essential workers like that have been prioritised for childcare. The nursery locally here is still only for key workers.

Also lots of nurses, doctors and the like had/have partners who’ve been furloughed or who are wfh.

Then people like my SIL, whose kids stayed with family (us) for long chunks of time and didn’t see their working parent.

Suggesting that there’s a normal level of childcare available is just daft when the issues have been highlighted multiple times.

You can't insist they have childcare but you can insist that their performance and work output is as expected. If they are not performing and work isn't being done, you can take action. You cant force them to get childcare but you can follow your performance and disciplinary policies. With regard to covid, It is a reasonable expectation that they have childcare in place as schools and nurseries are open now so I dont think its unreasonable to expect this.

@GoldenOmber no they didn't. My husband had to quit his job

[quote Pinetreesfall]@GoldenOmber no they didn't. My husband had to quit his job [/quote]
How many families can suddenly decide that a parent can just become a SAHP?

Especially knowing jobs aren't going to be easy to come by later. You are clearly very fortunate but have a little empathy for those who are struggling financially and being tugged in a million different directions.

@TheKeatingFive @JustLyra
Fair enough, not all childcare is available now but by June it should be as everything opens up - and people will certainly be available for work if you need help, even for a few hours. The only reason for refusing help then is because people want to save money and nurses, supermarket workers and delivery drivers would probably like to do that too.

With regards to who is responsible for your children, it remains you. We have muddled through and many of us have done more than we did previously. At this point, however, if those with children need those without dependent children to cover for them, that will need reflecting in salaries, so those who are doing more, get paid more and get the choice to say no if they don’t want to pick up the pieces. The idea that society owes parents support because they worked terribly hard throughout the pandemic is laughable and incredibly self-centred. Most people could put forward a case as to why they have suffered.

If they are not performing and work isn't being done, you can take action
The problem is that this is not as straight forward as it appears.

People come up with excuses, say it's not their fault, then they disagree, then they say they are bullied, then they do even less work, go off dick etc...

All this takes a lot of management staff and can create stress when it wouldn't be an issue if staff didn't try to juggle work and childcare.

Surely, if the reason why kids are still not in childcare is that the provider is still closed or not taking on non key workers, then why resenting just showing alerter from the provider to confirm it, just like a manager can ask for a sick note. Why the defensiveness?

@Lockdownbear I earn under £2k a month. £1800 of which normally goes on childcare. My husband works a NMW job. By him quitting and saving childcare during the first lockdown we were able to do it.
He's now an agency worker and we have to pay nursery and wraparound care too - does that make us fortunate? I don't think so. It's pretty crap but you do what you must.

Fair enough, not all childcare is available now but by June it should be as everything opens up

What are you basing this on? Many childcare providers have permanently closed, what’s being done to make up those places? I’d love to get your insight here.

The idea that society owes parents support because they worked terribly hard throughout the pandemic is laughable and incredibly self-centred.

Absolutely no one is saying that. We do, however, need childcare provision, and things are going to get very hairy for working mothers in particular if this is not addressed.

What would help at this point would be government recognition of the importance of the childcare sector, and urgent support to get it up to capacity.

But given the number of people on a parenting site who seem totally unaware of why childcare is needed or how reduced the supply is at the moment, that’s probably not going to be happening any time soon. The number of people who’ve said “schools are open now”!

Some people seem to like sticking their fingers in their ears lalala saying childcare is open where they are so it must be the same everywhere. No one seems to realise how many nurseries have closed down permanently. Who picks up the overspill of children?? Nobody.

And to use the example of supermarket workers, HCPs etc haven't been taking their kids to work is fucking unfair because you all know very well that key worker children were prioritised.

Some of you have no empathy at all. The real face of this is many will have to quit their job should they be required back in the office while childcare is still like gold dust in many areas of the country.

Fair enough, not all childcare is available now but by June it should be as everything opens up

That’s massively optimistic. A good number of childcare providers have closed permanently during the pandemic.

Also many holiday clubs will still be hindered in the summer because of uncertainty. We normally have 60 kids a day, plus around 25 more for lunch club. I have to apply for the funding/organise registration for that in the next few weeks, but I have no guarantees yet that I’ll be able to use the school building we use. We have a long lease on one room and we ad hoc lease other rooms (games hall, dining hall etc). We’ve not been allowed in the building since last year.

I’ll have to order supplies by May, but if I don’t have a guarantee I’ll get able to run then I can’t because funding/parent deposits will have to be returned we don’t open, which obvs I can’t do if I’ve spent it. If I don’t order until I have the guarantee then the supplies might not be available and we can’t run with no supplies...

And I’m one of the lucky ones as my set up is volunteer led so I’m not dealing with staff wages, pensions, and the likes

[quote Pinetreesfall]@Lockdownbear I earn under £2k a month. £1800 of which normally goes on childcare. My husband works a NMW job. By him quitting and saving childcare during the first lockdown we were able to do it.
He's now an agency worker and we have to pay nursery and wraparound care too - does that make us fortunate? I don't think so. It's pretty crap but you do what you must.[/quote]
You said you'd used nannies, nobody on NMW would even consider a nanny.

Something in your story doesn't add up.

@Lockdownbear
You're allowed to claim back a certain amount of childcare as long as the provider is ofsted registered. Sometimes you have to pay for the nanny to become ofsted registered but then just because one of us is on NMW why would we not use a nanny?! It's not some exclusive club for the rich ffs!

@TheKeatingFive

Fair enough, not all childcare is available now but by June it should be as everything opens up

What are you basing this on? Many childcare providers have permanently closed, what’s being done to make up those places? I’d love to get your insight here.

The idea that society owes parents support because they worked terribly hard throughout the pandemic is laughable and incredibly self-centred.

Absolutely no one is saying that. We do, however, need childcare provision, and things are going to get very hairy for working mothers in particular if this is not addressed.

I am basing it on the fact that by June, everything should be open as normal and in addition, students and people looking for work will be available (and allowed) to babysit/nanny/help and that if there is such a need for childcare, businesses will be opening left, right and centre as we live in a capitalist society. They only closed because people have been looking after their children whilst working. By the end of July (normal school holidays) I would expect things to be running very close to normal and those who need childcare to work from home effectively should be able to access it. Until then, flexibility may be needed as it is unfair to ask people to access what is not there.

I think there were a number of posts late last night which seemed to suggest that working parents were owed help by those without children as they (the parents) had to work so much harder(!) than anyone else in the last year. Society ‘closed’ childcare so parents are owed by society (implication: their colleagues and employees) was another statement. The posts may have been poorly expressed or I may have misread them but I was not the only person to do so.

I am basing it on the fact that by June, everything should be open as normal and in addition, students and people looking for work will be available (and allowed) to babysit/nanny/help and that if there is such a need for childcare

You’re not engaging with the fact that many providers have closed.

And that childcare is a highly regulated sector.

I think people are totally over estimating the degree to which students are willing or even able to provide reliable full time childcare. It’s not actually a solution, just more fingers in ears.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones
You are very naive. I work in the child activity industry and lots of us have basically given up and won’t be providing our usual options this year. Yeah in time there will be replacements but you’d be bonkers to set up a business with the current level of uncertainty. Our margins are super low.
It just isn’t worth it

One of our childcare providers has not reopened because too many of the clients are now wfh and don't need the before school care. They are allowed to be open, doesn't mean they have to!

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]**@TheKeatingFive* @JustLyra*
Fair enough, not all childcare is available now but by June it should be as everything opens up - and people will certainly be available for work if you need help, even for a few hours. The only reason for refusing help then is because people want to save money and nurses, supermarket workers and delivery drivers would probably like to do that too.

With regards to who is responsible for your children, it remains you. We have muddled through and many of us have done more than we did previously. At this point, however, if those with children need those without dependent children to cover for them, that will need reflecting in salaries, so those who are doing more, get paid more and get the choice to say no if they don’t want to pick up the pieces. The idea that society owes parents support because they worked terribly hard throughout the pandemic is laughable and incredibly self-centred. Most people could put forward a case as to why they have suffered.[/quote]
Absolutely agree that going forward, there needs to be either a salary increase to reflect additional duties or a recognition that childless workers can refuse to take those additional duties on.

Someone said earlier that me working an 11-12 hour day wasn't the same as what parents are having to do. That may be true - but just as parents didn't choose to have kids in a pandemic, I did not choose to work 3-4 additional unpaid hours, per day, for the best part of a year, to support other people's families. I've done it because I recognise that the situation is unprecedented and that if I didn't there'd be a huge impact on working mothers. However, I can see that for some there's now an expectation that people like me will continue to do this indefinitely. And, frankly, that's not going to happen.

So, yes - I completely agree that childcare needs to be sorted out by the powers that be.

Mumsnet is a massive site and of course it's not the same people posting on all threads but I wonder if there is anyone posting here who jumped on the 'not supporting pret' threads talking about how the world has changed and people and businesses will have to adapt and it's a shame of course about the job losses but you can't expect people to be forced to support industries/companies that are no longer viable... just food for thought, perhaps.

Anyway, longer term presumably a demand for childcare will mean new businesses spring up so there ought to be opportunities for people here.