To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

It is grossly unfair that those without children are expected to bear the load. Why do you think they should?

Certainly where I work, everyone was bearing the load because there was much more load to bear.

Schools and nurseries closed and parents were expected to homeschool. At the same time, we all had more work to do overall because of the nature of our jobs.

So overall, we had less resource available (because with the best will in the world people just can’t work an intense 8 or 9 hour day and care for a 2-year-old and homeschool a 5-year-old all at the same time), and more to achieve with what we had. So parents worked themselves to exhaustion, colleagues without children worked themselves to exhaustion, everyone was busy and knackered.

What alternative could there have been? Parents all quitting or taking unpaid parental leave would have put even more pressure on their colleagues. It was just shit for everybody.

@TheKeatingFive

It is grossly unfair that those without children are expected to bear the load

They’re absolutely not ‘bearing the load’

Parents supported the closure of childcare to protect society as a whole, at great cost to themselves and their DC. They were put under tremendous pressure to do their jobs while also caring for and homeschooling their children.

In your experience. Not in my experience, as I think I must've said twelve times on this thread. I can accept the reality of it being unfair, because pandemics aren't fair, but consistently being told that my real, lived experience isn't happening is extremely irritating.

It was just shit for everybody.

That sums up covid.
After the first lock down Oxford uni did a study, the worse affected age group was 7 year olds.

Stop and think about it, 7 year olds, just little kids, clearly they'llbe a bell curve of the children older and younger. But kids have been put last through all of covid.

As well as the issue of a child self isolating, a lot of childcare is only open to school bubbles or is taking a while to reopen. DS was due to go to DD holiday club but they had delays in getting DBS for new staff so he was home getting in the way last week.

How would they evidence any of this? How can they guarantee it's only temporary? What if they have a partner in the home who's caring for the DC while they work? Or a nanny? Is that classed as suitable childcare?
A letter from the school/ nursery. Link to website to say they are closed until X time. If they have a partner at home looking after the children, then it's not an issue is it, sane with nanny.

The point is that they can get on with their work without having to care for their children.

There are many people who are genuinely struggling for childcare in the pandemic; not all are just taking the piss. Usually those who assume the worst of others do so because they judge them by their own behaviour
Of course some are, but yes there are people taking the piss, or just using the situation to benefit them financially. It's only fair to try to ensure that it is not the case for individual staff.

I said this before too; what would happen to your company or service if the people that run it all quit? All those calls that can’t be interrupted? Would they be happening now without interruption or would they not be happening at all because there’d be no-one to make them?

It’s a recruiters market at the moment, those jobs would be filled. I think too people in secure jobs aren’t tending to leave because a secure job with a flexible employer is worth it’s weight in gold just now and it’s certainly worth employers and employees working together to find a way forward, which is what the OP has stated it’s her intention to do.

I think part of the answer is good workplace relationships, my manager and I talk about the challenges openly, how I’m managing childcare and the difficulties there, how I prioritise my work and how we meet the objectives I need to meet. I’m not going to lie to her, because that would undermine credibility and trust, she isn’t going to pretend something is ok if it’s not.

Not in my experience, as I think I must've said twelve times on this thread. I can accept the reality of it being unfair, because pandemics aren't fair, but consistently being told that my real, lived experience isn't happening is extremely irritating.

Your lived experience is your experience, mine is mine. In your case I’d be talking to my employer and setting boundaries around my working hours etc, you can’t work 50% more than you do to carry someone else working 50% less - it’s not sustainable in the long term and is unfair. I’m in a singleton post, no one does my job if I’m not there which brings its own pressures - it’s all shit, it’s just different shit depending on your circumstances.

If people can't find childcare they can't find it! It doesn't magically appear just because an employer wishes it

This is very true; however it's a given that, among a minority, childcare can magically "disappear/be impossible" if there's the slightest chance of avoiding going into work

Loving the post about parents "supporting the closure of childcare to protect society" though, when actually many did it simply because they had no choice. Inconvenient, perhaps, that some of us remember the endless posts howling down the idea because "youngsters don't get Covid/are hardly ill if they do"

Loving the post about parents "supporting the closure of childcare to protect society" though, when actually many did it simply because they had no choice.

Wait, I’m getting confused. Are we selfish and entitled for wanting childcare to stay open, or are we selfish and entitled for keeping our kids at home? I’m sure I’ve done terribly wrong by somebody somewhere but it is very difficult to keep up. You seem something of an expert on how parents are selfish slackers, perhaps you could advise?

Are we selfish and entitled for wanting childcare to stay open, or are we selfish and entitled for keeping our kids at home? I’m sure I’ve done terribly wrong by somebody somewhere but it is very difficult to keep up.

Hmm, I’d love some clarity on that too. Any takers?

Again why is it always assumed that parents are slackers and people without kids or grown up kids are always picking up the slack of piss taking parents.

Nobody picks up my slack at work, nobody, even when i am on holiday, it just gets left.

What i am fucking sick of is helping my child free colleague who claims she is too busy to hit her timescales. No she is being a piss taking slacker and expecting us all to pick up her work.

Wait, I’m getting confused. Are we selfish and entitled for wanting childcare to stay open, or are we selfish and entitled for keeping our kids at home? I’m sure I’ve done terribly wrong by somebody somewhere but it is very difficult to keep up. You seem something of an expert on how parents are selfish slackers, perhaps you could advise?

It seems by definition being a parent makes you selfish and being childfree automatically makes you a virtuous, non-slacking, hard working colleague always hard done by those parents and their offspring. The hatred for working parents on MN is the weirdest thing I have ever come across

Again why is it always assumed that parents are slackers and people without kids or grown up kids are always picking up the slack of piss taking parents.

I think people realise that parents of young children have struggled trying to look after them whilst continuing to work.
My employer was fantastic for these people allowing them up to 50% paid leave during the main lockdowns to provide childcare.
Employees without young children picked up the slack, meaning they generally worked longer hours than normal.
In my case I had a double whammy, as I have secondary school children, so I was judged not to need time off to look after them, but I still had to work longer hours to cover those who did take time off, whilst actually finding that I couldn't leave my children entirely to their own devices all day every day.

I don't think the parents of young children were taking the piss or slackers, but I do think they were not appreciative of how much extra their colleagues were taking on to support them, being mostly focussed solely on how hard they personally were finding it.

I'm clearly only talking about my own workplace and others have had different experiences.

@UserTwice Very reasonable post but I suspect you're just going to be told that you're mistaken in thinking anyone was picking up the slack.

(FWIW my company also offered the 50% thing. Understandable, but big impact on the rest of the workforce.)

I think yabu. Yes schools and nursery’s are open but not all after school clubs. Lots of people also rely on family & grandparents to do school runs and watch kids after school. This type of support may no longer be available for a lot of people especially if the only thing making it possible to work in the first place was family providing free childcare.

It’s fair enough when people are in meetings, you don’t want to have to stop to deal with children but I don’t think it’s fair to force parents to find and pay childcare while they are working from home if they can still do their job, especially if they are no longer able to go back to their pre covid situation.

Are we selfish and entitled for wanting childcare to stay open, or are we selfish and entitled for keeping our kids at home?

Neither, necessarily - the claim I was addressing was that parents had somehow supported the closure of childcare out of an altruistic wish to protect society, when the reality was that they had no choice in the matter

Neither are the majority of parents "selfish and entitled" IME ... just the ones who seem to feel that childcare should be made anyone else's problem except than their own

@UserTwice

Again why is it always assumed that parents are slackers and people without kids or grown up kids are always picking up the slack of piss taking parents.

I think people realise that parents of young children have struggled trying to look after them whilst continuing to work.
My employer was fantastic for these people allowing them up to 50% paid leave during the main lockdowns to provide childcare.
Employees without young children picked up the slack, meaning they generally worked longer hours than normal.
In my case I had a double whammy, as I have secondary school children, so I was judged not to need time off to look after them, but I still had to work longer hours to cover those who did take time off, whilst actually finding that I couldn't leave my children entirely to their own devices all day every day.

I don't think the parents of young children were taking the piss or slackers, but I do think they were not appreciative of how much extra their colleagues were taking on to support them, being mostly focussed solely on how hard they personally were finding it.

I'm clearly only talking about my own workplace and others have had different experiences.

We were not offered anything, parents and non parents all have to work their normal hours, no flexibility was given for the fact kids were at home, no slack being picked up by anybody else.

Neither, necessarily - the claim I was addressing was that parents had somehow supported the closure of childcare out of an altruistic wish to protect society, when the reality was that they had no choice in the matter

I’m quite open about not supporting school closures, the first lockdown had a horrible impact on my two and I was absolutely not in favour of a second round of school closures. In the end I had to get on with it, but it certainly wasn’t an altruistic choice on my part. Most of the parents I know felt similarly.

As it stands I’ll be catching up on workload for quite some time because of the impact of lockdown - I ran myself ragged trying to keep all the plates spinning and am now still running to stand still with the kids back in school. Nothing martyr like happening here.

but I do think they were not appreciative of how much extra their colleagues were taking on to support them

Apparently I need to clarify that the following statement is my own experience....

I absolutely guarantee I am putting in way more hours and am carrying the load of at least two child free colleagues who were slackers before Covid and have continued to slack during Covid. I’m doing this to the point that his clients have requested I be moved to their projects because they have missed every single deadline they have been set over the past 12 months.

So, no. I’m not appreciative of my child free colleagues. None of the other child free colleagues offered to step in and pick up the slack for these two arseholes either. They were too busy, apparently - although their SM is full of them enjoying long walks, cycles and waxing lyrical about how lovely their games of golf were. If I hadn’t have done it we would have lost those clients. Obviously this is not important to them, but I care if my employer has to make cuts because our clients are leaving as I can’t afford to lose my job.

@MintyMabel I'm sorry to hear that. I wouldn't be appreciative of those colleagues either!

@MintyMabel your colleagues sound like they’re lazy arses regardless of whether they have children, I’d be livid too.

Yep. Slackers with or without dc are bad news for others

I absolutely guarantee I am putting in way more hours and am carrying the load of at least two child free colleagues who were slackers before Covid and have continued to slack during Covid

Same here. Where I work, the mother's, particularly single mums, have to work much harder to prove themselves because of the assumption, as usual, that they won't be pulling their weight / trying to game the system / take time off for school runs without giving it back etc etc because they have children.

Generally I would say YANBU but I think you need to bear in mind that individual’s circumstances and be a little flexible. As others have said, some may have be using family members as childcare and due to the childcare bubbles this could be causing a problem. I know it did for us as MIL was looking after my youngest and BILs youngest pre pandemic, and now that you’re only allowed one childcare bubble it’s no longer possible.

And as others have said, wraparound childcare is still limited. Our schools breakfast club and after school club has not been operating at all.

What planet are you living on? Lots of schools aren't offering any breakfast clubs or afterschool clubs and there are very few holiday clubs. Tricky to get a place pre Covid now their numbers have been reduced to minimum numbers it is virtually impossible.