To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

Fine in theory but if childcare isn't available eg wraparound or holiday clubs what are they going to do?

I've always used holiday club at school - it hasn't run since covid started. I also used my dm for some childcare. She is 84 and hasn't had her 2nd jab yet. No way is Ds8 spending time inside with her & taking school germs etc into her home.

So, for now, he is home with me. No other choice.

Our childcare (school/wraparound & holiday club for DS6 & nursery for DS3) is back but only 90% ish of what it was. Nursery are still closing at 5pm to “deep clean” instead of 6.30pm which means I can’t work past 4.45pm as need to collect on time. You can’t use two different sets of childcare as nursery don’t want you to mix bubbles - they changed the contract to enforce this.

DS6 can only go to one wraparound club for the same reason and on one of weekdays i work they are full so he’s at home on a screen instead for a few hours. I try and make up lost time most evenings but it’s definitely not back to normal.

I work from home and my job is on the nhs Covid frontline response. I’ve had my child home with my for nearly 80% of this time - homeschooling and school holidays. My work has never suffered and I’ve never underperformed. If fact, I’ve worked longer and given more and my child’s education has not suffered. What is your problem with this! I personally have managed to successfully carry out everything that has been asked of me - without childcare. I had a Childminder but have not needed to use her which has, in turn, saved me so much money. What is your issue with this? Surely it’s none of your business so long as I’m not failing in my job? Employers just don’t trust staff to do their job without them constantly scrutinising and overseeing their every move. Which we have proved is really not required. It’s you with the trust issues.

Never mind productivity as an employee, if you have a DC under 6 at home and are also trying to do a FT job and choosing not to use childcare then you’re a shit parent.

"I'm not disputing the fact that it has affected childcare in some areas unfortunately- but I am not wrong in stating that Early Years providers could remain open during the period of National Lockdown.

If providers had to close due to lack of staff/children then that is different.

(Sorry OP, for getting off topic regarding your original post but early years childcare (where possible!) has always been open)"

You are wrong actually. In Scotland all nurseries were closed from March to August for all but key workers children and again in January and February.

But the vast majority of office roles allow for plenty of flexibility

For one person. The trouble is now everyone wants flexibility within core working hours, making collaboration extremely difficult. For example if you have 6 direct reports with a scenario that looks like this:

A has childcare but needs to do drop of, so not available before 9:30.

B has toddler at home for morning (DH does afternoons) so starts at 7am but needs 10-11 off as that’s when DC is awake from nap.

C doesn’t have DC but wants to do her regular Pilates class over lunch so is unavailable 11:45-12:45.

D has a DC who is in reception so short days who can m occupy himself for a couple of hours before mum takes over but needs picking up from school so he’s unavailable 1:15-2pm.

E has older DC who used to get public transport home from school, which she no longer considers safe so unavailable 3:00-3:30 whilst she collects them.

F Needs to do nursery pick up at so unavailable after 4:45

All perfectly valid reasons for small amounts of flexibility but means the team as a group are extremely limited in terms of group availability.

@Herecomesspring1

I work from home and my job is on the nhs Covid frontline response. I’ve had my child home with my for nearly 80% of this time - homeschooling and school holidays. My work has never suffered and I’ve never underperformed. If fact, I’ve worked longer and given more and my child’s education has not suffered. What is your problem with this! I personally have managed to successfully carry out everything that has been asked of me - without childcare. I had a Childminder but have not needed to use her which has, in turn, saved me so much money. What is your issue with this? Surely it’s none of your business so long as I’m not failing in my job? Employers just don’t trust staff to do their job without them constantly scrutinising and overseeing their every move. Which we have proved is really not required. It’s you with the trust issues.

I'm curious how you have managed this? How old is your child? Are they nearly completely self sufficient?

@Herecomesspring1

I work from home and my job is on the nhs Covid frontline response. I’ve had my child home with my for nearly 80% of this time - homeschooling and school holidays. My work has never suffered and I’ve never underperformed. If fact, I’ve worked longer and given more and my child’s education has not suffered. What is your problem with this! I personally have managed to successfully carry out everything that has been asked of me - without childcare. I had a Childminder but have not needed to use her which has, in turn, saved me so much money. What is your issue with this? Surely it’s none of your business so long as I’m not failing in my job? Employers just don’t trust staff to do their job without them constantly scrutinising and overseeing their every move. Which we have proved is really not required. It’s you with the trust issues.

Agree with @TheOrigRights. If your child is young enough that not using a childminder is saving you tons of money, and yet you were able to homeschool and do childcare 80% of the time while on covid frontline response... Then you've got to wonder whether your hours need cutting or your child needs a lot more attention.

I see both sides of this.
I had to prove my childcare by showing my nursery contract to HR (I am a permanent home worker). If there is no childcare available e.g. if nursery shut for whatever reason I would be expected to source alternative childcare like a nanny - and I would likely be given 3 days or so in which to do it.
Those saying they "can't" find childcare - really have they exhausted all avenues?
I work for a well known charity on under £30k so no don't have pots of money to splash but you do what you must to keep your job! My alternative would be to resign.

@Herecomesspring1

I work from home and my job is on the nhs Covid frontline response. I’ve had my child home with my for nearly 80% of this time - homeschooling and school holidays. My work has never suffered and I’ve never underperformed. If fact, I’ve worked longer and given more and my child’s education has not suffered. What is your problem with this! I personally have managed to successfully carry out everything that has been asked of me - without childcare. I had a Childminder but have not needed to use her which has, in turn, saved me so much money. What is your issue with this? Surely it’s none of your business so long as I’m not failing in my job? Employers just don’t trust staff to do their job without them constantly scrutinising and overseeing their every move. Which we have proved is really not required. It’s you with the trust issues.

Frontline response from home, what? Have you been having covid patients into your home? If you have homeschooled alongside working, the threshold for underperforming must be quite low? Unless you mean you did homeschooling and then working in the evenings?

Those saying they "can't" find childcare - really have they exhausted all avenues?

I had a really tough time getting school-aged childcare even before the pandemic, so I can absolutely believe it's even harder for some people to find it during.

My contract also says I can't work from home without childcare and, if my normal childcare falls through, it's up to me to sort out an alternative. My employer thankfully dropped that requirement over the last year when it just hasn't been possible to sort out alternatives for so many of us. It was deeply miserable working from home with primary and nursery aged DC though and God knows why anyone would ever want to do that out of choice.

@HunterHearstHelmsley Same here - no furlough but parents all given carte blanche to credit themselves up to half their weekly working hours. Those without kids did a lot of unpaid overtime instead. I don’t think that this thread (or maybe this site) is going to care, though - apparently it’s all for the public good so doesn’t matter if we’re knackered.

@Pinetreesfall

I see both sides of this. I had to prove my childcare by showing my nursery contract to HR (I am a permanent home worker). If there is no childcare available e.g. if nursery shut for whatever reason I would be expected to source alternative childcare like a nanny - and I would likely be given 3 days or so in which to do it. Those saying they "can't" find childcare - really have they exhausted all avenues? I work for a well known charity on under £30k so no don't have pots of money to splash but you do what you must to keep your job! My alternative would be to resign.

I note your child is nursery aged, there is a massive difference between working and looking after a nursery aged child who needs constant interaction and their bum wiped and keeping an eye on a school aged child who is fairly self sufficient, who'll potter playing with toys, reading, gaming.

You really can't apply the same rules. Nurseries are now open and bubbles can be managed, but not all out of school care is.

As I said earlier in the thread, the parents of young kids where I work were working 50% of their hours and those without childcare responsibilities were picking up the rest.

@trixies you've made this point a couple of times. I know it's hard to work extra hours without pay but I think you're missing the point of what others are saying about the shared load. Parents were literally working 6am -1am for weeks and weeks in many cases. You picking up additional hours and even working an 11 or 12 hour day still is not the same. Parents were adding 8 or 9 hours extra childcare to their working day.

It isn't a competition, it was shit for us all. But honestly, you did your bit, and you weren't any more hard done by than anyone else.

It was (and still is) shit for most of us. No one is going to cover for parents indefinitely though. You are picking up extra childcare because they are YOUR children - those without children have no ‘responsibility’ to help those who do. Do try to explain this ‘shared load’ again? You are genuinely expecting others to cover for parents and receive no extra pay for doing so? Is that really what you mean?

@Wateruniform

As I said earlier in the thread, the parents of young kids where I work were working 50% of their hours and those without childcare responsibilities were picking up the rest.

@trixies you've made this point a couple of times. I know it's hard to work extra hours without pay but I think you're missing the point of what others are saying about the shared load. Parents were literally working 6am -1am for weeks and weeks in many cases. You picking up additional hours and even working an 11 or 12 hour day still is not the same. Parents were adding 8 or 9 hours extra childcare to their working day.

It isn't a competition, it was shit for us all. But honestly, you did your bit, and you weren't any more hard done by than anyone else.

This is a pile of steaming hot shite.

You chose to have DC. They were not forced upon you. Some people chose not to. Pandemic or not, it is entitled as fuck to expect the unchilded to cover for free.

@Wateruniform I’ve been talking specifically about my company - where parents were adding 8-9 hours of childcare onto a working day that could be cut in half (3.5 hours) with no pay consequences. No parent was working the hours you mention - specifically because the company allowed them to reduce their working hours by half. That was accommodated by the non-parents taking on the additional hours.

I’ve never said that we’re any more hard done by than anyone else, and I’ve done those additional hours unpaid for nearly a year. My point is just that my patience is wearing thin - I feel for parents, I really do, but workers without kids aren’t there just to be relied on indefinitely. Employers like mine do seem to see it that way though.

@ivfbeenbusy

Lots of employees are using WFH to save money on childcare...... no one is productive with primary age and younger Children at home

I'd be staring all employees return to the office

Grandparents are largely vaccinated now and childcare bubbles have always been in place so there really is no excuse

So in your world, everyone has unlimited access to grandparents who can do childcare whenever? Honestly, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a lot of people can't "use" grandparents for childcare for a variety of reasons (living far away, them not being alive, wanting to provide care, being no contact...).

I agree that I wouldn't be happy if any work calls were interrupted by kids (lockdowns aside, that was expected, I have a toddler myself), but once everything is back to normal and all provisions are open, I'd expect people to utilise them.

How would your staff prove they have childcare in place? If there is another parent at home or they're using family for childcare they won't have any proof. Or will you not ask for proof?

@Lockdownbear I have two nursery aged and one school aged child.
We've had to use agencies and temporary nannies before to cover wraparound care when clubs / breakfast club / holiday club haven't been running.
It costs a fortune but surely that's just what you do if your employer has specific stipulations?
Apart from during the first lockdown nannies etc have been allowed to operate.

Who is going to pay a nanny to supervise school aged children who either entertain themselves or go out with their pals?

Especially While their parents are sat in the house?

Your forgetting its not that long ago from the days of the latch key kids who were expected to look after themselves afterschool with no parents about.

I'm taking about younger ones. They still need supervision at 6/7/8 - they don't go off with their mates!
Other workplaces are likely different but if a child needs supervision during the working day we have to have the appropriate care in place.
Surely you wouldn't leave a young child unsupervised all day? They need watching, stimulation and care! Not stuck in front of the tv.

Apart from during the first lockdown nannies etc have been allowed to operate.

Not for all of us they haven’t. Even now, in my part of the UK, you can only use a nanny if you are the only family using that nanny - so even if you can find an available nanny you have to contract them full-time, not just for the e.g. two afternoons a week you might need after-school care.

Surely you wouldn't leave a young child unsupervised all day? They need watching, stimulation and care! Not stuck in front of the tv.

I wouldn’t do it willingly again, but plenty of young children spent a lot of the last two lockdowns stuck in front of the TV, including mine. It was shit for everyone involved.

You have three kids, what did you do with yours when schools and nurseries were closed? Did your employers really not flex their “must have childcare” policy even when childcare wasn’t legally available?

@Pinetreesfall

I'm taking about younger ones. They still need supervision at 6/7/8 - they don't go off with their mates! Other workplaces are likely different but if a child needs supervision during the working day we have to have the appropriate care in place. Surely you wouldn't leave a young child unsupervised all day? They need watching, stimulation and care! Not stuck in front of the tv.

Mine are 7 and 9 and manage fine all day in the other room with TV, lego, colouring and they can go into the garden to play

I agree the rules have been complex. Most of the lockdowns in England my child's children were in nursery which reopened on 1 July 2020 and has not closed since and then for the older one school except for when that stopped but they have an au pair who lives in (and that by the way is legal too although expensive in the sense you have to give up a bed room or sleep with your children to make space)

There are loads of students looking for jobs at the moment - vast vast numbers who are clever and many have years of babysitting experience and are brilliant at helping 5 years plus children to do school work or just do lego with them whilst parents work at home.