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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To insist my staff have childcare in place?

999 replies

willandgrace · 07/04/2021 10:10

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

OP posts:
Abraxan · 07/04/2021 21:26

It has!! There was a great sigh of relief in January when the Government stated Early Years childcare in England would continue as usual and be open to all, without having to close like we had to during the first lockdown in March last year, unless we had children of keyworkers

It's certainly not been fully open for all round here throughout and still isn't working at full capacity.

Just because I'd could open doesn't mean it all did, or that it all did in the same way with the same numbers.

Even more so for wrap around care for primary school children.

I've listened to many parents discussing their struggles to get full wrap around care and, as posted above, I know at my own school there has definitely been a big drop in availability.

trixies · 07/04/2021 21:31

@TheKeatingFive

No, the attitude.

What attitude would that be? Both me, my husband and my children have made considerable sacrifices to keep standards up at work while schools/childcare have been shut. Thankfully my own work appreciate that and did what they could to help me. Looks like other people weren’t so lucky.

I don’t like the attitude that you don’t think workers who’ve had to work a lot of extra hours for no extra pay deserve any sympathy, because of the public benefit of everyone’s children being looked after at home. Thankfully my colleagues who are parents don’t tell me they don’t care about my well-being because I happen to not have kids. That attitude.
HouseofWindsor · 07/04/2021 21:31

Yanbu. Some are now raking the piss ' I can't attend that meeting because it's little Freddie's lunch time '

I can't attend that meeting (3pm) because little Freddie needs picking up from nursery ( nursery closes at 6pm)

The urgency of lockdown has now passed.

Employers and those with older children have covered for long enough.

Siepie · 07/04/2021 21:34

If the work involves long calls with vulnerable clients, I'm surprised that the employees have ever been able to work while in sole charge of small children.

DP works in mental health. Her employer made clear from the outset of the pandemic that calls had to be made somewhere without interruptions. I can't even quietly slip into the home office to grab my charger in case I overhear something.

I don't know what the legal position is. I don't know that the same childcare as if they were in the office is necessary, especially for older children. Anyone who has had to repeatedly cut calls short due to constant interruptions does need to find a solution, though. That's just not acceptable at all for vulnerable service users.

TheKeatingFive · 07/04/2021 21:35

Thankfully my colleagues who are parents don’t tell me they don’t care about my well-being because I happen to not have kids. That attitude.

Who said people don’t care about your well being?

The sacrifices that were made by many families working with children at home were very significant. Parents working late into the night to cover hours, with weeks and weeks of very little sleep. Children ignored for hours on end, parked in front of screens.

No I don’t think it’s unreasonable that employees without children should share just a little that load. Given that, as I’ve already said, it was for the public good.

ToffeePennie · 07/04/2021 21:36

So pre pandemic, we used a combination of a nursery, both sets of grandparents, great grandparents, my cousins/aunties and my goddaughter and her parents.
We can still only have 1 childcare bubble along with the nursery. That means that for
certain days a year I have ZERO available childcare. So what can I do? Legally I cannot allow the previous arrangement to go ahead. But if my husbands boss/my boss said that we “had to have it in place” we would be screwed. Luckily my husbands boss is really good and understands if he isn’t present at a certain time he will always make up the time later on. Because his boss is a) understanding about childcare issues and b) knows a good employee when he has one.

ParadiseIsland · 07/04/2021 21:36

Which raises the question as to WHY not all facilities have reopened.....

There is definitely a part of those people who have decided to wait it out thank to government support (many reasons incl shielding/organisation issues...). So spaces that COULD be there actually aren’t.

And it also shows that, as a society, we are dependent on each other.

trixies · 07/04/2021 21:40

@TheKeatingFive

Thankfully my colleagues who are parents don’t tell me they don’t care about my well-being because I happen to not have kids. That attitude.

Who said people don’t care about your well being?

The sacrifices that were made by many families working with children at home were very significant. Parents working late into the night to cover hours, with weeks and weeks of very little sleep. Children ignored for hours on end, parked in front of screens.

No I don’t think it’s unreasonable that employees without children should share just a little that load. Given that, as I’ve already said, it was for the public good.

Yeah, I don’t recognise this in my workplace at all. As I said earlier in the thread, the parents of young kids where I work were working 50% of their hours and those without childcare responsibilities were picking up the rest. So, yeah - it wasn’t “a little”, and your comment rankled me. We clearly had very different experiences though so I can see where you’re coming from.
TheKeatingFive · 07/04/2021 21:41

Which raises the question as to WHY not all facilities have reopened

I know of a number of private nurseries / childminders being run by older people near retirement who just didn’t want the risk or hassle anymore. Understandable.

The problem is how plug the gaps left by them.

TheKeatingFive · 07/04/2021 21:42

We clearly had very different experiences though so I can see where you’re coming from.

Cool. I’m not a fan of pisstakers either, I must say.

1678bfj7 · 07/04/2021 21:45

If people use up all their annual leave now then what are they going to use for school half-term, and school summer, let alone the rest of the year? There's no guarantee the clubs will be open later in the year.

Whilst a few people may be taking the piss, of the many people I know the issue is 100% lack of holiday clubs/wraparound care due to the spillover impacts of the pandemic on providers.

I'm in the fortunate position to be able to chuck money at the problem - but there's nowhere to chuck the money. I've even frustratingly, like many others, got thousands saved in childcare voucher accounts, which can be used to pay after school and holiday clubs, and there's no clubs open to take the vouchers.

bananapalms · 07/04/2021 21:48

I work part time as a professional, wfh for time being (previously office based). I went back in Feb following mat leave fromFeb 2020 and I'm struggling as it is to find my feet.

Wrap around care for both children isn't available at all, child minder won't accept me due to nursery and my parents being our childcare bubble. My husband is a key worker and cannot work from home, my in laws are treating us as lepers due to children in nursery. If I couldn't work with them at home, I wouldn't be able to work. I do extended days in order to meet my billable hours. It's hard.

KoalaOok · 07/04/2021 21:48

I thought that was partly what furlough was for? If they can't find childcare they can be furloughed?

Wineiscooling · 07/04/2021 21:49

I had a phone call today to say my after school club won't be operating until September. My husband and I have been able to juggle things so far between us, he works from home and partly from home as in I have to have face to face with clients daily but I do my office Work at home. Soon my husband will be travelling with his work again which means it is down to me to get the children from school. I can work from home whilst they're there and they are luckily old enough to be happy with an iPad for 2 hours so I'm not disturbed but there is nothing I can do about my childcare arrangements and if I am forced into the office after 3pm I am very stuck. However, I firmly believe I'm more efficient working at home, too much distractions in the office with chit chat! I accidently pressed YANBU but I meant YABU

TheKeatingFive · 07/04/2021 21:50

I thought that was partly what furlough was for? If they can't find childcare they can be furloughed?

It could be requested. It wasn’t guaranteed.

sparklefarts · 07/04/2021 21:52

I don't think your unreasonable at all. I can't even imagine how I would say to my boss, 'sorry no, I'm not using childcare or taking annual leave, il be working and looking after my kids at the same time during holiday whether you like it or not'

But on another thread, I've been labelled a twat because of it 🤷‍♀️

KoalaOok · 07/04/2021 21:53

TheKeatingFive thanks I had no idea it wasn't guaranteed. Sounds a right nightmare for parents

TheKeatingFive · 07/04/2021 21:54

I'm not using childcare or taking annual leave

What about a situation where you can’t get any childcare or don’t have annual leave left to take? That’s what people are talking about.

KoalaOok · 07/04/2021 21:54

Should definitely be using up the annual leave for time off to look after their children. But if the company can manage without them for their annual leave period then they might be able to furlough them.

KoalaOok · 07/04/2021 21:55

I think companies have to give people longer to adjust to the new normal.

Throwntothewolves · 07/04/2021 22:01

I think it depends if it's affecting their work. It's none of your business what childcare they have in place provided they can do their job effectively and having the children around does not affect their work. If it does affect their work and they don't seem to be trying to do anything about the situation then you can work with them to find a solution, or options to allow them more flexibility.
YABU to insist on childcare though as it is no where near as available as it was pre-covid, whether that be formal or informal arrangements. In addition bubbles are frequently bursting resulting in kids being at home self isolating so childcare is not available for them out with their household.

cyclingmad · 07/04/2021 22:15

What will start to happen is businesses wanting people back in offices again. So I think its on both sides to be flexible and fair so benefits of wfh can continue for both sides.

If childcare us available then pay for it so you can do your job properly otherwise dont be surprised if your being asked to go back to the office. Far better to still save on commuting costs then have to pay that again.

Lockdownbear · 07/04/2021 22:16

@KoalaOok
I requested Furlough or I'd have considered leave of absence in January when I was homeschooling and looking after a just turned 4yo and it was refused.

Lots of companies are refusing to use Furlough, some have been guilt tripped into paying money back and it still costs the business money in NI and stuff.

How on earth are parents meant to cover about 10 weeks of homeschooling, and 13 weeks of school holidays with 4 weeks annual leave?
23 into 4 doesn't go. Even two parents staggering holidays 23 weeks into 8 doesn't go!

Parents are burnt out they need a proper holiday. Not taking annual leave to home school. I just can't believe what people are expecting parents to do.

BTW I'm Scotland our nurseries were closed to the 21st of February. I'm glad I only work 3 days but it was exhausting working, homeschooling and child minding it LO.

TuvoknotSpock · 07/04/2021 22:17

I think you're right to focus on the summer holidays when holiday clubs should be reopening.

Fwiw I think my workplace has a good policy, childcare must be in place whilst WFH. When a child is isolating they are expecting you to do what you can but understand that might be very little. If there's any further problems you liaise with the manager (who is very fair).

Historically there s also been paid emergency leave if a child is sick

HunterHearstHelmsley · 07/04/2021 22:31

[quote Lockdownbear]@KoalaOok
I requested Furlough or I'd have considered leave of absence in January when I was homeschooling and looking after a just turned 4yo and it was refused.

Lots of companies are refusing to use Furlough, some have been guilt tripped into paying money back and it still costs the business money in NI and stuff.

How on earth are parents meant to cover about 10 weeks of homeschooling, and 13 weeks of school holidays with 4 weeks annual leave?
23 into 4 doesn't go. Even two parents staggering holidays 23 weeks into 8 doesn't go!

Parents are burnt out they need a proper holiday. Not taking annual leave to home school. I just can't believe what people are expecting parents to do.

BTW I'm Scotland our nurseries were closed to the 21st of February. I'm glad I only work 3 days but it was exhausting working, homeschooling and child minding it LO.[/quote]
The child free are exhausted too. I can only speak for my workplace but we are the ones who have had to cover it all.

My company furloughed for childcare purposes. The pay off for the staff remaining is pick of annual leave dates for this year and next. The child free can't be worked to the bone instead.

I've got to say, I'm looking forward to my long weekends over the next two summers.