To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

@DastardlytheFriendlyMutt, I’ve seen that in my home country too.

With one caveat. The companies who offer childcare on their premises are BIG companies. Not your standard SMB for obvious reasons: not enough children.
It never covers before and after school (again practicalities) and companies are receiving help from the government/tax deduction.

For all the others, you have the same struggle than here to find a CM, nursery etc...

@1FootInTheRave

Haven't read the full thread as it's far too long.

How would you even know if they had childcare or not?

If the work standards have dropped isn't that a separate issue?

They have, OP has said that sensitive calls have had to end early due to disruption from children. Acceptable during a pandemic, I don't imagine so much going forward once things reopen.

@MarshaBradyo London, no, he is at primary school. Get someone in the home? No, my son has attachment disorder, someone he doesn’t know looking after him is really not an option, even if it was he needs someone fairly proficient in BSL.

My employer, a huge university, is trying to change the work philosophy from ' presenteeism' to ' productivity '. It needs a responsible attitude by the staff though, and no piss taking or ' outrage' when the inevitable checks and appraisals are done.

Unfortunately , flexible/home working for some simply means doing less and doing household chores doing the day. In a questionnaire about flexible working, a few replies were along the lines of ' It's great , I can take the dogs out for a longer walk' and ' it gives me more time for child care ' , with no caveat about the flexibility would still mean they did the job properly.

A lot of employees are still woefully short of a proper WFH environment as well. Personal laptops and kitchen tables are no substitute for work computers and an office.

There is a lot consider with flexible working , and as the OP is discovering, staff sometimes think it's all about them without considering the affect on the employer.

If I was our HR department for example, I would be instructing line managers to ask the following questions of employees :

1. What restrictions will WFH /Flexi working have on your role?
2. What benefits do you envisage there will be for both you and the company.
3. How will you assess how productive you are? , how productive compared to the workplace ?

I think there are going to be a few stalemates between staff and managers as the months go by; employees may go where flexi working can be guaranteed - it will become the biggest consideration now the benefits of it have been shown.

[quote SimonJT]@ParadiseIsland

We aren’t out of lockdown. How do I magic a childcare place when they aren’t available where I live?[/quote]
Schools and nurseries are open.
I know many CM who have carried on working Through this last lockdown.
CM have never been stopped from working.

If you are struggling to find a CM, it’s not because of the lockdown and not being out of it yet.

What's concerning is a lot of them are coming from women. The attitudes to working parents in particular mothers during COVID have made me seriously think about moving. I worked abroad in my early 20s and was surprised how family friendly and supportive the country I was in was. Women return to work and are really supported to do so there isn't even a question of not returning to work, and support is given and childcare even funded by companies. Being a mother to young children in this country feels like the hunger games tbh

The U.K. has one of the most expensive childcare options. But the difference is created partly by state intervention.

For example some posters think it’s ok to have more flexibility which means someone else at work picks up their workload for no extra pay or the client receives lower quality.

Primary wrap around care is patchy. Ours normally opens for the holidays. This year they can't justify it for the numbers.

Primary kids need supervision, someone in the house, but they aren't as full on as pre-schoolers.

There is also a massive difference between them pottering around playing with toys, watching TV etc and trying to homeschool them.

@ThatWouldBeEnough

YABU. Manage your staff by their output and not by putting rules in place that try to get more out of the lazy fuckers (who will still be lazy) but penalise those that will still deliver (who will get demoralised that their hard work isn’t getting recognised).

The OP has already said the quality of work HAS dropped, through staff wfh! Plus she has also said that “It is difficult when meetings etc are being interrupted by kids”, which is not only impacting on the employee who’s kid has done the interrupting, but on the rest of those taking part in the meeting as well. *@Scottishskifun says “Childcare is very expensively”!!!* Yes, it may be, but that is not the employers fault. Those who took office based jobs would have had to pay for this anyway, prior to working at home.

One of the biggest issues which has been highlighted in previous threads re. wfh, is that those staff who don’t have kids or who do go into the office have to take on a bigger load of the work to account for their colleagues who are looking after young children during their working hours! This isn’t fair on them. If people want jobs and to work from home then they need to ensure that their child(ren) are suitably cared for without disturbing their parent during working hours.

@willandgrace you are DNBU. The only thing I would suggest though is, that obviously if a child is ill or has to isolate, some leeway is given in these instances and the employee is allowed to wfh during these episodes.

Depends on ages. I’ve wfh since before my daughter was born (she’s 10 now) and I manage a team with lots of full time homeworkers. Pre Covid I’d have said that child care covering office hours was mandatory for any kids below school age and preferred for those still at Primary. Some are quiet and unobtrusive so if I never see the kids or the impact of the kids then I don’t worry. Mine comes home from school, gets her own snack and then watches TV quietly downstairs until I finish work.
During Covid it’s harder to get childcare and family care options aren’t always available so I’d want to know the plan for childcare going forwards and when they’d had more cover. I wouldn’t expect them so they had no plan if they had little disruptive kids.

[quote SimonJT]@MarshaBradyo London, no, he is at primary school. Get someone in the home? No, my son has attachment disorder, someone he doesn’t know looking after him is really not an option, even if it was he needs someone fairly proficient in BSL.[/quote]
Is he ok in wrap around care / summer clubs? What do you usually do?

You are being MASSIVELY unreasonable. Our school after club is closed for the foreseeable, and local childminding club services have not resumed yet. They will in time, but not yet.

People managers need to acknowledge this. We are not in a post covid world yet. Ugh, you do not sounds like a reasonable manager!

@ParadiseIsland I can’t quote a quote.

A significant number of schools have not restarted their wrap around care, for those that have most have very limited places so that children remain in their bubbles. This is directly because of lockdown.

Schools and nurseries are open.I know many CM who have carried on working Through this last lockdown.CM have never been stopped from working

I find it hard to believe people are this self absorbed. There is a whole world out there that is not all about you and your experience. SOME schools and nurseries are open. SOME are not. You may know CM that carried on working, but many did not.
Try to get into your tiny mind that things may be different for people that are not you.

@MarshaBradyo Wrap around care with his keyworker, summer is a mix of annual leave and unpaid leave.

If you are struggling to find a CM, it’s not because of the lockdown and not being out of it yet.

Many childminders are taking fewer children than they were before because of lockdown, and where I live they all had lengthy (like 1yr+) waiting lists before covid anyway.

If childcare is not available, then it’s not available. The demand exceeds the supply at present.

If childcare isn’t available then it isn’t available but what would people do if they were told to be back in the office next week?

If childcare isn’t available then it isn’t available but what would people do if they were told to be back in the office next week?

Panic. Take leave. Fuck knows...but its not relevant to most people as they won't be just told to be in the office next week.

If you are struggling to find a CM, it’s not because of the lockdown and not being out of it yet.

This is manifestly not true, supply has not recovered, as many on this thread are testifying to.

Supporting childcare opening back up fully needs to be a big priority now, otherwise working mothers (mostly) look set to be badly affected.

YANBU and I say that as someone who decided not to book DD into holiday club over Easter.

My DD is in Reception, and as DH and I are key workers has attended school all throughout lockdown.

I've WFH for the past year, DH can't WFH and we agreed that DD needed to spend time away from school and so didn't book her into holiday club, this week, and particularly as DH is on short shifts this week.

This really depends on ages etc doesn't it? I have zero desire to try to work with my preschooler there, and he goes to the childminder whenever they are open in this pandemic.

My daughter is ten and has never interrupted me whilst working, but schools are open for that age.

I think you have to have some flexibility whilst this is still ongoing, and if someone is actually not productive then deal with them.

@Everythingfromhome

My employer, a huge university, is trying to change the work philosophy from ' presenteeism' to ' productivity '. It needs a responsible attitude by the staff though, and no piss taking or ' outrage' when the inevitable checks and appraisals are done.

Unfortunately , flexible/home working for some simply means doing less and doing household chores doing the day. In a questionnaire about flexible working, a few replies were along the lines of ' It's great , I can take the dogs out for a longer walk' and ' it gives me more time for child care ' , with no caveat about the flexibility would still mean they did the job properly.

A lot of employees are still woefully short of a proper WFH environment as well. Personal laptops and kitchen tables are no substitute for work computers and an office.

There is a lot consider with flexible working , and as the OP is discovering, staff sometimes think it's all about them without considering the affect on the employer.

If I was our HR department for example, I would be instructing line managers to ask the following questions of employees :

1. What restrictions will WFH /Flexi working have on your role?
2. What benefits do you envisage there will be for both you and the company.
3. How will you assess how productive you are? , how productive compared to the workplace ?

I think there are going to be a few stalemates between staff and managers as the months go by; employees may go where flexi working can be guaranteed - it will become the biggest consideration now the benefits of it have been shown.

This is a good breakdown of it. Couldn't agree more.

Sorry - posted too soon...

It was a long 4 hours this morning, trying to juggle work and trying to keep DD entertained.

I wasn't at all productive this morning, and so should have taken the week off (dh is off next week). Thankfully my company isn't driven by presenteeism, but on what we achieve. I will work flexibly around DH's shifts for the rest of the week

In future, DH and I will have to have a more robust plan in place, so YANBU to insist that if you are WFH during the holidays that your employees have childcare in place.

YABU - a lot of after-school clubs, childminders etc are not operating as normal at the moment. And there's still the risk of school bubbles closing if they have positive tests amongst staff and students. Until we have achieved an element of herd immunity through vaccination and all normal childcare services have resumed, there may be nothing your staff can do.

You don't know how easy or difficult it would be for somebody to get child care. Where exactly does your authority stop? Do you believe that you can dictate to people how they are going to run their lives in their own homes? If the work is being done then I don't believe that you have any room to complain.

Whilst schools are open, pre, after-school and holiday care is not, for a multitude of reasons:

• not economic for the private companies who run the clubs given number restrictions/bubble requirements,
• issues with hiring external venues where clubs often held (church halls) and insurance,
• school's own clubs off due to insurance issues around external visitors, need to deep clean school every day etc.
• some clubs prioritising key workers
• private school holiday clubs only opening to their own pupils, rather than whole city as usual
• holiday clubs require you to book & pay for whole week/fortnight even if you only need a day or so, to maintain bubble integrity
• the very few holiday clubs still able to open are selling out within minutes.
• clubs being held outside all day, in the rain, whatever the weather (it snowed here yesterday the kids were icicles)

Meanwhile there's a shortage of nannies where I am because they're almost all students and have been sent home from uni. We also can't do usual swaps with other parents, due to bubbles and rules about taking other kids home on an ad hoc basis.

So my kids are at school in the day, except the school day finishes earlier than before, cutting my day short, I then collect my kids and carry on working while supervising them and their homework. In the hols I'm mixing work, childcare and annual leave.

No one in their right minds would actively want to combine working from home whilst looking after their kids.

The pandemic disruption is far from over for parents, please keep being sympathetic. On top of all the issues above, even when the kids are in schools or club, it only takes one positive lateral flow test before the whole year is sent home for 10 days, and this keeps happening. If too many teachers have to isolate, then the school has to close their classes too.