To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

But OP seems to be looking to the future, mid June it is anticipated most things will be reopening and guidance is likely to change from WFH if you can, so employers can ask employees to come back in. Childcare is permitted to open now, aside from wraparound care which no doubt will by next academic year at the latest, but if people cannot secure any childcare now, I'm not sure how these places are financially supporting themselves and whether they will ever reopen; probably time to re-evaluate plans.

@willandgrace

Again, not trying to antagonise a genuine question (I am already rethinking my approach and looking at summer holidays and core hours to offer a bit more support) what would people do if their employer said they had to go back to the office?

Another one who would have to quit, sadly We have extremely limited childcare options at the moment. Current wraparound care and the only option in our village is prioritising children registered pre-covid The usual alternative after school clubs I used to rely on aren’t running, apparently one has folded At the moment, the manager of the holiday club isn’t sure about provision for the half term/summer holidays, as she’s not stew what the capacity will be It’s a constant worry

On the face of it YANBU, but there are no breakfast or after school clubs at my dc school now. There has been no mention of these happening next term either. Childcare providers are thin on the ground. Many parents are just working very late whilst kids are intermittently on screens.

@Sansaplans

But OP seems to be looking to the future, mid June it is anticipated most things will be reopening and guidance is likely to change from WFH if you can, so employers can ask employees to come back in. Childcare is permitted to open now, aside from wraparound care which no doubt will by next academic year at the latest, but if people cannot secure any childcare now, I'm not sure how these places are financially supporting themselves and whether they will ever reopen; probably time to re-evaluate plans.

Actually, no - the OP states "I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home" ie the requirement is in place now as I understand it.

I think many will have to quit when they're required to return to the office. It's already been widely reported that women have been disproportionately affected by covid/work/childcare and this won't just end when restrictions lift.

Perspicacious and others

You are presuming people have enough room to cope with DC and have no other issues. That with Covid-limited child care options at the moment, bubbles and bubbles bursting they can cope. Or that they live in areas where child care is magically available or affordable.

would that be an acceptable question at interview? where do you live, do you have superfast broadband, back up childcare if your own childcare doesn't work or schools are closed? Can you afford a nanny at £35000 a year who'll do wrap around?

Or that they have a Zoom ready free space they can "dress" for calls. Or that they have satisfactory bandwidth available, let alone affordable, on their domestic pcs/laptops. And keep the heating on.

As for the PP who said "there are lots of unemployed, you'll find more employees if you have to let go those who can't find childcare" WTF?

@namechangeaga1n

On the face of it YANBU, but there are no breakfast or after school clubs at my dc school now. There has been no mention of these happening next term either. Childcare providers are thin on the ground. Many parents are just working very late whilst kids are intermittently on screens.

You also need to take into account after school sports clubs and activities ie NOT wrap around care as such, but really useful for the older kids, just to keep them occupied out of the house longer.

My son's school has 'enrichment' twice a week for an hour after school.
Normally it's a chance to do sports, creative pursuits, music, chess clubs etc, but it has not run at all this academic year.

The kids can still stay at school, as the busses are booked to run later on those days, but the school provide supervision for homework. Loads of kids don't go (collected by parents I presume). My son does and hates it. It's noisy and boring.

Just small things like this make a big different to a parent juggling full time work and raising a family.

I think you need to talk to your staff not to mumsnet.

would that be an acceptable question at interview? where do you live, do you have superfast broadband, back up childcare if your own childcare doesn't work or schools are closed? Can you afford a nanny at £35000 a year who'll do wrap around?

No but asking if a staff member is able to fully focus on work without competing demands is, asking if staff have an appropriate space and facilities to work from home is, asking if staff have a private space for sensitive, confidential discussions is. It’s ok for an employer to expect that staff working from home have the necessary facilities required to do all parts of their job.

Reading this thread, it is easy to see how gender equality in the workplace is going to take even more of a nosedive. Some of the attitudes are really depressing.

@Jellycatspyjamas

would that be an acceptable question at interview? where do you live, do you have superfast broadband, back up childcare if your own childcare doesn't work or schools are closed? Can you afford a nanny at £35000 a year who'll do wrap around?

No but asking if a staff member is able to fully focus on work without competing demands is, asking if staff have an appropriate space and facilities to work from home is, asking if staff have a private space for sensitive, confidential discussions is. It’s ok for an employer to expect that staff working from home have the necessary facilities required to do all parts of their job.

OP presumably didn’t hire them on the premise they’d wfh 100% and is probably very grateful they’ve obliged when it was required.

As someone who has 8-6 childcare 5 days a week it wouldn't be an issue for me, but wraparound childcare isn't as readily available at the moment as it has been previously, we're still in the pandemic aren't we? You will have those isolating, shielding, people who want as little contact with others until vaccinated as possible whilst covid is still very much a problem.

I'm with you on maybe looking more at the summer when everything should be a bit more 'normal' and open.

I can sort of see this from both sides.

Definitely agree that it's not OK to have kids interrupting during phone calls with vulnerable clients - I think that's really unprofessional.

However I can also see from parents' point of view that things must be really difficult at the moment and if nurseries aren't open then there might not be a lot else they can do.

If people are doing it just to save money on childcare then that is of course wrong, but if they are doing it because there is no other option then I don't know what you could expect really. Perhaps they need to plan their day better so at least a partner could have the child in another room or something?

Tbh it probably requires conversations with individual staff members who are dealing with this situation, to find out more about what's going on with individuals and why this is happening. Do your staff understand that it's highly unprofessional and can't carry on? Are they putting plans in place for the Summer/ post-lockdown?

I think implementing anything right now would be a bit too soon but it's not unreasonable for you to be expecting your staff to be putting plans in place for the Summer when things open up even more. It probably just needs a direct conversation with your staff.

OP presumably didn’t hire them on the premise they’d wfh 100% and is probably very grateful they’ve obliged when it was required

Indeed, and presumably the staff members were equally grateful not to have been furloughed with a resultant drop in salary or made to take unpaid leave, presumably they’ve appreciated the flexibility offered thus far and understand that ending sensitive calls because of disruption by children isn’t professional or appropriate and so can’t continue.

@SpareBib

Reading this thread, it is easy to see how gender equality in the workplace is going to take even more of a nosedive. Some of the attitudes are really depressing.

What's concerning is a lot of them are coming from women. The attitudes to working parents in particular mothers during COVID have made me seriously think about moving. I worked abroad in my early 20s and was surprised how family friendly and supportive the country I was in was. Women return to work and are really supported to do so there isn't even a question of not returning to work, and support is given and childcare even funded by companies. Being a mother to young children in this country feels like the hunger games tbh

@Scottishskifun

I think it is unreasonable yes. Its not to say that your staff should have nothing in place but on several levels it's an unreasonable request.

1: Childcare is very expensive and usually set hours. We have cut our nursery hours down to a school day because Wfh we don't have an hour commute so don't need as long. It saves considerable amount of money to families.

2: Many alternative childcare options aren't available at the moment still

3: Many nurseries and childminders have gone bust as a result of the pandemic it's extremely hard to find spaces

4: Help from families is limited due to the rules

If your staff are getting their work done and still wfh be a good employer who is flexible and understands the issues not demands that your staff magically fix a very difficult situation right now!

Sorry but 1- ys it’s expensive but that goes with having children 2- the rules allow childcare bubbles.

When in lockdown accomadating parents struggling with childcare is normal. When out of lockdown (which is the case. Schools back since beg of March), expecting to look after youur dcs whilst working is taking the piss. Unless they are 10pyo and over

Reading this thread, it is easy to see how gender equality in the workplace is going to take even more of a nosedive. Some of the attitudes are really depressing.

Going by the type of work it seems OP does though, it isn't effective from home. I think it's fair enough if an employer can't justify ongoing disruption to sensitive calls because of children being around long term, once wraparound care etc has reopened.

When out of lockdown (which is the case. Schools back since beg of March)
We are not out of lockdown. There are set to be restrictions til at least June.

@ParadiseIsland

We aren’t out of lockdown. How do I magic a childcare place when they aren’t available where I live?

Are your workers key workers? The clubs round here can’t open to you unless you fall within the massive key worker definition. Also they are limited on numbers, availability of childcare is limited. I am not sure if your requirements are realistic in the pandemic but can understand why you would want them too. In reality I would rather not work from home and honestly resent my home, which is not set up for work, having to become my workplace. So I think there has been quite a lot of give and take in the assumption home is now a fair place to expect workers who are not homeworkers to be, I don’t have an office here for example. It is a tricky one though, just being honest about how I feel sometimes

Haven't read the full thread as it's far too long.

How would you even know if they had childcare or not?

If the work standards have dropped isn't that a separate issue?

Reading this thread, it is easy to see how gender equality in the workplace is going to take even more of a nosedive. Some of the attitudes are really depressing.

There isn’t a good way to let calls be interrupted by children.

It obviously impacts the client.

The attitudes to working parents in particular mothers during COVID have made me seriously think about moving.

It is quite depressing just how many people pivoted from “of course you can’t WFH with kids without childcare” pre-covid, to “of course you can work just as efficiently with schools and childcare closed, stop whining and get on with it” during lockdown, to “of course you can’t WFH with kids without childcare, how ridiculous” now.

Mine are too young to work properly with them around really and lockdown was hell and I am beyond glad I’ve got childcare again now. But there’s still a gap where breakfast club once was. Hopefully won’t be too long?

[quote SimonJT]@ParadiseIsland

We aren’t out of lockdown. How do I magic a childcare place when they aren’t available where I live?[/quote]
Where do you live is your dc nursery or school aged? Can you get someone in the home?