To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

So baffled that you sought advice from mumsnet rather than your HR department and or legal department

It’s not fair to staff to have to use annual leave for childcare for more than emergencies.

Plenty workers up and down the country have no choice but to use their annual leave during the school holidays. I am on the minimum wage, I can’t afford to put my children into nursery or use holiday clubs. So like many people we split our holiday entitlement up between us. During normal times, grandparents are happy to take them for a few days here and there, so we as a family can have a week or two together.

Another issue I have come across - those without children are being expected to give up their flexibility. I have a long standing commitment that means I finish at 3pm every Tuesday. I start early on different days to accommodate this. The colleague who does the same job as me cannot finish early that day, and I stay until 5pm if she is on leave. This has been in place since early 2014.

Now she has decided she won't use after school club as she can work from home with the children and save the money (its quite a pricey one she uses, £12.50 per hour). She is expecting that I will stay on at work until she collects her child and then I can finish. This absolutely cannot happen. She has been told it is not an option. I'm very curious to see what is going to happen when the schools go back after Easter. There is a meeting that one of us has to be in on a Tuesday. I won't be there and have reiterated. I expect it will be performance management and possibly a disciplinary if necessary.

It doesn’t reflect well on you as a manager

TheJerkStore
You got there first lol 😂

That is unacceptable. Unless your colleagues are single parents, you could assume that their other parent deals with children

Some families have 2 working parents

Things haven't settled enough yet for you to start putting pressure on people. Childcare is definitely not as available and often, you can only use one form of childcare, due to bubbles, and that limits things even more! I really don't think anyone enjoys working from home with their kids in the background - it's stressful and exhausting. It really doesn't take long for companies/ corporate type people to start blaming and putting pressure on workers for the circumstances we are in! Have you thought how hardworking staff have been in the past year to keep things going while having kids at home with no choice whatsoever? It has been hideous!

The flexibility that my employer has shown working parents has essentially involved redirecting the work to childless employees. I get it, we all get it, but my patience is running really thin with it. Anyone at my work saying that they'd like to continue avoiding to pay childcare (rather than having another option) would get short shrift from me, given that I'm working their extra hours. That's an employer-problem, sure, but who's going to resign in the middle of a pandemic?

I agree with others, though, OP - you need to tackle individual productivity, not create blanket rules. That's how I've ended up in the position I'm in - parents were given carte blanche to give themselves weekly flexi credits of up to 50% of their contractual hours, regardless of how old their children were.

Just to add another perspective. My 26 yr old dd is furious as she has a new project manager who has children so has decided to spend 2-6pm each day doing the school run, having tea and supervising homework. She then catches up by working 6-10pm. This is fine for her but the rest of the team, including my dd, are not happy with having work calls scheduled for 8.30pm as they want to have logged off by then. I don’t think it unreasonable to expect someone to take into account what works for their colleagues and clients as well as themselves.

YABU

A lot of "normal" childcare options are not available and even where they are parents may be loathe to allow their children to mix more than absolutely necessary.

We are in a pandemic. You need to be more flexible and look at individual circumstances.

Someone providing sole care for a baby or toddler more than likely cannot work effectively from home. Someone with a fairly self-sufficient 10 year old and a partner at home probably can very easily. A blanket approach is unhelpful here.

We do have a home working policy but it doesn't cover this scenario - the quality of work has definitely dropped, even though most staff are adamant they are more productive than ever

But OP, why are you trying to solve the personal problems of your employees instead of addressing the thing that is impacting you as an employer - their quality of work has dropped.

Yes, it may be the case that several people's quality of work has dropped, and it may be the case that they all have children at home, but I think YABU to focus on dictating how they manage their personal lives instead of focussing on the issue that's impacting your business, which is the quality of work being insufficient.

@Gizlotsmum

Easter holidays + no holiday clubs (see many PP) = annual leave

Which in theory is great but what about when half (or more) of the team needs to take the same leave? How do you decide who can and can’t? Especially if all have no childcare alternative available?

We have to put in requests for school leave the year before. DH does most of the holidays as he doesn’t have anyone else in his department who wants the time off. However, he doesn’t have enough leave to cover all of it. I just got Easter from the work rota. No time off over Christmas which ends up usually being the compromise. Then again, it’s been snowing here so more Christmassy than December was.

You need advice from a solicitor not from all of us. It is a complicated legal issue.

You may be able to force them back into the office - which will solve the issue.

I have worked from home (for myself) since 1994. With the youngest children I would often have to lock my office door and work even if they were pounding on it and kicking it - yes that happened - although they always had someone.

It cost me £30k a year including employer NI to pay for the twins' full time child care at home from 8am to 6pm ! Not a single tax off set or anything allowed for that. A very unfair world. IO was about to write that it is so much easier now (which it is) but it is still costing over £50k a year including this year's law course fees and allowance! Hopefully the end will be in sight in 2 or 3 years' time (and no I don't look after or pay for my grandchildren as I have now done my bit since first baby came in 1984).

it will be about 40 years of financial dependence all in for the 5 children by 2024.

@KatharinaRosalie

That is unacceptable. Unless your colleagues are single parents, you could assume that their other parent deals with children

Some families have 2 working parents

Exactly!

When schools were closed there were huge chucks of the day when both me and DH were in meetings (or in my case teaching) at the same time.
It was massively shit for our 5 year old. Why would you voluntarily do this if childcare is a available?

YANBU but you do need to take account of Covid-specific circumstances.

I think it is fine to ask all parents to have a school/nursery/childminder/nanny place for their under 10s. Or a written letter from grandparents providing care. Yes, many parents may have relied on grandparents to provide care prior to Covid who are now shielding but, quite frankly, that's not your problem and they'll have to look at alternative childcare solutions.

Where you need to show flexibility is around holiday/afterschool childcare and bubbles closing/children having to isolate. Many of the usual options are unavailable. I'd explain to staff that there is an expectation that they will have childcare but, if they really have no options, they need to come and talk to you.

Really, wfh without childcare should be the last option for parents. The children suffer too...inadequate exercise, attention and largely neglected and left to their own devices.

@KatharinaRosalie

That is unacceptable. Unless your colleagues are single parents, you could assume that their other parent deals with children

Some families have 2 working parents

Exactly, that’s why it’s potentially indirect sex discrimination to try to enforce the woman to prove she has childcare in place.

Yanbu but things have changed in the childcare world. Nurseries have shut down etc. You can demand what you want but you'll lose maybe really good staff - when it's out of their control.

I think what would annoy me is that when we were in lockdown, we were expected not only to carry on working but also to "homeschool" our children, not just supervise/look after them. It was fine for employers to demand that employees continued doing their full hours/getting through the same amount of work and bugger the children (there were many threads on here where that was the employer's attitude), but when the parents can get it to work to their advantage, suddenly it's not allowed.

My employer wasn't like that by the way, they were great and said "just do what you can" to everyone, which made people more likely to make the effort to get through their normal workload by working early or late etc, but occasionally just accept that you can't do it all.

My children are at home this holiday because holiday club spaces are very limited at the moment. They leave me alone when I tell them to and I make time in my day to be with them so they don't feel ignored. Whilst I'm still working from home I don't see why I would need to spend a small fortune on childcare. Different when we're back in the office of course.

@MeltsAway

It is difficult when meetings etc are being interrupted by kids

That is unacceptable. Unless your colleagues are single parents, you could assume that their other parent deals with children if your colleagues are in meetings or client calls.

But it’s a pandemic and you might find that you’ll get more cooperation from your colleagues if you try to work out a reasonable compromise.

Core hours when there should be no interruptions

Ability to work flexibly- could you do some sort of log-on and off record. So if a working parent does some non-time dependent work in evenings or weekends, to meet agreed deadlines, they could shorten the day time hours outside agreed core hours? A WFH flexitime arrangement?

That might save staff annual leave.

It’s not fair to staff to have to use annual leave for childcare for more than emergencies.

But it’s also not fair that staff work part-time for a full-time salary

And it’s also not fair on staff without children or with appropriate childcare arrangements that they shoulder extra work.

Their other parent?? What if they are working?? Mine is in construction so on site every day. Fat lot of use he is during my 5 hours a day of meetings.

Exactly, that’s why it’s potentially indirect sex discrimination to try to enforce the woman to prove she has childcare in place.

Who is only asking women? The OP said staff not female staff.

My pets are 100 times more distracting than my kids!

the rest of the team, including my dd, are not happy with having work calls scheduled for 8.30pm as they want to have logged off by then

Anyone who expected me to do a call at 8.30 at night would be told to bog off, whatever the reason. I am well into a glass of wine by then.

If they don't work 2-6 they can schedule calls for before 2pm - within a normal working day. It's up to the other staff to say it doesn't work for them.

Where you need to show flexibility is around holiday/afterschool childcare and bubbles closing/children having to isolate. Many of the usual options are unavailable. I'd explain to staff that there is an expectation that they will have childcare but, if they really have no options, they need to come and talk to you.

Really, wfh without childcare should be the last option for parents. The children suffer too...inadequate exercise, attention and largely neglected and left to their own devices.

This is what should happen.

@TheJerkStore

Exactly, that’s why it’s potentially indirect sex discrimination to try to enforce the woman to prove she has childcare in place.

Who is only asking women? The OP said staff not female staff.

Yes the OP said staff but in 99% of cases people mean "female" staff. Lets be real.

It is difficult when meetings etc are being interrupted by kids

I think it's unprofessional when they are interrupted by animals, but for some reason, that's fine, because they have fur and are cute (in the eye of the beholder).