To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

Oh god this is what I fear my work will say. They’ve been so understanding so far. I am so frazzled. I feel like I’m spinning a million plates. I didn’t plan for this but I have a 3 year old who does term time hours in preschool and a one year old who was supposed to go to my in-laws when I returned to work. They live next to DD’s preschool so would have picked her up too.

Both in laws caught covid in December (my mat leave ended mid January). MIL hospitalised and ventilated for weeks and hospitalised for months. She - thank god - was discharged from rehab on Mother’s Day! But is still unable to walk without an aid. FIL looking after MIL so he can’t help with the children, not that I would ask after what they’ve gone through. DD’s preschool has a nursery room but they have no space til September and you can’t mix childcares. I am working around the kids when they nap/sit in front of a film for a second/go to bed at night or on weekends when DH comes home although I am not legally allowed to work Sundays. It’s hell, I’m baked. If my office said something like this I genuinely would just have a melt down because I’m trying my best and I know so many other parents will be in the same impossible position. But I don’t know what I can do? I don’t want to give up my job, desperately don’t. It’s only part time since having kids but I still don’t want to lose that little foot in the door.

My manager has made a point to say since I’ve returned from maternity leave they’ve noticed a big difference in workload but I am paying the price for it in exhaustion..!

Sorry for the ramble - this thread just got me and tapped in to what I fear my work saying to me soon! So many people didn’t plan for this, working from home with kids is hell, I don’t think anyone would willingly choose this?

@NothingIsWrong

In normal times I am required to prove I have childcare for primary aged children to cover all my working hours that I'm at home for. This has been suspended for the last year but I think will be reinstated soon

I simply don't believe this. Firstly how do they know you have kids and secondly why are they asking for proof of childcare?

Employers who do this are breaking the law, because there's no way they are asking men.

@Rukaya

live in England so if the OP is also in England, I am just stating the Government guidance from 6th Jan saying EY providers COULD stay open

FFS, COULD stay open does not mean ARE all open! And who cares where you live? You weighed in agreeing with a poster who said all childcare was open, when it is not. You were wrong and still are.

Sorry, I give in - you are so obviously right (and rude and obnoxious with it!) and unable to see any other point of view but your own so we will agree to disagree and I will sign off and leave you to it 🤦🏻‍♀️ (For the record though, I am fully aware that not all childcare IS open - just pointing out to the op that if early years childcare is being as an excuse for wfh then it may not be correct)

@ThatWouldBeEnough

YABU. Manage your staff by their output and not by putting rules in place that try to get more out of the lazy fuckers (who will still be lazy) but penalise those that will still deliver (who will get demoralised that their hard work isn’t getting recognised).

But that would be open to challenge if some were considered productive with dc at home but others not. How would you measure and judge it fairly? Some primary school children might be self sufficient, others in early secondary less so. Very few preschoolers or ks1 are. Yanbu if you are giving sufficient notice that there should be alternative childcare in place during working hours within a specific timeframe.

YABU.

I say this as someone who does have a child in nursery full time and a younger school aged child.

We used to have wrap around care (before and after school) and holiday clubs for school holidays. This simply isn’t available to us right now, and we do not have any family members to assist.

Yes, we are taking some annual leave to cover the school holidays but we don’t have an unlimited supply. We are still in a pandemic and things aren’t back to normal. There needs to be some flexibility from employer AND employee to agree on a solution, but this may involve some times when children are at home when the employee is working.

@TheJerkStore

Exactly, that’s why it’s potentially indirect sex discrimination to try to enforce the woman to prove she has childcare in place.

Who is only asking women? The OP said staff not female staff.

Indirect discrim is when a policy disproportionately impacts on a category of people sharing a protected characteristic. When it comes to childcare it is still accepted by the tribunal that the bulk of the responsibility falls on women. In practice it does mean the a man could complain about a policy demanding childcare be in place (unless it's a new policy and the man is long service possibly) but a woman could try and argue indirect sex discrim.

That is unacceptable. Unless your colleagues are single parents, you could assume that their other parent deals with children if your colleagues are in meetings or client calls.

Or the other parents works out of the home.

In our situation, I work in a hospital, we have no wraparound care available to us so DH has to collect DC1 from school. He is 5, so reasonably self sufficient, but if he needs help then he will interrupt. It isn't ideal, but I cannot move my schedule to accommodate DHs meetings.

I voted YABU but I guess it depends.

Do your staff have access to their full normal childcare provision?

I have preschool and nursery aged children and it is only from after this Easter break that they will be offering us our normal hours for both children. The wrap-around care for my older child has been limited/non-existent since June last year (and also the preschool day an hour shorter).

I know several parents of school-aged children who don't currently have access to the normal after-school care that they would have had pre-pandemic.

So if you are taking about parents who are finding their usual childcare arrangement is still not available then I think YABU.

If you are talking about parents who are choosing to have children at home during working hours then YANBU.

'In practice it does mean that a man could NOT complaint' etc

@hazandduck

Oh god this is what I fear my work will say. They’ve been so understanding so far. I am so frazzled. I feel like I’m spinning a million plates. I didn’t plan for this but I have a 3 year old who does term time hours in preschool and a one year old who was supposed to go to my in-laws when I returned to work. They live next to DD’s preschool so would have picked her up too.

Both in laws caught covid in December (my mat leave ended mid January). MIL hospitalised and ventilated for weeks and hospitalised for months. She - thank god - was discharged from rehab on Mother’s Day! But is still unable to walk without an aid. FIL looking after MIL so he can’t help with the children, not that I would ask after what they’ve gone through. DD’s preschool has a nursery room but they have no space til September and you can’t mix childcares. I am working around the kids when they nap/sit in front of a film for a second/go to bed at night or on weekends when DH comes home although I am not legally allowed to work Sundays. It’s hell, I’m baked. If my office said something like this I genuinely would just have a melt down because I’m trying my best and I know so many other parents will be in the same impossible position. But I don’t know what I can do? I don’t want to give up my job, desperately don’t. It’s only part time since having kids but I still don’t want to lose that little foot in the door.

My manager has made a point to say since I’ve returned from maternity leave they’ve noticed a big difference in workload but I am paying the price for it in exhaustion..!

Sorry for the ramble - this thread just got me and tapped in to what I fear my work saying to me soon! So many people didn’t plan for this, working from home with kids is hell, I don’t think anyone would willingly choose this?

That sounds hellish Could I ask why your husband hasn’t spoke with his employers to explain the circumstances?

Yes the OP said staff but in 99% of cases people mean "female" staff. Lets be real.

And that's a bigger problem.
I think having childcare in place is beneficial for most working women. If we assume that women are the one's trying to take on childcare at the same time as working then this could have implications on the quality of their work and in turn their career progression. It also sees them taking on additional mental load which impacts their mental health.
This has all been evidenced over the last year. Women's careers have been disproportionately disadvantaged due to the pandemic and this is mainly due to schools been shut and lack of childcare.

YANBU. I've been fortunate enough to carry on working throughout lockdown all be it mainly from home. My son has been going to the childminders daily - which was an extra cost as normally it's wraparound care.
I certainly couldn't have done my job properly with him at home.
Like others have said, there are childcare options available they just might be different and more expensive than normal, but needs to be done I think.

Agree with @Shinyletsbebadguys there are learnings as a manager here @willandgrace

This is the time to begin a discussion and hearing from it our staff about successes and barriers. Their experiences will not be homogenous. Perhaps someone has a child with disabilities, or is the only income earner and has debt from covid or life circumstances. Maybe some do have help and support that they can access again. Childcare is not available as normal. I know so many people that can’t get childcare right now and not for lack of trying. But asking your staff for input as life/work becomes more normal over the coming months will hold you in good stead. Begin to understand barriers, plan for September, address any policies with their input. You will reap the rewards as a manager and company.

Our cm resigned and there aren’t any with openings in my area so dc are home with Dh while he works. Mine are 13, 9 and 9 so you can easily send them away unless they’re bleeding and they entertain themselves and get food and drinks. Staff with younger dc or even a double dc wouldn’t be able to work to a satisfactory standard imo but you’ll find people lie because childcare is expensive. You probably need to set clear targets for individuals and if they don’t meet them then there’s an issue.

Well you’re not unreasonable assuming the employees are able to access the childcare.

My nursery is open so it’s not a problem. Schools are open so that’s not a problem.

But what about people who use family for childcare and have a bubble issue. You aren’t currently allowed multiple bubbles are you?
Or am I wrong?
So if Sally’s kids go to granny A on Monday & Tuesday they can’t then go to Granny B on Wednesday and Thursday can they?

So if they can’t afford nursery fees - which for me are over 1700£ a month, what else can they do?

Do you pay enough so that it’s reasonable for people to access private childcare? Or do you pay NMW and expect them to be in a negative situation - I’m not being goady, this is the reality for some.

On the face of it YANBU but we aren’t totally out of the pandemic yet and whilst we’re still in it then you should extend the understanding that some people will be more affected than others and if you like and value the ones who are affected, you’ll try to find ways to make this work. Whilst being very clear that it is a temporary situation to accommodate the bubble / childcare issue until that restriction is lifted

@MrsWobble3

Just to add another perspective. My 26 yr old dd is furious as she has a new project manager who has children so has decided to spend 2-6pm each day doing the school run, having tea and supervising homework. She then catches up by working 6-10pm. This is fine for her but the rest of the team, including my dd, are not happy with having work calls scheduled for 8.30pm as they want to have logged off by then. I don’t think it unreasonable to expect someone to take into account what works for their colleagues and clients as well as themselves.

I have auto decline set up for when it's outside my working hours. Soz pal, I'll be on a treadmill then!

Sorry if covered
But what if childcare was a nanny in the home environment?

@Lassolarry1980 DH is self employed :( he doesn’t get paid mortgage won’t get paid if he takes the time off.

I know what indirect discrimination is.
I was pointing out that the op hadn't said she was only asking women.

@puffinkoala

It is difficult when meetings etc are being interrupted by kids

I think it's unprofessional when they are interrupted by animals, but for some reason, that's fine, because they have fur and are cute (in the eye of the beholder).

Seen and not heard, that's why. A dog may well bark at the door if someone knocks during your meeting but that is nowhere near as ear-splitting as 'Mummmeeee...' on repeat. Especially if you are using a headset.

Something to take into consideration (if you want) is the feelings of those who do pay for childcare and those who do not have childcare responsibilities. Is there a chance that they could become resentful/dissatisfied?

Not in Scotland it didn't. Closed for all but keyworker children from the beginning of January until 22nd February.

This thread really show the growing sense of entitlement of employees and attitude that employers should do wine run their business sely around not just the needs but the wishes of employees.

What next? People bringing their kids to the office and telling their boss that if they ask for them to sort out childcare, that they will sue them for discrimination?

Yes there is a pandemic but most businesses are back to normal including childcare providers. The onus should be on employees to take every steps to secure childcare not on their employer to accept new practices that has no benefit to the business.

OP, you need to renew your policy about working from home and include that staff will be expected to secure childcare arrangements and exceptions will be discussed on an individual basis. Go through the appropriate prices to get it ratified.

If your staff are not happy, they can look for another job that will be happy for them to look after their kids at home.

@TheJerkStore

I know what indirect discrimination is. I was pointing out that the op hadn't said she was only asking women.

Yes but that's irrelevant. If she has 1 woman in her team she runs the risk of a claim. The fact that she is asking everyone isn't relevant (well it stops it being a direct discrim claim and instead makes it indirect discrim).

YANBU. Of course childcare should be in place now if WFH (unless one of more of the family is isolating).

So if they can’t afford nursery fees
That's not the employer's issue.

My company relocated when .y kids were at school. I was before able to drop them off to a free walking bus and a friend looked after them for 1/2 h after school.

I sudden had an hour's commute and had to put my kids to morning and after school clubs as friend couldn't look after them more than 1/2h.

That was tough, my issue. Ultimate I took another job locally.