To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

We are likely to say that from a certain date people WFH must have childcare

Again, you can say it all you like, but what will you actually DO about it? Nobody appears able to answer this.

In normal circumstances I think its expected people have childcare in place whether WFH or in the office.

BUT

None of the schools near me have reopened wrap around care, and won't be doing until after May half term due to bubbles. Lots of holiday clubs aren't running this holiday, some nurseries have closed or reduced their hours. So if your employees have similar issues, I'm not sure exactly what they can do? It isn't normal times yet, and the normal childcare options aren't available.

As for taking the piss, I think it'll be the same people who take the piss in normal times.

It is difficult when meetings etc are being interrupted by kids

That is unacceptable. Unless your colleagues are single parents, you could assume that their other parent deals with children if your colleagues are in meetings or client calls.

But it’s a pandemic and you might find that you’ll get more cooperation from your colleagues if you try to work out a reasonable compromise.

Core hours when there should be no interruptions

Ability to work flexibly- could you do some sort of log-on and off record. So if a working parent does some non-time dependent work in evenings or weekends, to meet agreed deadlines, they could shorten the day time hours outside agreed core hours? A WFH flexitime arrangement?

That might save staff annual leave.

It’s not fair to staff to have to use annual leave for childcare for more than emergencies.

But it’s also not fair that staff work part-time for a full-time salary

And it’s also not fair on staff without children or with appropriate childcare arrangements that they shoulder extra work.

@ColourfulElmerElephant - no, they've permanently withdrawn them, presumably in the belief that they will always WFH or that they'll try and get a place again if they go back to the office. I was amazed too.

I don’t think it is just about productivity unless you have agreed a certain output to be paid for rather than a number of hours. Either your children are independent enough that you could leave the house and they could look after themselves or they’re not and you need to supervise. If you need to supervise you’re not giving your work 100% attention. What if the kids hurt themselves? Discretion is needed as things get back to normal but I think you need a rigorous policy in place by the June ‘opening up’ date at the latest

@dopeyduck

What's the point in remaining WFH if you insist on children having childcare. You're then still exposed and mixing with others so you might as well be in the office?

What's your goal with WFH? To keep people safe or cut costs?

It also largely depends on the type of work and how flexible it is?

You need to have a policy, put it in place and stick to it. People might leave over it.

I've worked throughout as a key worker but if I was WFH I wouldn't have risked my mum looking after DS as she is CEV and I'd have managed. If work kicked up a fuss, frankly I'd have found something else, family comes first.

Views like that are partly why it's time to get back to the office really. Employers have been told to have staff working from home if they can, but you cannot work as effectively with children around, that's a fact. Why should they accept a reduced output when there are viable options for childcare now available?

Surely it should depend on whether they are able to get the work done or not. You cant dictate that peoples children arent in their home while they are working, but if someones productivity if significantly down compared to being in the office, then thats a different matter

I think if it's the result of eg a bubble bursting, then you should be flexible. If people think that they can carry on WFH with no proper childcare in place, then they are taking the piss. It's been a year. I know it's tricky in some areas sorting childcare etc, but we've done all sorts to make it work and you basically can if you're determined and don't mind throwing a bit of money at the situation (and if people have essentially gone a year with minimal childcare costs, then they've clearly saved some serious costs already).

And I've definitely noticed a lot of people on Mumsnet insisting that their productivity is exactly the same as always, when they're posting in the middle of the morning... Yes, sure, some people's jobs are flexible, but I have my suspicions!

@Countrylane

And I've definitely noticed a lot of people on Mumsnet insisting that their productivity is exactly the same as always, when they're posting in the middle of the morning... Yes, sure, some people's jobs are flexible, but I have my suspicions!

I received a bonus this month due to my productivity levels over the last 12 months, I wasn’t the only parent to earn a bonus.

I’m on unpaid leave.

Ultimately it would be a disciplinary matter

@MeltsAway

It is difficult when meetings etc are being interrupted by kids

That is unacceptable. Unless your colleagues are single parents, you could assume that their other parent deals with children if your colleagues are in meetings or client calls.

But it’s a pandemic and you might find that you’ll get more cooperation from your colleagues if you try to work out a reasonable compromise.

Core hours when there should be no interruptions

Ability to work flexibly- could you do some sort of log-on and off record. So if a working parent does some non-time dependent work in evenings or weekends, to meet agreed deadlines, they could shorten the day time hours outside agreed core hours? A WFH flexitime arrangement?

That might save staff annual leave.

It’s not fair to staff to have to use annual leave for childcare for more than emergencies.

But it’s also not fair that staff work part-time for a full-time salary

And it’s also not fair on staff without children or with appropriate childcare arrangements that they shoulder extra work.

Equally, I dropped my hours to be part time to accommodate the extra childcare except it turns out I’m still expected to do a full time job in part time hours and with part time pay. I do what I can during the daytime and make up the rest in the evenings once the children are in bed or when DH can look after them. I did more than full time hours last week. A lot of us are doing everything we can in terms of work and our families right now. If we need to have our children at home when working, I agree it’s the productivity to look at.

It’s not fair to staff to have to use annual leave for childcare for more than emergencies.

Bizarre, of course it is and what every parent does in school holidays.

Countrylane - everyone is different but my 2 oldest kids are a lot less disruptive than most of my colleagues in the office :)
I agree people shouldnt take the piss and it's unlikely that someone will be able to work properly with a single child under primary school age at home. But I also think assumptions aren't needed and what is needed is the correct focus - on work.

I don’t understand why it’s unreasonable to expect someone to use annual leave to cover Easter holidays - the vast majority of my annual leave is spent during school holidays, if we can’t get childcare my DH and I use our annual leave to cover, not remotely unreasonable.

It isn't sustainable to ask (typically women) to try and do two jobs at once

And yet that's exactly what many still going into work are being expected to do, if they're coverig others who "have to" WFH because of childcare issues

Of course we can say it's a manager's job to organise the workload better, but there really is only so much people can give, especially when there'll be loud cries of "unfaaaiiirrr" no matter what they do

Nobody's suggesting everyone's taking the piss, but as said, for the sizable minority who do it's sensible to be careful what you wish for

@oblada

Countrylane - everyone is different but my 2 oldest kids are a lot less disruptive than most of my colleagues in the office :) I agree people shouldnt take the piss and it's unlikely that someone will be able to work properly with a single child under primary school age at home. But I also think assumptions aren't needed and what is needed is the correct focus - on work.

I think my friend’s triplets who are toddlers are less disruptive than my colleagues.

@Countrylane

And I've definitely noticed a lot of people on Mumsnet insisting that their productivity is exactly the same as always, when they're posting in the middle of the morning... Yes, sure, some people's jobs are flexible, but I have my suspicions!

It’s Easter holidays and a huge amount of parents work part time hours/ shifts around their children

My childminder who fetched my kids from school pre-pandemic is still not doing school pick ups, not quite sure how I will manage around this especially as there are very few childminders in my area

Easter holidays + no holiday clubs (see many PP) = annual leave

Which in theory is great but what about when half (or more) of the team needs to take the same leave? How do you decide who can and can’t? Especially if all have no childcare alternative available?

You are so unreasonable I was convinced this was a reverse.

Yanbu but you need exemptions for school and childcare bubbles bursting and self isolation.

It is a difficult one. Childcare is certainly not as it was pre-pandemic but equally, I know of people who are taking advantage and not using paid childcare whilst working from home.

Some will be genuinely struggling as wraparound care does not exist in the same way it previously did - before and after school clubs are not open everywhere and at restricted capacity in places. Likewise with holiday clubs - many have not opened at all. Some cannot rely on grandparents as they previously did due to vulnerabilities and a good employer will consider all this before insisting the employee must have childcare.

Equally I know 2 couples who have reduced their children's nursery hours to half days to save on cost and have them at home whilst working (both have 2 children in nursery). Of course they can't be as productive when nursery age - they still need constant supervision.

Sounds like your policy needs to be updated and then you can ask individuals to approach you where they are unable to maintain working from home without children present so you can discuss way forward with them rather than them expecting that it is permitted

It’s not fair to staff to have to use annual leave for childcare for more than emergencies.

Why?

That's what all our annual leave is used for!