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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think this divorce term is unfair?

142 replies

joysexreno · 06/04/2021 20:42

My ex was financially abusive and is completely obsessed with money. He strung me along for ages, refusing to reach a financial settlement in our divorce. However, he recently decided it was advantageous to him to settle so we may almost be there.

We have reached a big sticking point. He has agreed to pay basic CMS and half of childcare costs, but wants the childcare obligation to end if my finances improve.

He explicitly refuses to have DD4 during the week because of his important job, so I do all the heavy lifting during the work week. He has her on alternating weekends.

I am afraid that if childcare is dependent on my being sufficiently poor, this would open me up to constant challenges and efforts to examine my finances. It also seems generally unfair.

Aibu?

OP posts:

LittleOwl153 · 07/04/2021 09:46

So as I've said I wouldn't sign it. An alternative suggestion for you as he's a high earner.

He sets up a fund for your DD which covers her nursery costs, afterschool clubs, hobbies etc till the end of the school year she turns 18 - yr 13. At say £250 a week this will cover nursery and then expensive hobbies later. So 14.5yrs @£250 = £188,500. It sounds alot if your not a high earner but it will be nothing to him. Then it is clean break as far as that is concerned. Get it managed independently though if he is a solicitor - you don't want the boys club involved saying what it can and cannot be spent on and charging their fees to it also.

Make sure he also has to pay whatever student finance assess as parental contributions as otherwise you will get landed with that bill too!

RandomMess · 07/04/2021 09:52

This was ALWAYS going to end up in court.

It needs to be a clean break else it will go on and on.

You need to court to establish that you decide on which school she attends, that any hobbies or interests or education he wants her to have he must pay for.

Concentrate on stopping any ways he can use to bully and control you further.

I suspect he wants to finalise now because his earnings have yet again increased. He has gone back on his word/offered settlement so just take it to court - insist on a larger in lieu of his minimal overnight care and your future 10 years of childcare costs and 14'years of education and activities costs. I would ask for him to have to pay maintenance until she leaves Higher Education.

TSBelliot · 07/04/2021 09:54

Court - judges see this shit clearly. My friend had a similarly shit high earning ex - it went well for her. The judge saw through his me big important control freak straight away.

LittleBearPad · 07/04/2021 10:07

What does he mean more? £1 more and he stops paying? £10k more and he stops paying?

Do you intend to send her to private school? Because otherwise at 4 your childcare costs are likely to drop quite a lot.

ClarkeGriffin · 07/04/2021 10:14

No. He doesn't get to opt out when he's decided you're rich enough to pay for his children singlehandedly. They are his children, he has a responsibility to them.

Say no and let it go to court. Let the judge hand his ass to him.

SaintReatham · 07/04/2021 10:17

I think this is one of those occasions when I'd want a solicitor who'd been around the block a few times and knew all the tricks that were likely to be pulled ahead of time.

Artesia · 07/04/2021 10:18

While I agree with a lot of the advice given, I'd just issue a word of caution to counter the "tell him to sod off and take him to court". My divorce went to final hearing as ex wouldn't settle at all. The process took a huge mental and financial toll on me. By the end of it all I spent over £90k on legal fees (not a flashy solicitor), spent a day being cross examined in court on my lifestyle, parenting, expenditure etc. It was really tough.

I'm not saying settle at all costs, but weigh it up in the round. "Going to court" isn't an easy option.

And ironically the settlement we ended up with was within a couple of £k of what is proposed in the first place- the whole process was a massive waste of time, emotional energy and money.

Original poster

joysexreno · 07/04/2021 10:36

@LittleBearPad he doesn't want to define it.

OP posts:

RandomMess · 07/04/2021 10:44

Can you apply to have him pay your legal costs as he refuses to offer and sign a fair settlement? You

LittleBearPad · 07/04/2021 10:48

[quote joysexreno]@LittleBearPad he doesn't want to define it.[/quote]
Well bollocks to that. It would be hanging over you all the time.

The ideal would be a fixed amount that covers CM plus a bit more but you may have to go to court for it.

Worst case you have £1,100 a month which is objectively a lot of money for a 4 year old. I know it’s not fair that he’ll keep the other £9k or so a month and he’s an abusive arsehole etc but a clean break would be better than the extra £x childcare that could be taken away on his whim.

By the way is he a partner? They are self-employed so not PAYE - I’ve understood in the past this can make getting CM harder if they really refuse to pay.

rawlikesushi · 07/04/2021 10:51

I understand all the outrage but, as long as he is paying a fair % of salary in child maintenance, and family assets are being split fairly, then he doesn't, legally, have to pay more. He doesn't have to pay half of childcare costs for the days when dd is with op. I had hoped it was a long marriage so a case could be made or additional support, but 5 years is not considered 'long' in legal terms.

OP, talk to a solicitor who truly understands your chances of success if this goes to court. You could end up paying tens of thousands of pounds for a disproportionate gain.

4Mongrels · 07/04/2021 11:07

I would get a more senior solicitor, someone needs to wipe the floor with him!

4Mongrels · 07/04/2021 11:09

I had hoped it was a long marriage so a case could be made or additional support, but 5 years is not considered 'long' in legal terms.

I thought courts looked at length of the relationship, not just the duration of the marriage?

RandomMess · 07/04/2021 11:20

They usually include years co-habiting directly prior to marriage.

caringcarer · 07/04/2021 11:34

Don't do a private deal as he will be the winner. Go to court. Insists CM is paid whilst child is in education. That means if they go to uni he will have to pay money directly to child after 18 years. My ex had to pay for our child until he was 20 as he went to college but not uni. Tell him he should patent for half of time or else pay childcare for this time instead, either to you or nursery. Don't give him access to your finances after you.ate divorced. It will be none of your business. If you ever decide to work more hours or to remarry that should make no difference to his duty towards his child. He sounds a total control freak. Get your solicitor to knock this stupid idea on the head. A judge will not put up with him dictating conditions on to you after divorce. He will legally have to pay what judge orders him to. I asked for my ex to pay half of any school trips and judge told my ex that was reasonable and ordered he do so. I.did not ask for any maintenance for myself, just our child.

Malbecqueen · 07/04/2021 11:48

If it's his daughter, then it's his responsibility as well as yours. It's not yours but he's magnanimously agreeing to help out.

You need a final, unconditional agreement that you can rely on in the future. The last thing you need is any game-playing in the future.

Go to court. I know it feels frightening and I know that it might feel like he's more powerful - but the Courts are used to these dilemmas and they will come up with an order that puts the interests of your kids first.

rawlikesushi · 07/04/2021 12:10

@RandomMess

They usually include years co-habiting directly prior to marriage.

A marriage can be considered 'long' at 10-15 years.

OP's relationship is 10 years in total - marriage and preceding cohabitation.

I know I sound like a naysayer but I've been through this myself and also seen so many friends go to court, full of certainty and fired up by supportive well-meaning friends and come a cropper.

You really do need better legal advice before making any decisions op, as there is a lot of money at stake.

Alsohuman · 07/04/2021 12:15

@Viviennemary

I think he has a point. Is he even obliged to pay for childcare at all if you have custody. Difficult to judge without knowing how much disposable income he has.

You really love men don’t you? You infallibly take their side, no matter how unreasonable they are.

caringcarer · 07/04/2021 12:28

After I got judge to.make my divorce award on house etc I had to get CSA to collect money for our child on my behalf as he refused to pay. Ex was self employed. In the end CSA threatened to confiscate his passport. That made him suddenly pay all back payments to me as he had a holiday planned with new gf.

Moondust001 · 07/04/2021 12:49

Regardless of how much you earn, the children are always going to be 50% his, so he is being ridiculous. At whatever point in time that you have a big important job like his and earn £millions, then he can apply to the court /CMS for a variation and you can support him. Until then, you should tell him to get stuffed.

RandomMess · 07/04/2021 12:53

It's quite funny because I can assure you this financially abusive miserly bloke has PLENTY of money even after divorce settlement.

He was very proud of stealing loo roll from work to save £ previously.

All he cares about is his money. Note how he isn't wanted shared care that's because child rearing is wimmins work.

With his level of financial abuse a clean break order is the only way. There is some reason he suddenly wants to settle - so the co-habiting & marriage doesn't hit the 10 year point? He is about to inherit? He's about to get a bonus or pay rise?

It's for a reason you just don't know what.

Your only consolation is that every penny he has to give you from the marital property will deeply hurt him.

Take care and don't doubt yourself, he will never make you a "fair" offer because he is incapable.

LannieDuck · 07/04/2021 13:11

[quote joysexreno]@LittleBearPad he doesn't want to define it.[/quote]
It's clear that you aren't in a mental place where you can oppose him, OP. Which is why you need much stronger legal representation.

It doesn't matter if he wants to define the 'additional earnings' term or not - having such a vague term in a contract is unacceptable, and as a lawyer he knows that. He's trying it on, and will try it on as much as possible to see what he can get away with.

If you're not able to push back, you need someone on your side who can do it for you. That means a lawyer who is every bit as pushy as he is. You say earlier that he is not proposing ever to pay more under any circumstances... well of course not! Your side should be proposing those terms. Why aren't they?

He's a lawyer, he knows how to negotiate. He's proposing a position as far across to his side as he possibly can, and aggressively sticking to it because he's not being challenged. That's not inherently unfair / mean / unreasonable of him (well, it is a bit unreasonable), because he's expecting your side to do the same. You don't give away ground in a negotiation unless you have to. And at the moment, he doesn't have to, because your side is meeting him on his terms. You're effectively playing at his end of the playing field. Why haven't your lawyers proposed a position at your end of the playing field, with the intention of meeting somewhere in the centre?

yoyo1234 · 07/04/2021 13:17

Ensure you get pension and property, savings/investments looked into. I do believe that they can deduct pension contributions from earnings before CM payments are assessed (you may find these suddenly increase be the £10,000s.....

DressyGerbera · 07/04/2021 13:36

Op just wanted to wish you good luck. It does sound like you need a stronger solicitor - one that can be as pushy and excuse my language, as much of an ar*le as your ex is so that he/she can fight your corner. A solicitor who has experience dealing with high net worth divorces. Look at other savings, isas pensions investments etc.

WoolieLiberal · 07/04/2021 20:45

Not reasonable at all. Take him to court.

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