Another dog moan - aibu

[Cocothecat27]

I have a small terrier who is quite reactive to other dogs. He's mostly just very barky but he has been known to have a little snap at other dogs if they come up to him, not that he'd do any damage as he's tiny. He seems particularly reactive when he's on lead and other dogs approach him who aren't.

We are working on this, he's still very young. But for this reason he is always on a lead.

Three times this week we have been approached in public places by dogs off lead. The owners always say the same thing - it's ok he/she is fine. But my dog isn't always fine and if he snaps at yours and a fight happens it'll most likely be my very small, on the lead dog that comes off worse.

We had an incident yesterday where a huge dog came bounding over to us which is pretty scary as it is. My idiot dog started going crazy and I had to pick him up.

I tell people sorry he can be a bit snappy at times, as though it's my fault! but if their dog was on a lead too it wouldn't be a problem would it? I'm working on my dog being less reactive but it doesn't help when these things keeps happening. Aibu to find it really annoying?

The problem, OP, is that you're dog is reactive and you have to take responsibility for that first and foremost. Not having a go. Not at all. I know the written/typed word can come across as crass and condescending, but I promise, I am being neither. But all you can do is sweep your side of the street. People are going to have their dogs off lead- big dogs, small dogs. And although you can't bend the world into shape according to your dog's needs, you can certainly help your dog. I'd invest in a behaviour specialist and a 'nervous'/'anxious' coat or lead. Why wouldn't you? I'm surprised you haven't done your dog that favour, if I'm being honest.

At this point, you need to think about what you can do for your dog- he is reactive. You need to work with that reality and go from there.

@Cocothecat27 what are you doing to make your dog less reactive? Because from your posts it seems like your making the situation worse not better. Picking him up, keeping him on lead ect isn't the way to teach him to get on with other dogs.
Is he your first dog?
You need to find a decent dog trainer and start working towards building his confidence around other dogs. Until you have dont walk him anywhere around other dogs because it will be a negative experience. At some point you are going to need to let go and let him play and learn.
In the meantime buy a yellow nervous lead from Amazon and walk him on that. Most dog owners notice and respect that far more than a normal lead.

Other dogs shouldn't approach your dog while it's on a lead but it's awful for you to say your dog snaps but wouldn't cause any damage! Of course any dog that bites can cause massive damage! I'd put a muzzle on him and you'll find people give you a wide birth anyway.

We have a border terrier that's exactly like your dog. She has anxiety issues and is nervous around other dogs. I have to frequently ask other people to put their dog/s on the lead if they approach us along a footpath or in a field. Usually I'll get the "s/he's alright, really friendly". Unfortunately mine isn't, and she's a grumpy little bitch. I'm not saying dogs shouldn't be allowed to run around, but only let them off if they have good recall and you can control them.

Op, sounds like you're mostly embarrassed about your dog than anything else. There are lots of dogs who are like that and keep on leads, so it's not uncommon. The little buggers will start snarling as soon as they see another dog on a lead walking the other way. As a dog owner I mostly feel sorry for the owners who either don't know how to train their dogs properly or have a yappy dog that they can never allow much freedom to and will always be really hard work.

Can you get him a coat that says nervous? Maybe a high vis thing like that would help the idiots see that they should get their dog under control.

SwedishK My dogs like to run too. And do, in safe spaces I know and only when I can be sure recall is perfect. I also have large gardens and wouldn’t have large breeds if I didn’t have the space to exercise them properly if required.

There’s nothing wrong with a dog off lead providing you can recall it when appropriate and ask permission before allowing your dog to approach another animal or person. If both parties agree then that’s fine!

If you did ask me I would politely explain that my dogs are friendly however one has severe arthritis and would be in agony if yours jumped on him.
My second was attacked and is wary of dogs in her face, she also plays very rough and loudly and might frighten a more nervous dog or cause it to react negatively.
My youngest dog is a giant and in training to be a show dog and so I don’t want him learning that other strange dogs=excitement and risk getting carted around the ring. He’s currently in the process of learning to ignore as much as possible. Also a tiny dog wrestling with a giant is probably not safe for the smaller dog, yet I am often unreasonable because I don’t want someone else’s dog unintentionally squashed?

Also if your dog approaches mine and is not friendly, mine are bigger and I don’t want them blamed for a fight breaking out. It’s always the big dog who is blamed even if they don’t start it.

But people don’t do ask, they don’t give other people the chance to explain and instead the dog is shoved in my face before there’s a chance for me to speak. It’s just assumed my dogs are fine, or that I am fine with it, or that my children aren’t terrified of strange dogs. If it’s not fine I am the person in the wrong when I am the one walking with a dog on a lead to heel under complete control. That is the issue.

There’s so many ways to train and socialise your dogs to be around other animals without allowing them to just run off and figure it out for themselves. Mine see dogs at training classes, breed events, agility, ring craft training and obedience clubs. I meet with friends other well behaved and well matched dogs, they play with each-other and have a similar play style.
It does not mean because I walk past someone and don’t allow mine to greet yours that mine are social outcasts.

Finally, it’s actually been brought up in some training groups that ancestrally and also with wild dogs that they generally play and socialise in exclusively family groups to improve bonds. If wild dogs for example meet another wild dog family they are usually defensive and this is something that people are researching at the moment, whether playing with strangers is actually unnatural to some extent. I don't have any strong opinions on this either way but everyone should be able to make the choice for their own pets IMO.

I am currently having that discussion with others in a Bullie group @3ormoredogs. Ours don't seem all that keen on running in a pack/family group. They have been bred to be people dogs. They'll play a bit, usually a bit boisterous and without any aggression, but most will quickly abandon a dog in favour of an interesting looking human.

What many of them want, demand, is human contact, co snoozing and just being in the room with you!

So whilst mone does get off lead walks every week it's mainly so he can run round like a whirling dervish, most often without another dog in sight! A bit like this - WARNING: Gratuitous cute dog picture!:

We've got to know most of the snappy dogs or poorly trained dogs in our local area by sight now and give them a wide berth,

Is your dog muzzled? If you know your dog is prone to nipping, it would be incredibly irresponsible of you not to muzzle your dog whether other dogs around you are on or off the lead. You have a very good reason for keeping your dog on a lead and it is right that it stays that way until you have fully trained and controlled him/her. However for most dogs it is better for their physical and mental health to be off lead therefore you are absolutely being unreasonable if you expect perfectly well behaved dogs to be on a lead because yours isn't controlled. There are of course some people who don't control their dogs off lead but the vast majority of dogs are perfectly safe to be off lead. You can't expect everyone to restrict their dog because yours isn't yet trained.

Have you had him from a puppy? If so why did you not socialise him, now everyone else who bothered to socialise their dog is the issue.

What if your dog snaps at a child would you still have the same the child should be on a lead attitude?

This idea that with ‘socialisation and training’ no dog will be reactive is just wrong. If you’ve got friendly dogs, part of it is due to socialisation, but part of it is also due to their nature and temperament. Lots of terriers are born with a natural predisposition to be arsey with other dogs, no matter what training they have.

I’m heavily involved in dog training, have been for years. I train dogs to competition obedience level. My last two dogs have both had the EXACT same socialisation and training, but one is reactive and one is a friendly soul, it’s how they were born. Yes I work really hard with the reactive one, but part of that is avoiding negative experiences with other dogs, so every time your ‘friendly’ dog bounds over to us and gets stressed out, you undo the positive experiences I’ve given him and the training we’ve done.

He’s now at a point where if a dog runs over, he will sit and look at me for a couple of minutes. Normally this is enough for the other dog owner to realise my dog is stressed and call their dog back - fine. But sometimes you get people who can’t call their dog back. My dog gets more and more stressed and bless him he’s trying his best for me but after 5 mins or so he’s had enough and will start growling and snapping. I always try and avoid this - walk away, go in the opposite direction, call over to the owner politely and ask them to call their dog back, but if they can’t get their dog back, they’re the one who needs to do more training.

Recently I took my dog to an empty field to have a run. No one was on the field when we arrived - brilliant. I let him off the lead and he was playing ball. Someone came onto the field so I walked in the opposite direction and carried on playing with my dog - he won’t approach other dogs, he just wants to play with his ball. I noticed the other dogs bounding across the field to us so I put him on a lead and in a sit, focusing on his ball in my hand. The dogs came over, started sniffing him etc, not getting the message, trying to take his ball feom my hand even. I turned away from them, tried to walk away, the owner called them but they totally ignored her. My dogs getting more and more stressed but he’s still doing his taught behaviours and not reacting. I catch this woman’s dogs and take them over to her. She lets them go again and they come back to my dog - repeat this three times until my dog started to snap. I left.

Who’s the dog who needs more training here? Because I don’t think it’s mine.

My friend from Scandinavia has a rescue and she bluntly asks people to put theirs on lead. This is such an English thing I think to overthink these things.

@prawntoastie

Have you had him from a puppy? If so why did you not socialise him, now everyone else who bothered to socialise their dog is the issue.

What if your dog snaps at a child would you still have the same the child should be on a lead attitude?

You can socialise a dog and it become reaction. It’s a combination of nature and nurture. My dog was socialised exactly the same as every other dog I’ve had and is still reactive. He’s a little feisty terrier, bred to kill furry things, it’s how he was made and my god we work hard to train it out of him, but every time your dog bounds over to mine and you can’t get it back, my dog learns that other dofs make him feel stressed and the best thing to do is lash out at them to get them to go away.

@Obbydoo

Is your dog muzzled? If you know your dog is prone to nipping, it would be incredibly irresponsible of you not to muzzle your dog whether other dogs around you are on or off the lead. You have a very good reason for keeping your dog on a lead and it is right that it stays that way until you have fully trained and controlled him/her. However for most dogs it is better for their physical and mental health to be off lead therefore you are absolutely being unreasonable if you expect perfectly well behaved dogs to be on a lead because yours isn't controlled. There are of course some people who don't control their dogs off lead but the vast majority of dogs are perfectly safe to be off lead. You can't expect everyone to restrict their dog because yours isn't yet trained.

If your dog approaches on lead dogs and you can’t get it back, yours is the dog that isn’t yet trained and needs to be controlled.

To clarify I am absolutely fine with dogs being off lead and playing with other dogs, but you need to be able to call your dog away from anything. If you can’t get your dog back from an onlead dog, you need to be working on training it just as much as I’m working on training my reactive dog.

@prawntoastie

Have you had him from a puppy? If so why did you not socialise him, now everyone else who bothered to socialise their dog is the issue.

What if your dog snaps at a child would you still have the same the child should be on a lead attitude?

The op has already said her dog is a rescue

I own an American xl bully they are bred to eat people and cats. Mine hasn’t eaten either of us yet

@prawntoastie

I own an American xl bully they are bred to eat people and cats. Mine hasn’t eaten either of us yet

Didn’t see it was a rescue dog apologies op. You have a point then.

@prawntoastie

I own an American xl bully they are bred to eat people and cats. Mine hasn’t eaten either of us yet

Mine, apparently, is equally prone to eat people, be aggressive. He has tasted me quite a lot...

I don’t have an issues with off the lead dog as long as the owner recognises that mine is on a lead and therefore they have enough control to recall. If they don’t, they seriously need training.

Equally, my DC know never to approach a strange dog. I expect other people to educate their children to do the same. It’s a basic life skill.

Have you had him from a puppy? If so why did you not socialise him

Sigh.

From the top, things that affect whether or not your dog is reactive include (but are not limited to):

1. Genetics. The breed your dog is and the specific inheritences from their parents. Some breeds have been selectively bred not to be too trusting or accepting of other dogs, animals, people. They have specific genetics that support that. For some breeds, low tolerence of anything that irritates them is just a 'side effect' the the behaviours that were selectively bred.

1. Genetics again. Not JUST breeding now but the thousands of tiny, genetic mutations that happen during normal sex cell (sperm/egg) production. These can make tiny adjustments to the dog's physiology, things like the specific way their brain functions that have knock on impacts on how they react in real life scenarios.

1. Interwomb experiences. Literally, what the puppy experiences whilst still in the womb will affect older dog behaviour. For example, puppies born to mother's who experience stressful situations may have larger and more responsive adrenal glands - this will mean they have greater adreneline reactions to stressful scenerios themselves. This will make them more likely to react. On the flip side, puppies born to mothers that experience absolutely zero stress and are not exposed to any mild stresses themsleves, also suffer with over active adrenal glands - so it's not as simple as having no stress at all.

1. Experiences in the first few weeks of life. Experiences between weeks 4-8 (ish!) are those that have the greatest affect on how a dog will react to other dogs. i.e. before the puppy is taken to its new home it will have already passed the most critical time to learn about other dog behaviour.

1. The food the dog eats. Examples include food high in thiamine (e.g. turkey) can support lower anxiety reactions.

1. The experiences the dog has every day, regardless of age - the learning that provides.

To say "why didn't you socialise your puppy" is a massive simplication of a complex issue. Let's also not forget that reacting to a strange dog is not an abnormal behaviour. Reactive dogs are not broken. We might find it easier and more convenient for them to feel differently about strange dogs. They might enjoy life more if they felt differently. So we might try to manage behaviour is a way best designed to achieve that.

But the instinct to tell a strange dog to eff off, is perfectly normal canine behaviour.

I’d walk him somewhere different. My dogs are always off lead. 99% of the time their recall is spot on. Other times my younger dog gets super excited and it takes a few calls to get her back. I’m not going to keep her on the lead as she just wouldn’t get the exercise she needs if she can’t run around.

There are fenced in places you can take your dog to get it used to being off lead. Dogs often react worse to other dogs if they feel trapped.

All dogs are hazardous and should be kept in (free range, natch) cages, cats are are bastards but for some reason wonderful

Bastard cat owners are full of baloney 😁