Another dog moan - aibu

[Cocothecat27]

I have a small terrier who is quite reactive to other dogs. He's mostly just very barky but he has been known to have a little snap at other dogs if they come up to him, not that he'd do any damage as he's tiny. He seems particularly reactive when he's on lead and other dogs approach him who aren't.

We are working on this, he's still very young. But for this reason he is always on a lead.

Three times this week we have been approached in public places by dogs off lead. The owners always say the same thing - it's ok he/she is fine. But my dog isn't always fine and if he snaps at yours and a fight happens it'll most likely be my very small, on the lead dog that comes off worse.

We had an incident yesterday where a huge dog came bounding over to us which is pretty scary as it is. My idiot dog started going crazy and I had to pick him up.

I tell people sorry he can be a bit snappy at times, as though it's my fault! but if their dog was on a lead too it wouldn't be a problem would it? I'm working on my dog being less reactive but it doesn't help when these things keeps happening. Aibu to find it really annoying?

It happens to us all the time.

I have a small but feisty terrier with very dodgy recall. He's friendly if off his lead and always up for a game but because of a very strong independent streak he is always walked on lead as I can't trust him to come back unless it suits him.

Unfortunately when on lead he really isn't friendly and he WILL snap if approached. I'm sick of it. People round here come out with the inane " Oh don't worry he's friendly" when I'm holding tight to the quivering ball of rage that is my dog. Invariably it ends with them racing to reclaim their precious dog and glaring at me as if it's all my fault!

@Pinkyavocado

I’d walk him somewhere different. My dogs are always off lead. 99% of the time their recall is spot on. Other times my younger dog gets super excited and it takes a few calls to get her back. I’m not going to keep her on the lead as she just wouldn’t get the exercise she needs if she can’t run around.

There are fenced in places you can take your dog to get it used to being off lead. Dogs often react worse to other dogs if they feel trapped.

When you say walk somewhere different-where exactly do you mean? Reactive dogs need exercise too (and some reactive dogs are breeds that need to run around on a long line). It’s very hard to find places to walk a reactive dog where there are no other dogs so often reactive dogs are forced to share space with other dogs. Everyone needs to accept this and keep their dogs under control. Reactive dog owners need to accept that there will be dogs around and act accordingly, and owners of friendly dogs need to make sure their dog doesn’t approach dogs on leads.

YANBU This really winds me up. If you are walking your dog and see a dog on a lead, you should put yours on a lead.

There could be any number of reasons a dog is on a lead - illness, injury, nervousness, disability etc and to allow your dog to approach is completely selfish.

I've had a rescue dog that was terrified of other dogs and would show aggression through fear. Walking him was an absolute nightmare.

My current dog is now blind. He used to be really sociable and will still tolerate some interaction with other dogs, but not when they come bounding up from nowhere. He has a special lead and bandana stating he is blind, but some people just don't get it.

@Dobbyafreeelf Eh? On the whole thread you've picked my post to say my reactive JRT is the problem?! What?

All 3 of my dogs are incredibly well trained as they are working dogs. They come instantly to recall and we came change direction by saying "This way" and they follow without hesitation.

Dogs who are not on leads are not fair game and up for a play with other dogs. None of mine would ever run up to another dog, ESPECIALLY the JRT who will stand behind me, looking up at me waiting for the other dog to go.

I have 36 acres of my own land/garden to walk in including woods and riverbank. Sometimes I go out with a friend and their dogs though (dogs that know my dogs and are also gundogs or working dogs so they all basically ignore each other).

I'm not going to keep my well trained dogs in leads just because you've been shit at teaching yours recall.

Out of interest so you have a lead that signifies to keep dogs clear? Like the orange nervous one?

YABU to expect other owners to keep their dogs on leads. And you won't teach your nervous dog to be less reactive by picking him up every time another dog approaches.

I honest to God always though it was just common knowledge to put your dog on a lead if you see another dog on a lead in your vicinity for exactly the reason you're quite rightly, pissed off. One of our dogs is fear reactive and so wears a bright red "no dogs" harness and lead but idiots still ignore it. I now stand between her and any incoming dogs and block her, shouting a firm "no" at the other dog and shouting to the owner that my dog is not friendly.

@ImpatiensI have you actually read the thread? I don't pick him up every time. I did it once yesterday as I was scared he would get seriously hurt if the other dog wasn't under control. It was a split second decision made in the time that it took for this huge dog to bound over to us. I've acknowledged it was the wrong thing to do but rather that than risk my tiny dog being mauled by a massive thing like that.

I'm so shocked by some of the comments here that seem to blame me for having a reactive dog. My dog might be an arsehole who thinks he's bigger than he is, but he is kept on a lead. He is under control. Any dog that approaches us uninvited clearly isn't. Just have some consideration for other people who don't want your dog sniffing around them.

YANBU.

More scary is when they come running up to my toddlers who are enjoying a walk through the park.

Dogs should be on leads unless in dedicated dog parks. It's too dangerous and annoys me no end that it's seen as acceptable for them to come bounding over to people just because "they're fine". Well, they are until they aren't. I find it so entitled. My kids have to restrict their play so that dogs can run loose, in an area where there are ample empty fields and dog parks.

Have you had him from a puppy? If so why did you not socialise him, now everyone else who bothered to socialise their dog is the issue.

Most reactive dogs are reactive because they've had bad experiences, not because they've not had enough socialisation.

So, don't be all smug about how excellently you've socialised your dog - all it takes is one negative interaction with another dog, and you're the owner with a barking, lunging, terrified dog on the end of a lead.

I'm so shocked by some of the comments here that seem to blame me for having a reactive dog

I don't blame you for having a reactive dog, I've got one myself and know plenty of people with 'difficult' dogs - some handled them well others not so good. My ddog got a 'nervous' yellow collar to warn people he can be unpredictable but he's always off lead where it's allowed - he's much better off lead - and if they let their dogs go up to mine and he snaps at it, that's on the owner.

A big dog bounded over to your dog, you immediately assumed it was going to attack and picked up your dog - why did you assume that, just because it was 'big'? That isn't the right way to help a nervous dog and I suspect you're adding to the issue with your own behaviour.

@ImpatiensI the most damaging thing for reactive dogs is being approached by random dogs in the first place.

Why would you think a dog pushing itself into another dogs personal space when it’s frightened will stop the fear. It’s scary how many people have so little knowledge of dog behaviour yet own dogs
The technique of chucking dogs in and expecting them to deal with the situation is called flooding and is well known to make reactive behaviour worse.

Training relies on teaching the fearful dog that the dog or other thing it’s scared of is no threat and building confidence from a distance, gradually moving closer at the rreactive dogs pace as confidence builds.
I would use any technique to make the reactive dog feel safe, including walking away or even picking up if required so the interaction is as least damaging as possible. If leaving the dog on the floor was going to mean a fight breaking out then its worse behaviourally for the dog than being removed from the situation as every interaction it has during training must be positive.

Having a dog invade the scared dogs personal space is only likely to make it worse and add to the negative experiences it has. Dog on dog interaction when one dog is frightened or on lead and unable to distance itself if it needs too is not the right way to train.

Not blaming you for having a reactive dog, OP. Blaming you for not having a clue how to handle one and expecting everyone else to adapt accordingly. You can take the feed back onboard or not. Seems probably not from some of your replies...

@Cocothecat27

Took me a long time to work out my rescue terrier is anxious around dogs that act I that very bouncy teenage dog way. Very young puppies she is fine with. Dogs that ignore or calm are fine.

This is nothing to do with the other dogs age but their behaviour.

Fortunately my dog is food focused so the reward for staying calm and not barking means she gets some kibble. She also has some dog friends that although rather too playful they are not phased by her barking and telling them off.

We also observed her invitation to play is to bark & chase rather than play bow and 99% of the time the other dog understands and is fully on board.

It takes time but it improves.

Lead aggression, google it, he’s reacting to your nervousness.

It’s scary how many people have so little knowledge of dog behaviour yet own dogs

Certainly agree with that, including people who think they know all about dog training but clearly don't when they say -

Training relies on teaching the fearful dog that the dog or other thing it’s scared of is no threat

You can't 'teach' a reactive dog that if they've previously been attacked by dog (as mine was) it's not going to work because it's not true. You teach them that they don't have to react to every dog with the same fear - they can avoid them by giving wide berth (which mine will sometimes do) or allow the dog to come near to see if it's ok and move on if not happy. That works well for ddog.

You have to be aware of your own behaviour as well as the dog - if you shout at people to keep their dog away, pick up your dog or otherwise make a big deal about every dog around then you are actually teaching your dog to be more nervous.

Training relies on teaching the fearful dog that the dog or other thing it’s scared of is no threat

Huh? But most dogs are reactive because that statement is utterly untrue and the dog has experienced that on one or more occasion.

It was 2 massive lurchers that frightened my JRT out of her skin on about her 4th walk out as a puppy. We were in a local beauty spot and she was being trained (and was doing really well) when these 2 lurchers came from nowhere (round a blind bend) at top speed followed by a red faced woman shouting "Dobt Worry they just want to play", as she ran to try and grab them.

The noise my little Jess emitted was the most heartbreaking thing, I didn't even realise it was her at first, she was actually screaming. She sounded like a little girl screaming. And she didn't stop screaming and crying for ages whilst these lurchers leapt about all around us (I was holding her by the point, bear in mind she was the size of a grapefruit and they were massive hip high dogs). Her screaming made the lurchers react even more as they thought it was a wounded rabbit noise. I didn't stop crying all the way home whilst she shook and cried on my lap.

No amount of "socialisation" training has ever 'cured' her of that remembered fear. Poor little thing. But with brilliant training we can simply change direction or cross the road or whatever. It's the selfish arses who doing train properly who are at fault. Not me for not "socialising".

This also goes for incessant barking. Mine bark at the postman or whatever but stop the instant I tell them to.

Muzzle your dog

I went for a walk yesterday, with my friend who has a dog who has regressed in lockdown so was on lead and she was going to show me how to practice recall. The amount of off lead dogs who bounded over to us and ended up in a rolling, snapping frenzy not only scared my friends dog, my friend, and me. I was bitten by a rottweiler as a 9 year old and the bounding straight towards us reminded me of it. I was thinking of getting a dog but yesterdays experience put me off. The dogs on lead were not a problem at all. The off lead dogs approaching other dogs and humans were the problem. It is selfish to expect others to deal with your dogs approaching in a public space.

@Lolwhat

Muzzle your dog

That won’t really solve the problem. True it will stop the reactive dog injuring another but the poor reactive dog will probably be even more scared to have its space invaded. Why should owners with no control over their dogs be allowed to let their dogs scare reactive on lead dogs? Reactive dogs have just as much of a right to be walked and enjoy green spaces as social dogs do. They have a right to be able to walk without being pestered by other dogs, so other owners should keep their dogs away from on lead dogs. It’s selfish and cruel to let your dog pester a dog that doesn’t like dogs.

@ImpatiensI I think we will have to agree to disagree on that one. In order for behavioural adjustment therapy to work the dog cannot be exposed to any triggers during that time. By allowing interactions that could be potentially negative then it could mean that you end up with a bigger issue than you started with.
Yes, eventually down the line some dogs will progress to face to face interactions but some will never be comfortable with that and that relies on being able to judge when each dog is ready, not when someone else on a field decides not to recall their dog away.
I do not scream and shout and pull my dogs away either so not sure where you got that but I will calmly move myself from the situation or body block an oncoming dog if necessary.

@midnightstar66 clearly I cannot tell any dog that nothing can hurt them, I thought that would have been obvious but I can teach them to trust that I would not put them in a situation where they would be hurt with confidence building and positive reinforcement. This is where being approached by other dogs can become an issue if these dogs are in a BAT style training programme.
Not all dogs are reactive due to a negative experience. A huge proportion of the ones I have worked with have been genetically unsound, undersocialised or just nervous personalities and just needed confidence building around others and to learn that seeing another dog does not require an epic meltdown as nothing bad actually happens.

Obviously some dogs are different, one of my own personal dogs was attacked and now will sometimes mildly react and it’s best to keep her at a distance or she does become stressed although she’s at the point now she trusts me enough to walk on past. Why would I force her to interact with a dog when she does not want too just because someone somewhere said all dogs must love meeting others and now it’s become a fact. It seems a pointless activity to me.

I feel your pain OP.

My dog while friendly, is a total pest and has zero recall so he is not allowed off the lead where there are other people or dogs.

I have tried EVERYTHING as has our dog walker who is a professional police dog trainer 🤦🏽‍♀️

When other off lead dogs come bounding over to us and I tell the owner to keep their dog away, they assume it's because he is a bull breed and therefore must be viscous. It's not, it's because I'm trying to teach him to be calm and unreactive but your precious little fur all running circles around us is not helping my training and it fecking hurts like hell trying to restrain all bloody 30kg of him!

I've also noticed that while other dogs will happily approach him, as soon as he tries to pounce on them (in play) they snarl and react aggressively to him, my fear is that if a fight ensued he would be blamed being a bull breed, even though it was the off lead dog who approached us.

He is so chilled and relaxed walking along beside me with other dogs at a distance, I just want them to stay at a distance so that I can enjoy my walk in peace

@Lolwhat

Muzzle your dog

Any dog behaviourist would tell you this is counter productive when the snapping and snarling is a fear response.

The muzzle takes away the dogs only defence mechanism so all you do is increase his fear factor.