Another dog moan - aibu

[Cocothecat27]

I have a small terrier who is quite reactive to other dogs. He's mostly just very barky but he has been known to have a little snap at other dogs if they come up to him, not that he'd do any damage as he's tiny. He seems particularly reactive when he's on lead and other dogs approach him who aren't.

We are working on this, he's still very young. But for this reason he is always on a lead.

Three times this week we have been approached in public places by dogs off lead. The owners always say the same thing - it's ok he/she is fine. But my dog isn't always fine and if he snaps at yours and a fight happens it'll most likely be my very small, on the lead dog that comes off worse.

We had an incident yesterday where a huge dog came bounding over to us which is pretty scary as it is. My idiot dog started going crazy and I had to pick him up.

I tell people sorry he can be a bit snappy at times, as though it's my fault! but if their dog was on a lead too it wouldn't be a problem would it? I'm working on my dog being less reactive but it doesn't help when these things keeps happening. Aibu to find it really annoying?

you never let your dog off lead, how do you train it to come back in those situations? Being on a long lead is of course one thing, but at some point you have to let them run free

You hire a secure private field for training or take them to a dog training centre?

Man and dog both stared at us in a bit of an odd way and I don’t know if that triggered him, but GS leapt forward barking and my cup flew over the hedge! ... At least 6 other dogs had walked past prior to this and he hadn’t reacted to any of them! Any theories?

The staring is confrontational and so likely to push a nervous dog to react.

A bit like if you were sat on a seat and someone was stood nearby just staring intently at you. It would make you nervous/uncomfortable and eventually that discomfort would erupt into something like "what the bloody hell are you looking at?" Your exact react would vary, depending on your specific personality (you might even just get away). Compare that wih anoer person who stood neary clearly lookingfor someone, occasionally gloancing at you but hthe looking round ec. You might feel less worried by that kind of behaviour because you are clearly not the target, so you are less likely to react and more likely to just ignore them.

Your dog is just more of a shouter than a runner-away

@Aprilx

So you want all dog owners to keep their dogs on a lead because you have badly trained / socialised your own and keep bringing it to places where dogs are allowed off lead. YABVVU and you are the irresponsible dog owner here

Dogs need a bit of off lead time to run around.

I agree with this. My dogs love running around playing with their friends. It's really good for their health, both physical and mental. We only have a couple of places where they can do that where we live and nobody would bring a reactive or nervous dog to these fields.

In a random park I wouldn't let my dogs off lead as it's too close to the roads and there is more of a mixture of people with and not with dogs. My dogs have good recall, but not perfect. There are times when they get carried away when they are having fun with other dogs that they ignore me. Like humans, they are not perfect in every situation, but they are never aggressive.

@Aprilx

So you want all dog owners to keep their dogs on a lead because you have badly trained / socialised your own and keep bringing it to places where dogs are allowed off lead. YABVVU and you are the irresponsible dog owner here

Dogs need a bit of off lead time to run around.

If your dog approaches other dogs it's you that is being unreasonable

YANBU - our lockdown pup is extremely well socialised as we sent him to doggy daycare as soon as we could even though we were working from home however I still always make sure he’s put back on lead if any other dogs approach as I don’t know how they will react to him or potentially attack him. I’m always aware of that possibility. Those dog owners will learn the hard way when their dog gets bitten.

@HikeForward

you never let your dog off lead, how do you train it to come back in those situations? Being on a long lead is of course one thing, but at some point you have to let them run free

You hire a secure private field for training or take them to a dog training centre?

Yes, that trains them to come back to you when there are no other distractions. It's not the same if you are on a field playing with other dogs. You need to train them in real life situations too.

Oh, a people bandy around the term 'socialisation' as if it's a silver bullet. As if every reactive dog has just not been properly socialised (and as if there is one perfect prescription for socialisation).

That's wrong.

Reactivity is multifactorial and there is not a 'perfect'model of socialisation that guarantees a happy, confident, relaxed dog. Exposure and experiences to the world during the age of (approx) 6-16 weeks is just one element of that.

This is REALLY important to stress because it is not true that anyone who has a reactive dog that they had as a puppy that they 'failed' them in some way.

Has anyone had any success with the yellow leads/collars/coats marked 'Nervous'? I've seen a few around but wondered if they may help in your situation @Cocothecat27

This is REALLY important to stress because it is not true that anyone who has a reactive dog that they had as a puppy that they 'failed' them in some way.

That was some dodgy grammer. Try...

This is REALLY important to stress because it is not true to say that anyone who has a reactive dog (that they had as a puppy) 'failed' them in some way.

The thing that drives me mad is that owners have dogs off lead and they aren’t even looking at them!

People take their dogs to the local small park and then just let them run about the park while they stand and chat with friends. You should have eyes on your dog at all times and should be, you know, walking them. They think the small park is good as the dog can’t go far but it’s a nightmare and makes the park almost unusable for others.

My dogs love running around playing with their friends. It's really good for their health, both physical and mental. We only have a couple of places where they can do that where we live and nobody would bring a reactive or nervous dog to these fields

How can you be sure if the fields are public land? Tourists, visitors, new people who don’t know the area? Suppose I was to walk through those fields with reactive GS on a short lead, would you leash yours immediately or risk them running up to him and jumping in his space? Because if they do that he will panic and defend himself. even if yours only wanted to play with him. He can’t always tell if they’re playful or aggressive when they get in his face so he goes into attack mode.

He was attacked by a pitbull/staffie cross recently, it went for him unprovoked and bit him. Being big and quick he nearly finished it off but it’s owner arrived just as he pinned it by the throat! She was livid but her dog was off lead and GS was on lead.

Mine don’t approach others, I’m bloody sick of others approaching mine! Drives me nuts! And yes, the whole ‘Mine is fine’ but mine isn’t, you idiot! Mine is very reactive, spent thousands on training and he just won’t have other dogs near him, but apparently it’s my dog’s fault that their dogs aren’t trained.

SirSniffsAlot
Oh, a people bandy around the term 'socialisation' as if it's a silver bullet. As if every reactive dog has just not been properly socialised (and as if there is one perfect prescription for socialisation)

@SirSniffsAlot talks a lot of sense here. A lot of the “socialisation” that people do is based purely on luck. We worked really hard on socialisation with my reactive dog but sadly, he had a couple of negative experiences with aggressive off lead dogs that have resulted in him becoming dog selective - he is a lot better than he was (we participate in big canicross running events and he is able to run alongside other dogs when he has a job to do) but we still have the occasional reaction when walking.

SirSniffsAlot I agree with you, but I also think it's important for owners to think about their actions and behaviours as that is another factor. It's easy for some to take the 'oh my dog is reactive and that's just how it is' view, which might lead them to ignore practical things they can do.

[quote Cocothecat27]@Aprilx I take it you are one of the idiotic and selfish dog owners the majority of people are complaining about here then.

Even if I wasn't walking my dog, even if I didn't have a dog, I still wouldn't appreciate a large, badly trained dog with no recall bounding over to me. People shouldn't have to have their walk spoiled or inconvenienced because people believe that their dogs right to roam trumps everything else.

If the dog is genuinely well trained and won't approach me or my dog that's fine but that is rarely the case. [/quote]
What a pathetic retort. Can you please explain how I am an idiotic dog owner because I think you are irresponsible for not properly socialising your aggressive dog and taking it to places you know dogs are allowed to be off lead? I hadn’t even mentioned that I own a dog and I certainly haven’t said how I control it!

But I do have two dogs, and I made efforts to socialise them from puppies. The result is they are both mild mannered and get on well with people, other dogs of all sizes and they are even cats. I live in the countryside and we rarely see people on walks, they are off lead in empty fields. When we go to more public areas I have made the choice to keep them on the lead. Unlike you, I have the capacity to think that just because I choose to keep my dogs on lead in off-lead dog walking areas, it doesn’t mean that everyone else should have to as well.

You are the problem here, you are the one with a snappy aggressive dog, you have a cheek to blame it on other people. Train your dog, there are methods you can use to teach it to behave around other dogs. My dogs have never snapped at another living thing and have only ever had friendly happy encounters, you can’t say the same, do don’t you dare throw your idiotic dog owner insults at me.

YANBU but try not to pick him up, it’ll make it worse. I used to do this with my Jack Russell and in the end he was always picked up as he would growl etc and so he never mixed with other dogs. We had a cat and that was his only friend.

@LolaSmiles

SirSniffsAlot I agree with you, but I also think it's important for owners to think about their actions and behaviours as that is another factor. It's easy for some to take the 'oh my dog is reactive and that's just how it is' view, which might lead them to ignore practical things they can do.

This is a fair point - and I see this too.

Reactivity can be helped, to varying degrees of success. There is hope and still a great deal of joy to be had with a reactive dog providing owners are clear on what helps/hurts and are prepared to take action.

(Which is not the same as saying all reactive dogs can be "cured").

The staring is confrontational and so likely to push a nervous dog to react

Interesting, thanks. Lots of people look at GS due to his size, but I guess other dog was eyeballing him or sending a signal and he saw it as a threat. The man was looking at me not GS, not in a bad way just catching my eye a bit too long so I wasn’t sure if it was the dog who set GS off or the man. He’s protective of me when I walk him alone, if I didn’t have him with me I wouldn’t walk alone in the countryside for fear of loose dogs.

It’s amazing how fast people put their dogs on leads when you’re standing beside a growling GS and ask them, compared to when you’re alone (alone you get told he’s a big softie, will lick you to death etc or told not to be silly!)

My dog was attacked by a small dog as a puppy, she's a big mastiff cross (a big softie). Since then she has reacted to small dogs, no amount of training has helped her get over her fear. We have a yellow lead with nervous on it, she wears a halti so we have more control if she panics and also has a bright harness which is meant to deter owners thinking it's okay for their dogs to approach her. We walk her away from parks or areas that are populated with dogs but that hasn't made any difference. The amount of dogs that approach her off lead is ridiculous and I have to shout for the owners to recall their dogs. All I get is my dog is friendly, yes but mine isn't. We have done everything possible to make it clear that she cannot be approached by other dogs, we cross over if one is coming, turn around and walk away if that's not possible and still owners think that it's okay for their off lead dog to approach. If anyone has tips or ideas on how we can walk her without getting stressed then they would be welcome.

@EmmaGrundyForPM

I always try to put my dog on a lead if I see someone coming with a dog on a lead. But occasionally mine doesn't come back when called (we're working on it!) and will run up to a dog on a lead. I only have him off lead in places that are quiet.

Our local parks all say that dogs need to be kept on a lead so I'm sure you can find somewhere where dogs are all on leads.

I did see a dog with a harness the other day which said "please don't approach" which I thought was a good idea.

It sounds like your dog’s recall isn’t good enough for it to be safe/under control off lead. Please consider using a long line until it’s more reliable. Every time your dog approaches an on lead dog, not only does it risk getting bitten, but it will cause a huge amount of stress to the reactive dog and owner. The owners day may be ruined and the reactive dog will be more stressed for the next few days, and months of training progress could be lost. It may not seem like a big deal to you but it is a huge deal to owners of reactive dogs. Also it’s almost impossible to “work on” a dog’s recall if it is allowed to approach other dogs/people as it will quickly learn that approaching dogs and ignoring its owner is more fun/rewarding than returning to the owner. So please please consider using a long line

@Aprilx Oh dear, I think you need to unclench a little.

Congratulations on having two such wonderfully behaved dogs, you must be very proud. Unfortunately as other people have mentioned, socialisation and training isn't always that easy. My dog is only two but is a rescue and despite our best efforts now, we missed out on that crucial training stage when he was young.

I walk him in my local, rural area. The only place I know of that has a strict on lead policy is about 40 minutes drive away. Are you seriously suggesting that I drive that far everyday to walk my dog when there are perfectly good walks on my doorstep? Just because some people are irresponsible and selfish with how they walk their dogs.

I fail to see how you can think it's acceptable in any way for a dog to approach anyone uninvited regardless of whether they have a dog with them or not. It's rude, alarming and incredibly entitled of the owner. If you want your dog to run freely with other dogs do it on private land or rent a field. why should other people suffer because of your selfishness?

My dog is like this too, she is a rescuedog and was 10 when we got her, 11 now, and although we have tried training her I think she is too old an set in her ways to have a character change. She never actually bites another dog, just makes blood curdling noises and faux snaps.
I just keep my eyes out for off lead dogs a long way away and adjust my route, cros the road if we see another dog on a lead coming along and walk her very early in the morning or at lunch times at weekends.

I'll also add - because I feel it's right to - that people who have not had reactive dogs often have very little idea of how fucking hard and miserable and lonely it can be.

Every single person with a reactive dog has my empathy. Not least because the judgement from other people (who often don't know how much they don't know), makes it ten times worse.

I see people struggle with this often. The perserverence, bravery and downright compassion I see from owners facing this, is amazing to me.

@Skyla2005

He would probably be much better off his lead. He can't get away if he needs to so he is being defensive. Maybe practise his recall off lead and see how he goes. You could use a soft muzzle at first if your unsure how he will be

In case you are considering this-NEVER use a soft muzzle on a dog unless for a very short period such as at the vet or groomer. Especially not if you let a scared dog off a lead. They stop the dog opening their mouth so they can’t pant. If your dog bolted it would be running around the countryside unable to pant or drink and could die of heat exhaustion. Use a basket muzzle and make sure the dog is slowly and positively muzzle trained. I don’t think letting a fear aggressive dog off a lead is a good idea though.

My dogs have never snapped at another living thing and have only ever had friendly happy encounters, you can’t say the same

Your dogs sound lovely, but nobody else knows their temperament. It’s quite scary (even to many dog owners) to have unknown dogs run at you in a field.

Not all dogs have had only friendly, happy encounters with other dogs. Some are traumatised by being attacked, some are rescues, some are wary of other dogs through no fault of the owner. This is why GS is always on a lead unless we’ve hired a private field or we’re on a friend’s private land. He’s not ‘aggressive’ he’s defensive when dogs get in his face. He lost half an ear in a staffie/pitbull attack. If your dog playfully snatches his ball he may lunge aggressively, thinking yours is trying to steal not play. Years of training courses have helped but he’s always on a lead and I expect other owners to have theirs on leads unless theirs are trained not to approach.

For example, my brother has 2 ex-foxhounds. They are so well trained I can walk them off lead, trust them to never approach another dog or person and they recall instantly to my side.