Another dog moan - aibu

[Cocothecat27]

I have a small terrier who is quite reactive to other dogs. He's mostly just very barky but he has been known to have a little snap at other dogs if they come up to him, not that he'd do any damage as he's tiny. He seems particularly reactive when he's on lead and other dogs approach him who aren't.

We are working on this, he's still very young. But for this reason he is always on a lead.

Three times this week we have been approached in public places by dogs off lead. The owners always say the same thing - it's ok he/she is fine. But my dog isn't always fine and if he snaps at yours and a fight happens it'll most likely be my very small, on the lead dog that comes off worse.

We had an incident yesterday where a huge dog came bounding over to us which is pretty scary as it is. My idiot dog started going crazy and I had to pick him up.

I tell people sorry he can be a bit snappy at times, as though it's my fault! but if their dog was on a lead too it wouldn't be a problem would it? I'm working on my dog being less reactive but it doesn't help when these things keeps happening. Aibu to find it really annoying?

@HikeForward

My dogs love running around playing with their friends. It's really good for their health, both physical and mental. We only have a couple of places where they can do that where we live and nobody would bring a reactive or nervous dog to these fields

How can you be sure if the fields are public land? Tourists, visitors, new people who don’t know the area? Suppose I was to walk through those fields with reactive GS on a short lead, would you leash yours immediately or risk them running up to him and jumping in his space? Because if they do that he will panic and defend himself. even if yours only wanted to play with him. He can’t always tell if they’re playful or aggressive when they get in his face so he goes into attack mode.

He was attacked by a pitbull/staffie cross recently, it went for him unprovoked and bit him. Being big and quick he nearly finished it off but it’s owner arrived just as he pinned it by the throat! She was livid but her dog was off lead and GS was on lead.

I don't live in a touristy place but I guess someone could be visiting the area but the fields are tucked away and unless you know they are there you wouldn't just stumble across them. However, let's say you do, and you have a reactive dog. I would say you would be very irresponsible if you came up to the gate, saw 20-30 dogs running around lose playing with each other, to think we should all put our dogs on a lead so that you can walk your dog there too. I get that you are allowed to walk your dog wherever you want to, but I would find that a bit unreasonable and unfair for the dogs who are happily playing together.

No. I hate this. My dog is scared of and barks at others , worse after a dog off lead ran up and but his face. He has a red collar to show he doesn’t get on with other dogs but it makes no difference. Dog owners can be right arseholes I find.

@JustSleepAlready

No. I hate this. My dog is scared of and barks at others , worse after a dog off lead ran up and but his face. He has a red collar to show he doesn’t get on with other dogs but it makes no difference. Dog owners can be right arseholes I find.

I would honestly have no clue that a red collar means they don't get on with other dogs. Lots of dogs have red collars who are super friendly with other dogs. I don't think you can expect all dog owners to know that. Also, I just read that a yellow collar means don't approach.

I would say you would be very irresponsible if you came up to the gate, saw 20-30 dogs running around lose playing with each other, to think we should all put our dogs on a lead so that you can walk your dog there too

I would never interrupt a field of off lead dogs playing, unless we absolutely had to take that route. In that case I’d call from the fence to warn you I need to bring a reactive GS through and ask you to hold them long enough for us to pass. But ideally I’d find another way round as I don’t want to spoil your fun any more than I want to risk being pulled over by him! 20-30 dogs would just be too exciting for him and if one got loose and ran to him I’m not sure if he’d play or attack it.

My issue is with public fields where you can’t see round the corner/over the hill or in woods even off lead dogs come charging out of the trees right into snapping distance!

@HikeForward

I would say you would be very irresponsible if you came up to the gate, saw 20-30 dogs running around lose playing with each other, to think we should all put our dogs on a lead so that you can walk your dog there too

I would never interrupt a field of off lead dogs playing, unless we absolutely had to take that route. In that case I’d call from the fence to warn you I need to bring a reactive GS through and ask you to hold them long enough for us to pass. But ideally I’d find another way round as I don’t want to spoil your fun any more than I want to risk being pulled over by him! 20-30 dogs would just be too exciting for him and if one got loose and ran to him I’m not sure if he’d play or attack it.

My issue is with public fields where you can’t see round the corner/over the hill or in woods even off lead dogs come charging out of the trees right into snapping distance!

I can see that those situations would be a lot trickier to manage. Usually dogs sense when it's not a good idea to approach but not always.

Hadn’t heard of the red collar thing but come to think of it his harness and lead are red.

It’s like if you’re riding a horse with a red ribbon on its tail (to warn others she kicks so give her space) then someone barges into her from behind, gets kicked and complains she’s dangerous!

It is 100% not your fault. You can walk your dog wherever you like on a lead and when he’s the one minding his own business. The onus is entirely on the people letting their off-lead dogs be out of control and running up to dogs on leads without first checking the owner is okay with this.

You can’t escape idiots with poorly trained dogs so you may want to consider a little dog coat that says ‘do not approach’ or ‘nervous’ on it.

I’m irritated by the people suggesting that you walk your dog at times when there are no other dogs! How about the people with dogs that run up to other dogs on leads only get taken out when there are no dogs about?! They are the ones that cause the issue!

@Aprilx

So you want all dog owners to keep their dogs on a lead because you have badly trained / socialised your own and keep bringing it to places where dogs are allowed off lead. YABVVU and you are the irresponsible dog owner here

Dogs need a bit of off lead time to run around.

Yep! And so do I!

Mine is trained. He is not particularly reactive either BUT off lead dogs not being kept under proper control can cause issues with any dog.

We have an off lead space here and many kids, on lead dogs and other people use it too. Off lead dogs don't get priority! You rent a space or use your own garden for that!

Anyone who thinks that just because dogs CAN be off lead they SHOULD be and that nobody has any cause for complaont is totally deluded.

What is your ddog actually doing? Because snapping/growling at another dog that's too close and they've taken a dislike to... that's pretty normal dog behaviour. Just laying out the boundaries - 'back off, mate'. Especially when on lead, as dogs feel more in control of themselves off lead with another off lead dog.

I agree, my little terrier can be a bit lead reactive. She's no danger to anyone but she can sound utterly terrifying which is usually enough to send the dogs packing or the owner intervening. It's fair enough tbh she's tiny and huge dogs frequently invade her space. When you say he nipped a dogs nose was there a wound or did you just see it happen? As it was likely just a warning shot. I also don't think occasionally picking up is an issue. There's one particular dog who's owner tinkly laughs how he just loves terrorising dogs on leads, I imagine it's this dogs fault she's like she is but as she's not the only irresponsible dog owner around it might have happened anyway (my dog now hates all dogs of this colour and breed as a result even off lead and she normally play's beautifully with other dogs when off lead) unfortunately there are situations where it's impossible to avoid them so I tend to just pick her up and wait stony faced for the owner to remove. My normal tactic is to just keep walking though. I've trained a 'let's go' where when I change direction my dog instantly follows me so I say let's go and walk off. Often the dog follows us and the owner sometimes has a long walk to get them back and dares to actually be annoyed 😆but the movement and my dogs focus on where I'm going usually distracts her from the other dog.

@Aprilx

So you want all dog owners to keep their dogs on a lead because you have badly trained / socialised your own and keep bringing it to places where dogs are allowed off lead. YABVVU and you are the irresponsible dog owner here

Dogs need a bit of off lead time to run around.

There’s a difference between wanting all dogs to be on lead and wanting all dogs to be under control (not necessarily on lead) so they don’t approach on lead dogs or people.
Even if a dog “needs to run around” it is up to the owner to make sure that their dog can be called away from other dogs and people before they let it off lead in a public place. Otherwise the dog should be on lead in parks and only let off in empty fields away from people (and they should still be controlled around livestock and wildlife). It’s just not fair to let a dog run around out of control in parks, it makes many people and reactive dogs really quite scared and public spaces are for everyone. If you choose a breed of dog that needs to run around lots, it’s up to the owner to either train it and control it around other dogs and people, or find a suitably quiet place for it to run around.

Usually dogs sense when it's not a good idea to approach but not always

Yes, unfortunately those who don’t sense it are the ones who get injured or worse.

Some owners seem to think a big dog can’t be scared of a tiny cute one but it’s a massive risk to take. Some reactive dogs panic when a little dog goes under their feet and move so quickly the owner may not be able to save your dog in time even if their reactive dog is on a short leash. And few owners muzzle for walks in case their on lead dog is attacked by an off lead dog and needs to defend itself.

And before anyone asks about what if a toddler runs into a dog-reactive on lead dog, I can confirm this has happened twice and both times GS didn’t react at all other than to sniff toddler before I pulled him aside and helped toddler up. He’s very gentle with children. My youngest child was afraid of dogs and GS seemed to sense this, giving her space and not trying to sniff when eventually she felt able to stroke him.

@notanothersaveusername

My dog is off the lead in parks etc and may occasionally approach other dogs on leads, but it's very rare and just a glancing sniff, if anything. She's not interested in other dogs at all, so I know she is safe around other dogs.

It may be “just” a glancing sniff to you, but when off lead dogs come up and start sniffing around my reactive dog it is a really stressful experience for me and my dog. My dog is terrified and just hates other dogs being in his space (and he signals this very clearly). It’s really not fair to let your dog scare reactive dogs like this-if your dog isn’t that interested in dogs anyway would it really be that difficult to call your dog back to you when you see a dog on a lead just in case it is a fearful dog?

Hi op,can you buy one of those bright collar and leads that has nervous danger organic on so other people will hopefully see this from a distance and keep their dogs away?
Your dog will be more reactive on a lead as he will feel he cannot run away as his instinct tells him too so he is trying to warn them off.
He could be picking up your concerns too,a dog needs to know you are pack leader,if he doesn't know this then he feels he has to be and can cause him to feet and sorry and maybe be defensive of you,his pack.
It may be something else entirely,hard to say not knowing either of you.
Your can try clicked training to distract him?
Try to keep calm around other dogs or he will pick up your worries.
Good luck.

Not organic!should say or shy!

Ffs! To fret and worry! Not feet and sorry.

clicker!

All very well having yellow leads/coats etc, but most dog walkers I’ve seen, walking their off lead dogs whilst paying absolutely no attention to what their dog is doing, won’t even notice it as they just aren’t paying attention.

Plus have you ever tried to read a moving lead from a distance? By the time the other owner is close enough to be able to read the word ‘anxious’ they (and their dog) are already too close.

@SwedishK I agree that reactive dogs shouldn’t be walked in designated off lead dog areas or even unofficial off lead areas known for off lead dogs. I think most reactive dog owners avoid these areas like the plague anyway. However if a reactive on lead dog does walk through a public area where there are off lead dogs playing and bites an off lead dog which approaches it the owner of the off lead dog is entirely to blame so it’s worth being able to call your dog away from on lead dogs for its own safety.
If your dogs recall is good enough that it comes back 49/50 times, then by all means assess the risks for yourself just know that if that 1/50 time your dog doesn’t come back is the time it approaches a large aggressive dog on a lead your dog could be in real danger of death and you would be responsible.

Pretty much all of these threads go the same way.
Sensible people: Put your dog on a lead around children, dogs, strangers, roads and livestock.
There are any number of reasons. Maybe people are scared, other dogs are scared, injured, old or aggressive. Maybe people just don’t want to be bothered or god forbid just don’t find your little (most of the time can’t breathe) dog cute. Maybe they are training and don’t want to be disturbed or just want to walk in peace without someone else’s badly trained dog ‘saying hello’.

Then the selfish dog owners come on and say but my dog wants to run. My dog wouldn’t ever misbehave. My dog is friendly. My dog isn’t scary. Dogs need to play with others to be ‘socialised’ -which btw is absolute rubbish and is something trainers everywhere are trying to debunk!

And so these out of control and rude dog incidents go on and on until eventually all dogs will probably end up on leads almost everywhere because of a selfish minority who ruin it for everyone else.

And for what it’s worth. I own dogs, I train dogs for a living. My dogs don’t want to socialise with yours, they are trained to ignore other dogs and people for a reason.
Just because I don’t let my dogs run riot with badly trained pushy and rude animals learning bad habits does not mean I am a bad owner.

@3ormoredogs

Pretty much all of these threads go the same way. Sensible people: Put your dog on a lead around children, dogs, strangers, roads and livestock. There are any number of reasons. Maybe people are scared, other dogs are scared, injured, old or aggressive. Maybe people just don’t want to be bothered or god forbid just don’t find your little (most of the time can’t breathe) dog cute. Maybe they are training and don’t want to be disturbed or just want to walk in peace without someone else’s badly trained dog ‘saying hello’.

Then the selfish dog owners come on and say but my dog wants to run. My dog wouldn’t ever misbehave. My dog is friendly. My dog isn’t scary. Dogs need to play with others to be ‘socialised’ -which btw is absolute rubbish and is something trainers everywhere are trying to debunk!

And so these out of control and rude dog incidents go on and on until eventually all dogs will probably end up on leads almost everywhere because of a selfish minority who ruin it for everyone else.

And for what it’s worth. I own dogs, I train dogs for a living. My dogs don’t want to socialise with yours, they are trained to ignore other dogs and people for a reason.
Just because I don’t let my dogs run riot with badly trained pushy and rude animals learning bad habits does not mean I am a bad owner.

Exactly! I don’t even know why I bother contributing to these threads (I’m new here and seen a couple in the last few days). I’m sure none of these selfish dog owners will change their minds even when many people explain their perspective on not liking out of control dogs in a bid to try and get them to empathise. There was a poster the other day who had the arrogance to assume that when she walked her dog off lead through a busy city park full of picnic goers that “most students would welcome a dog cuddle”. How could she possibly know that? Many, many people (even those who like dogs) wouldn’t welcome a cuddle off a random probably muddy dog while they are eating. Apparently it was ok because she goes to the park every day and many other people were there only because it was sunny.

'Dog protocol is that you don't let your off lead dog approach on lead ones but unfortunately not all dogs and owners see, to do this. So all you can do is try and reduce the potential for it happening.'

It's not practical though, is it? To try to grab your own dog every time another dog appears in the vicinity on a lead. You'd need the eyes of a hawk in some parks to keep on a dog like that. Not to mention, many dogs on leads are fine with other dogs, and there on a lead for other reasons, like just arriving, a puppy just out, a puppy in training, dogs just leaving, or the owner wanting a walk without the dog playing with other dogs because they're exercising or trying to get from A to B quickly.

Much as you would like the world to revolve around your dogs needs ( and I mine) it won't so you'll need to work on behaviour and training, and find a time or a place to walk your dog when there are less other dogs around. Or accept that perhaps your dog would be better off with a family in the country or with more space to ensure the dog gets more time away from other dogs.

Dogs need to play with others to be ‘socialised’ -which btw is absolute rubbish and is something trainers everywhere are trying to debunk! Yep! If they were raised properly then they will already be socialised, as that happens mostly before they are 12 ish weeks old.

What we do with dogs when we get them is familiarise them with a range of situations. Mine is a pushy, rude toad, lacking in the usual dog etiquette. He has never been able to maintain his calm when on lead around other dogs, and I have tried (he's a bull terrier so isn't the most biddable of dogs). I know he is just easily over excited on lead. But he must look bloody terrifying to most other dogs and people. So he is kept on a short lead, double fix point harness and I familiarise him with as many different settings as I can. His 'safe' distance is probably down to about 4 or 5 feet now - it started at "as long as I can see them".

Off lead he is just a bounce and ignore. He just rushes round waiting for a ball. I know this and STILL keep him under my control in off lead spaces until I am sure everyone around me knows he is there and are accepting of his mad dashing around. Fortunately most of the locals like him. I wouldn't dream of doing that elsewhere

@3ormoredogs

Pretty much all of these threads go the same way. Sensible people: Put your dog on a lead around children, dogs, strangers, roads and livestock. There are any number of reasons. Maybe people are scared, other dogs are scared, injured, old or aggressive. Maybe people just don’t want to be bothered or god forbid just don’t find your little (most of the time can’t breathe) dog cute. Maybe they are training and don’t want to be disturbed or just want to walk in peace without someone else’s badly trained dog ‘saying hello’.

Then the selfish dog owners come on and say but my dog wants to run. My dog wouldn’t ever misbehave. My dog is friendly. My dog isn’t scary. Dogs need to play with others to be ‘socialised’ -which btw is absolute rubbish and is something trainers everywhere are trying to debunk!

And so these out of control and rude dog incidents go on and on until eventually all dogs will probably end up on leads almost everywhere because of a selfish minority who ruin it for everyone else.

And for what it’s worth. I own dogs, I train dogs for a living. My dogs don’t want to socialise with yours, they are trained to ignore other dogs and people for a reason.
Just because I don’t let my dogs run riot with badly trained pushy and rude animals learning bad habits does not mean I am a bad owner.

It also doesn't mean that I am bad owner because I do let my dogs socialise with other dogs. My dogs do get something out of playing with other dogs, other dogs might not. It's the same with people. Some likes solitude, others are more social.

I can see value in dogs being trained to interact with other dogs too, as it helps them understand the signals from other dogs.

I don't see how I am a selfish dog owner because I state that my dogs likes to run, they do like to run. Especially with other dogs.

It's not practical though, is it? To try to grab your own dog every time another dog appears in the vicinity on a lead. You'd need the eyes of a hawk in some parks to keep on a dog like that. Then train your dog better. If I can keep mine close by so I can grab or recall him when I spot an on lead dog anyone can! And we walk through the forest of dean on and off lead as required by others using the same space!

If you don't have eyes like a hawk don't let your dog off lead!

@Teesel

If you own a dog and it's off lead and you see ANY other dog coming your way, it should be recalled and put in a lead until you're safely past the other dog. I don't get why that is so hard to follow. (Talking about other people where OP not you)

I have 3 dogs all with excellent recall one is a JRT and has fear aggression. If we see another dog I can call her and put her on the lead.
And luckily she is small so I can pick her up easily but the amount of people who just let an uncontrolled dog bound up is amazing! Horrifies me. My JRT WILL snap and show her teeth. When someone shouts 'it's ok he's very friendly' I shout back 'yes but mines not, can you grab your dog please?'

Does my head in.

@Teesel then YOUR dog is the problem and shouldn't be walked around other dogs. If dogs are off lead then it's generally considered ok for them to meet other dogs who are also off lead. What it's not ok is to let them race up to on lead dogs.