Another dog moan - aibu

[Cocothecat27]

I have a small terrier who is quite reactive to other dogs. He's mostly just very barky but he has been known to have a little snap at other dogs if they come up to him, not that he'd do any damage as he's tiny. He seems particularly reactive when he's on lead and other dogs approach him who aren't.

We are working on this, he's still very young. But for this reason he is always on a lead.

Three times this week we have been approached in public places by dogs off lead. The owners always say the same thing - it's ok he/she is fine. But my dog isn't always fine and if he snaps at yours and a fight happens it'll most likely be my very small, on the lead dog that comes off worse.

We had an incident yesterday where a huge dog came bounding over to us which is pretty scary as it is. My idiot dog started going crazy and I had to pick him up.

I tell people sorry he can be a bit snappy at times, as though it's my fault! but if their dog was on a lead too it wouldn't be a problem would it? I'm working on my dog being less reactive but it doesn't help when these things keeps happening. Aibu to find it really annoying?

Omg this is so stressful just reading this ofcourse you don't let him off and hope for the best you fool but please chill out your dog is picking up on your emotions. Rescue dogs can be socialised and allowed to mix.
So many new owners are going to freak out with out complicated you are making taking care of a dog..no wonder so many are ending up in shelters

@aquashiv

I have never seen so many anxious owners that say its their dogs being reactive. My neighbour rescues and I often volunteer to go out with her and let my two lumps socialise them. There's nothing nicer than seeing happy dogs playing. Try not to worry Op dogs are very smart and they feed off your emotions.

It is good advice to stay calm when you’re walking a reactive dog. I had to work on this when I got my first reactive dog nearly 10 years ago and now with 10 years practice and in my second reactive dog I’ve gotten fairly good at handling the situation calmly. Calling to other owners isn’t ideal I agree, but is often the best option when the alternative is them unwittingly letting their dog hassle mine (not all owners know yellow lead=nervous). I think it’s important to call as calmly as possible if you absolutely have too. I think the fact that my dog has been seriously injured by dogs running up to him on 3 separate occasions is the main reason why he’s terrified of any dog approaching him, and he would be scared no matter how calm or anxious the person walking him was. The owners anxiety is a factor, but a minor one.

However can I point out that for many reactive dogs it’s not just a case of exposing them to other dogs to socialise them, especially not strange dogs that will leap all over them. This May work for some dogs but it would just scare mine more and put other dogs in danger as he’s a big dog and it would be a perfectly natural response for him to injure other dogs if threatened which I’m sure other owners would object too. A muzzle isn’t guaranteed to prevent injuries either and wouldn’t make my dog less scared.
I’ve been told by several behaviourists that the way to help a reactive dog is to work at a distance from dogs that he is comfortable with and no professional has ever advised me to just let him off with other dogs. This wouldn’t be fair on him or the other dogs and it’s not “socialisation” at all.

@aquashiv

Omg this is so stressful just reading this ofcourse you don't let him off and hope for the best you fool but please chill out your dog is picking up on your emotions. Rescue dogs can be socialised and allowed to mix. So many new owners are going to freak out with out complicated you are making taking care of a dog..no wonder so many are ending up in shelters

New owners should realise that looking after a dog is a big responsibility so if they are freaked out by this they probably shouldn’t get a dog. It’s not that complicated to make sure your dog is under control.

And yes many rescue dogs can be allowed to mix but every dog is different. Some never want to mix with other dogs and will attack any dog that comes close. Some (like my dog) will only want to mix after being gradually introduced to another dog starting at a distance. And some will be fine to be let off with other calm dogs but not bouncy ones etc. So as an owner it’s important to not just assume every dog is friendly and can mix with any other dog (unless your ok with your dog maybe being bitten or scaring others).

It's not that difficult to train and socialise a dog either. I would question why still your dog is struggling..you seem to have many unrealistic dictates to acceptable canine behaviour. Why so many serious injuries. How has that happened?

Yes but my post was to HikeForward who stated that their dog starts reacting to dogs far away - so not being 'hassled' and then he/she starts shouting at them to keep their dog away and put it on a lead, this just isn't acceptable

By ‘reacting’ I meant as soon as an off lead dog charges across a field at him he goes rigid, alert and poised to defend himself. He doesn’t seek dogs out to attack!

Some dogs sense he isn’t friendly and turn back, but others don’t. On a short lead he’s under my full control UNTIL a foolish owner lets their dog rush up to him then he sometimes reacts with aggression. Better to prevent that by telling them to call their dog away and leash it than a fight.

because it's offensive to tell other people what to do when they're not doing anything wrong. This poster chose to take on a reactive dog of such a breed known for it's power and lethal attack. He/she chooses not to put a muzzle on the dog because she's worried he can't defend himself if attacked. She then choose to take the dog to places where she knows other dogs will be playing and running off lead

It’s not offensive to tell owners to keep their dog away, if their dog is in danger.
Luckily most people where we walk keep them on leads or have trained them not to bound up to unknown dogs!

Of course he’s not muzzled! He’s friendly to humans. He needs to be able to defend himself if an off lead dog attacks and sadly they do; he lost half an ear to a pitbull type who attacked unprovoked and has been attacked by another pitbull type since. Muzzling him only makes him vulnerable to aggressive off lead dogs!

It's not that difficult to train and socialise a dog either. I would question why still your dog is struggling

A lot depends on the dogs background, training, socialisation as a pup, past trauma. You can take a reactive dog to numerous trainers and classes and behaviouralists but dog aggression isn’t always ‘curable’.

@aquashiv he’s a rescue and I’m not sure exactly how they all happened as we don’t have a full history on him but I know that his last owner told the rescue centre he was attacked by 2 different dogs on the estate he used to live on and the vet reckoned he had a scar from a further attack too.
It’s not that hard to train and socialise a dog from a puppy but it can be hard to retrain a rescue that missed out on positive experiences under 16 weeks and has had bad experiences. With the help of a behaviourist we’ve made some good progress with him but I don’t think he’ll ever be the kind of dog that can handle strange dogs jumping all over him without being scared.
It is what it is though. I took him in knowing what he was like and that he was unlikely to be “cured” completely and also knowing what other dog owners are like/having realistic expectations. And I don’t regret it-he’s a great dog aside from being reactive when dogs are very close and I’m lucky that my lifestyle (access to quiet countryside and no young kids) means he has a nice home now. I just get frustrated sometimes as it’s horrible to see him scared by other dogs when it could easily be avoided by other people controlling their dogs. It’s not a massive deal in the grand scheme of things though

Depends on the size of the place you are walking your dog though. We have a small park and since lockdown dog buying madness, every fucker has got a reactive, unsocialised dog on a lead.

My dogs would never get to walk off lead if I put them back on lead every time we saw another dog on lead.

My dogs are well-socialised, not aggressive and with great recall, but I can't let them off lead since lockdown because there are so many dogs who aren't

I have never seen so many anxious owners that say its their dogs being reactive.
My neighbour rescues and I often volunteer to go out with her and let my two lumps socialise them. There's nothing nicer than seeing happy dogs playing

Reactive dogs are not necessarily reactive to all dogs. For GS we rent a field (about £3 per hour) or take him to private land to socialise off lead with other dogs his size. He loves playing off lead with dogs he knows.

It’s strange dogs that are the problem, dogs that come running up to him assuming he wants to play (owner either far away or thinks it’s ok to let her dog run up to him... until he lunges and attacks it. Then she blames me?!

If you see a dog on a lead, basic common sense/etiquette dictates you leash your dog. Unless the area is a designated "off lead zone" like dog park or dog field, you don't have more right to be there than owners of reactive dogs,

This is what was drummed into us at puppy classes when Ddog was little and I have stuck to it. I did used to resemble a meer cat bobbing up and down but have done my best to stick to it, always apologised if it went wrong.

Fool dog is nearly 12 now and her time off lead needs careful management. Too much bouncing and she can end up in substantial pain later. She doesn’t know her limits so I impose them. If an off lead dog approaches after her off lead time she will bounce and play and will look absolutely fine but the other dog’s owner by letting their dog approach my onlead dog is inadvertently potentially causing my dog pain.

I expect to be shown the same courtesy that Fool dog and I have shown to others but sadly there is a percentage of owners who are arseholes.

My dogs would never get to walk off lead if I put them back on lead every time we saw another dog on lead.

Yes, that comment about putting a dog on lead every time you see another dog on lead was probably the stupidest so far. Dogs are on leads for different reasons, most probably just because their owners didn't get them trained and now worried they'll run off!

Rescue dogs can be socialised and allowed to mix.

Of course, but socialisation isn't allowing them to mix with every dog you meet on walks. It's making sure they get lots of positive experiences and that means making sure they mix with calm, tolerant, chilled out dogs, not just dogs who happen to be around when you go for a walk.

@MrsBobDylan

Depends on the size of the place you are walking your dog though. We have a small park and since lockdown dog buying madness, every fucker has got a reactive, unsocialised dog on a lead.

My dogs would never get to walk off lead if I put them back on lead every time we saw another dog on lead.

My dogs are well-socialised, not aggressive and with great recall, but I can't let them off lead since lockdown because there are so many dogs who aren't

That’s a shame for your dog. It’s also a shame that there are more reactive dogs around due to people buying puppies and not socialising them. I think a small park is a tricky environment and requires compromise and it depends on who is in the park when you visit. Just as a park full of off lead dogs is not the best place to take a reactive dog if you can avoid it (I think many reactive dog owners do try to avoid it but some have nowhere else to walk), a small park with several on lead reactive dogs is not a suitable place to take your dog for off lead exercise unless you can call it away from the on lead dogs. Either work on recall, keep your dog on the lead or find somewhere where there are no on lead dogs, or be antisocial and let your dog off anyway and risk contributing to a reactive dogs anxiety/your dog being bitten.

@MrsBobDylan if your dogs have great recall then surely it’s easy to simply call them away from dogs on leads if they start to approach and the dog/owner is not comfortable? When I had a dog with great recall and walked in a busy city park this was no problem at all it was just a case of saying my dogs name and she came straight to my side.
If your dogs recall is reliable and they either don’t approach or can be called away from other dogs, then I doubt anyone would have a problem with your dogs being off lead. The OP has already said she has no problem with this kind of owner. It’s is the kind of owner that doesn’t have ‘great recall’ and can’t call their dogs away from others that is the problem.

Exactly what WiganNorthWest says.

Depends on the size of the place you are walking your dog though. We have a small park and since lockdown dog buying madness, every fucker has got a reactive, unsocialised dog on a lead. My dogs would never get to walk off lead if I put them back on lead every time we saw another dog on lead. My dogs are well-socialised, not aggressive and with great recall, but I can't let them off lead since lockdown because there are so many dogs who aren't

So walk them elsewhere? Or hire a field with like minded friends where they can have fun off lead?

If they have great recall and have been properly socialised they won’t be bouncing up to ‘greet’ strange dogs. But it’s common decency to put your dog on a lead in a busy park. My brother’s dogs have impeccable recall and ignore other dogs, but in a park they’re on lead so they don’t scare anyone by accident or cut up cyclists, make mums with babies anxious, trip up runaway toddlers or worry people trying to have picnics. Nobody else knows they have impeccable recall so it seems polite to keep them on lead in public!

@MrsBobDylan

Depends on the size of the place you are walking your dog though. We have a small park and since lockdown dog buying madness, every fucker has got a reactive, unsocialised dog on a lead.

My dogs would never get to walk off lead if I put them back on lead every time we saw another dog on lead.

My dogs are well-socialised, not aggressive and with great recall, but I can't let them off lead since lockdown because there are so many dogs who aren't

I don’t see the problem. If they have good recall, you just call them to heel if you see another dog is tensing or uncomfortable. They don’t need to be on a lead, just walking beside your left hand. You can simply direct them to run in another direction away from the nervous dog. We’ve never had any issue from other owners or dogs on leads if ours is held close to heel when near those on leads.

If she looks uncomfortable about the wayward ‘playful ‘ dogs we recall her to heel and send the other dog on its way. If a dog persists in pestering, I pop it on a lead and hand it back to its owner, who is often some distance away and not keeping the dog under proper control.

I don’t see the problem. If they have good recall, you just call them to heel if you see another dog is tensing or uncomfortable. They don’t need to be on a lead, just walking beside your left hand

MrsBobDylan was responding to the poster (a Professional dog walker so obviously an expert) who said it's normal and decent to put your dog on a lead every time you see another dog on lead. That is just ridiculous.

Threads like this show up how everyone got an opinion on how to be with dogs, just the same as we've all got an opinion on bringing up our children. What one lot think is wrong and not 'decent' behaviour and letting them run wild, another lot are perfectly happy with. As long as you obey the laws/rules on dogs then both will have to put up with each other!

MrsBobDylan was responding to the poster (a Professional dog walker so obviously an expert) who said it's normal and decent to put your dog on a lead every time you see another dog on lead. That is just ridiculous.

If your dog is happy to walk at your side and bother other dogs, then they obviously don't need to be physically leashed.

I never said I was an expert - but all the training I've had has said that this is the right thing to do around other dogs. If your dog can be kept under control with verbal commands only then that's fine.

If you see a dog on a lead, basic common sense/etiquette dictates you leash your dog.

That's what you said yesterday @sunflowersandbuttercups.

Actually I agree that if dog will stay by your side then no need to put on lead. The key point is that your dog doesn’t approach another dog that is leashed.

Where we walk there are a number of dogs who are trained enough that they will stay by their owners or do their own thing without getting in my dog’s space and that is fine and works well. It’s those owners who have an off lead dog who approach.

To the other owner my dog will look fine and want to play which she will but sadly as she doesn’t know her own limits now she is older I have ti impose them on her. They see a dog bouncing ready to play but don’t see her panting in pain later. If they walk by with unleashed dog by side then there isn’t an issue,

Actually I agree that if dog will stay by your side then no need to put on lead. The key point is that your dog doesn’t approach another dog that is leashed

I agree with this too, but in reality very few off lead dogs walk to heel or recall to heel the instant you see a dog on lead.

If owners care about their dogs as much as they claim they’d prioritise the dog’s safety over its ‘need to run around and play’. Until it’s trained to recall instantly and can be trusted to never approach dogs on leads it’s in the dog’s best interests to be on lead in public.

One day it will ‘greet’ the wrong on-lead dog and if that dog is larger, faster and dog aggressive you can hardly blame the owner.

@ImpatiensI

If you see a dog on a lead, basic common sense/etiquette dictates you leash your dog.

That's what you said yesterday @sunflowersandbuttercups.

Yes, I'm aware of what I said, so there's no need to try and catch me out to prove a point.

I do still believe that to be true - it is common sense to leash your dog because it's a nice thing to do and puts other peoples' minds at rest. I mean, I do accept that some dogs will walk by their owners side without the need for a lead, but I don't see why some people are so determined not to put their dogs on a lead.

If you can guarantee that your off-lead dog will ignore every single leashed dog, and walk nicely by your side while they pass, that's fine, but there's no need to get upset or whatever when other people ask you nicely to put a lead on. They don't know your dog, and why should they believe you when you say they're friendly/won't bother yours?

If owners care about their dogs as much as they claim they’d prioritise the dog’s safety over its ‘need to run around and play’

Those are of equal importance.

One day it will ‘greet’ the wrong on-lead dog and if that dog is larger, faster and dog aggressive you can hardly blame the owner.

Of course you can blame the owner if they know their dog is violent and they take it to a public park when they also know it will come in contact with other dogs.

Yes, I'm aware of what I said, so there's no need to try and catch me out to prove a point.

No need to catch you out, I'm pointing out your inconsistency.

there's no need to get upset or whatever when other people ask you nicely to put a lead on.

That was not what the discussion was at that point, it was about people shouting aggressive and confrontational making a bad situation worse.