Another dog moan - aibu

[Cocothecat27]

I have a small terrier who is quite reactive to other dogs. He's mostly just very barky but he has been known to have a little snap at other dogs if they come up to him, not that he'd do any damage as he's tiny. He seems particularly reactive when he's on lead and other dogs approach him who aren't.

We are working on this, he's still very young. But for this reason he is always on a lead.

Three times this week we have been approached in public places by dogs off lead. The owners always say the same thing - it's ok he/she is fine. But my dog isn't always fine and if he snaps at yours and a fight happens it'll most likely be my very small, on the lead dog that comes off worse.

We had an incident yesterday where a huge dog came bounding over to us which is pretty scary as it is. My idiot dog started going crazy and I had to pick him up.

I tell people sorry he can be a bit snappy at times, as though it's my fault! but if their dog was on a lead too it wouldn't be a problem would it? I'm working on my dog being less reactive but it doesn't help when these things keeps happening. Aibu to find it really annoying?

Sounds like you’re new to having a dog and are totally over-reacting to both being out with it and to the comments on here. There are about a million dogs in our park now and I’ve yet to encounter anything like you seem to have while out training/walking our puppy.
Even the best trained dogs don’t have 100% recall. And it sounds like you have a lot of work to do with learning how to train your dog, or maybe accept the fact that some people just aren’t meant to have dogs as pets.

The thing is, there's not much you can do about irresponsible dog owners. There's been a massive explosion in dog ownership in my city, there's just too many of them. I work in a vets and we've been turning away new clients by the dozen as we just don't have the capacity for any more patients. Lots of my clients reporting that they're finding walking their dogs very stressful at the moment.
But, you like many have chosen to buy a lockdown puppy, all these pups are missing out on vital socialisation prior to going to their new homes. A decent breeder would normally have many visitors for example during the first few weeks of life, this has obviously not been happening in lockdown, many of these dogs will end up fearful/reactive.
If you're dog is reactive personally I would recommend muzzle training asap, lots of videos on YouTube on how to do this.

You've never had an off lead dog approach you? You're very fortunate. Seems quite rare judging by the comments here to never have experienced it.

After being approached three times this week by off lead dogs, one of which was massive and boisterous, I suppose I've just got a bit pissed off with it. I wouldn't like it regardless of whether or not I had my own dog with me.

We got him before lockdown.

‘ I really don't think I am the problem here.’

You need to accept the fact that the world isn’t going to revolve around your dogs needs. If you can’t handle the dog maybe he’s not the one for you.
I can think of half a dozen reasons why a dog might be on a lead - I’m lead training our puppy now, but he is friendly, easy going and plays well with other dogs. I dont expect other owners to give us a wide berth because he’s on a lead. He’s also on a lead coming in and out of our park - again I don’t think other dog walkers who’s dogs can be trusted to be off the lead near roads should spot us and immediately catch hold of their dog.
You need to get used to the idea that other people, kids and dogs WILL come up to you sometimes and not freak out everything it happens. That really isn’t helping your dog.

Oh I though he was a puppy when you said he'd missed a vital socialisation period. In that case since you're inexperienced I would recommend a clinical behaviourist if your trainer is unable to sort the problem. Your vet should be able to recommend one.

‘ You've never had an off lead dog approach you? ’

Of course we have, that’s what dogs do! But it doesn’t send me into a panicky tailspin, and make me snatch up my dog and go on the internet to demand owners keep their dogs on leads... it’s normal. And it’s fine. YOU’RE the main problem here if it happening so aggressively so many times then that is unusual...

I am quite surprised with the number of owners with bigger dogs who recall their dog as soon as they see my small dog and are surprise when I say he's fine with big friendly big dogs.

I had quite a few telling me that many owners of small dogs panic as soon as they see their bigger dog just minding their business but which might involve getting closer to the direction of the smaller dogs despite being big gentle softies.

It's natural to be more protective of smaller dog but I do agree that it can be a disservice to not allow them to interact and more importntly get them to learn to judge as much as a dog can which is friendly and which isn't.

My 1 year old now is quite amazingly able to sense it better than me. He will sometimes run to bigger dogs yet stare and stay away from others. So far, he's got it very right. Of course I keep a close eye.

I also agree that there's nothing wrong at all with a growling dog. It's their way to say 'back off'. It's not aggressive, just communicating their wishes.

I think it’s really unfair to blame the person who has their dog on a lead. If your dog is off lead and under control, they are not a problem. Under control means not pestering other dogs who are on leads. Of course you should stop your off lead did doing that.
Coming through gates and narrow entrances, around stiles and in crowded places off lead dogs should be held at heel, not off upsetting others.
80% recall is not recall. The dog deciding what they do is not being under control. The responsibility sits with the owners of the dogs who are intimidating the on lead dog.
A well trained dog should be capable of walking to heel regardless of distractions, running only where directed and returning on first whistle. If they cannot do that, they need to be on leads near others and taken somewhere else to ‘play’.
If you are worried about other dogs, try a secure dog field for their off lead training and run around space. The more threatened they feel by other dogs bouncing up to them, the more they will react. That’s the problem with the ’dogs will be dogs’ brigade, they ruin things for others and don’t accept full control of their beasts.

Under control means not pestering other dogs who are on leads
I totally agree, but posters often refer to 'aporiaching' and it's not very clear what is meant by that. A dog approaching in the direction, owing down within 1 metre, gently sniffing and then going away if they sense the dog isn't receprive is in my view approaching but not pestering. This is the common scenario in my experience.

Dogs approaching quickly and going straight for the dog on the lead, insisting to sniff their bottom is pestering. This happens occasionally but much less often than the former.

A well trained dog should be capable of walking to heel regardless of distractions, running only where directed and returning on first whistle
Capable is different to expecting at all time. Just like I took my kids to the park to let off some steam and experience some freedom from house rules, I take my dog on a walk to also enjoy the freedom. I do call him when necessary, am always on alert, always make eye contact with the owners, especially if the other dog is on the lead and will call my dog if I sense nervousness or tell me their dog is reactive, but I don't expect him to walk right next to me at all time.

Just like I took my kids to the park to let off some steam and experience some freedom from house rules, I take my dog on a walk to also enjoy the freedom

That's how I think of it - tho I tend to go in woods/beaches for daytime walks and parks in the evening/early morning when they're quieter - for my sake not his!

The comparison is very good - dc need to be allowed to play and explore and meet other kids, maybe have a tumble and hurt themselves and get up without a parent hovering around all the time making a huge fuss.

Good to see some 'normal' dog owners on here today, who expect other dogs to come up to theirs as part of normal interaction - with dogs and owners - and don't have a meltdown and demand that all dogs be on lead.

I have a reactive dog and she tends to show aggression when she is on the lead if a dog approaches her. The very few times she's been off lead around other dogs there has been no aggression. I think it's the lead that bothers her. She is a rescue.

I also then have a dog who is ALWAYS off lead but has 100% re-call. Friendly, obedient, calm.

My rescue has a bright yellow lead which says NERVOUS in bold letters. It works, some of the time.

Ultimately, when the rescue came to me my dog walking habits had to change. For me and my two dogs to be able to enjoy our walks I avoid places where there might be lots of dogs. I don't like the thought of owning a dog who has to be on a lead all the time, so if I pick my places my rescue can enjoy being off lead with my other dog. I'm lucky as I live semi-rural. It's just easier and more enjoyable if all three of us go somewhere that suits us.

@dontdisturbmenow

A well trained dog should be capable of walking to heel regardless of distractions, running only where directed and returning on first whistle Capable is different to expecting at all time. Just like I took my kids to the park to let off some steam and experience some freedom from house rules, I take my dog on a walk to also enjoy the freedom. I do call him when necessary, am always on alert, always make eye contact with the owners, especially if the other dog is on the lead and will call my dog if I sense nervousness or tell me their dog is reactive, but I don't expect him to walk right next to me at all time.

If you can call your dog away from on lead dogs when requested and are always supervising your dog, then you’re clearly not the sort of owner the OP is getting annoyed about and I doubt most people would object to your well trained dog being off lead. Doesn’t change the fact that there are many other dog owners that pay no attention to their dogs and can’t call them away from people or other dogs and it is bloody annoying at best and potentially dangerous.

I think some dog owners will never understand unless they get a reactive dog or have a child/vulnerable adult who is scared of dogs.

I have a similar issue OP one of my dogs is very good off the lead, he absolutely loves other dogs and has great manners however he is reactive when on the lead. I have just had to accept that their are a lot of stupid dog owners and after many near misses with smaller dogs running up to play and him having to be restrained I changed when I walk. In the week the area I walk is completely quiet so we go as normal but weekends see people driving out to walk in the countryside so I either go early morning or evening when it is quieter. Also if we are in an area where he can safely go off lead but I have him on it and we see another dog off lead approaching I usually call to the owner to ask if they're happy to play and then let him off. Obviously this tactic only works if your boy is only reactive on lead not off it.

WiganNorthWest. Absolutely spot on. Crowded public places are where your dogs need to be under firm control. Most responsible owners accept that. The letting off steam running is for uncrowded places where they can explore freely without intimidating others - be they dog or human.
Letting your dog approach uninvited is pestering. It’s Iill mannered, just as letting your toddler burst into the middle of a football game is rude.

If you have good recall, if they can be pulled back when you see tension in the other dog, or discomfort in the owner, you are not a problem.
It’s the feeling of a God given right to let your large beast run around in a ‘friendly’ way that is the problem. It’s only friendly if the other party wants it.

@ImpatiensI

Just like I took my kids to the park to let off some steam and experience some freedom from house rules, I take my dog on a walk to also enjoy the freedom

That's how I think of it - tho I tend to go in woods/beaches for daytime walks and parks in the evening/early morning when they're quieter - for my sake not his!

The comparison is very good - dc need to be allowed to play and explore and meet other kids, maybe have a tumble and hurt themselves and get up without a parent hovering around all the time making a huge fuss.

Good to see some 'normal' dog owners on here today, who expect other dogs to come up to theirs as part of normal interaction - with dogs and owners - and don't have a meltdown and demand that all dogs be on lead.

I don’t think the issue is that the OP is an inexperienced owner. I’ve actually found that it’s the inexperienced owners that let their dogs run up to other dogs and assume all dogs will welcome the interaction, whereas more experienced owners understand that dogs approaching reactive dogs and pestering people can be scary/annoying/unwelcome so train and control their dogs, using a lead if necessary.

I understand that some dogs need/want to interact with others to enrich their lives and that doesn’t bother me-if dogs approach other friendly dogs (either other off lead dogs or dogs on leads that the owner has given permission for a dog to interact with). I also don’t really mind if a well socialised dog that is able to read dog body language starts to approach mine, sees that mine is telling it to back off by growling and snapping and then backs off. What I hate is when dogs that can’t read body language charge up to and try and play with a dog that is clearly very scared, uncomfortable and may bite. This isn’t fair on either dog-one is in danger of injury and one is really stressed.
Dog owners should remember that, whilst they should be allowed to let their dog socialise with others and have fun, they need to remember that not all dogs are social and some are fearful of other dogs and these dogs have just as much as a right to have a nice time in a public space as friendly dogs do. I can’t believe that some people seem to think that dogs that don’t like other dogs don’t deserve to be walked-when you say “walk somewhere else” often fields, woods and any area you can walk a dog (apart from the pavement) are monopolised by out of control dogs and their selfish owners.

Genuine question: Am I not meant to allow my (large) puppy to approach off-lead other dogs to play or say hello?

I find these threads so confusing as I don’t know how to socialise my puppy, practise recall and allow her some freedom running around the (dog walking) park.

@Greenmarmalade

Genuine question: Am I not meant to allow my (large) puppy to approach off-lead other dogs to play or say hello?

I find these threads so confusing as I don’t know how to socialise my puppy, practise recall and allow her some freedom running around the (dog walking) park.

Just check with the owner first. My dog doesn't appreciate dogs bowling over to him.

@Greenmarmalade

Genuine question: Am I not meant to allow my (large) puppy to approach off-lead other dogs to play or say hello?

I find these threads so confusing as I don’t know how to socialise my puppy, practise recall and allow her some freedom running around the (dog walking) park.

If your dog can't be recalled it should be ok a lead or longline.

Generally it's acceptable for off-lead dogs to say hello but not all dogs would want a giant breed puppy all over them so it's important you make sure you can call your pup away if necessary 😊

I've seen people with dogs on yellow / clearly marked leads or harnesses. It means they aren't to be approached and around here it's widely accepted and acknowledged by dog walkers.

Just a thought, if you don't already have one.

www.yellowdoguk.co.uk

@WiganNorthWest in case you didn't see my first post, my dog is reactive and wears yellow'nervous' collar. So I understand the difficulties but I just don't expect all other dogs and owners to keep away from us and he wouldn't want that anyway.

@Greenmarmalade

Genuine question: Am I not meant to allow my (large) puppy to approach off-lead other dogs to play or say hello?

I find these threads so confusing as I don’t know how to socialise my puppy, practise recall and allow her some freedom running around the (dog walking) park.

I work on the principle that, if it's a park full of off lead dogs, you'd have to be mad to take a seriously reactive dog there, so I'll presume that dogs taken to that area are dog friendly (IME most big local parks have areas where dog owners congregate more than others, I'm thinking of those areas).

Just make sure you brush up on dog body language so you can call your puppy away when others get irritated.

Even perfectly nice, well mannered dogs will eventually decided that enough is enough, and put in place some boundaries for your puppy - otherwise known as a warning followed by a telling off. It's a normal part of dog interaction (and very different from your dog being attacked) but ideally you don't want it to get to that stage.

It's better to recognise the signs that the other dog isn't much enjoying your puppy's exuberance and recall your puppy (long line if necessary!) rather than allowing him to pester.

@Greenmarmalade

Genuine question: Am I not meant to allow my (large) puppy to approach off-lead other dogs to play or say hello?

I find these threads so confusing as I don’t know how to socialise my puppy, practise recall and allow her some freedom running around the (dog walking) park.

I always thought the etiquette was it’s fine to let dogs approach off lead dogs as 2 dogs interacting off lead is much safer than one on lead. You should still be able to call your dog back from other dogs though. What I think isn’t ok is letting your dog approach (by approach I mean get within biting distance/within a metre) on lead dogs without the owners permission , especially if the dog is visibly stressed/fearful/aggressive in the presence of your dog. Also, please be mindful that many people are scared of/don’t like being approached by (especially jumper up at) dogs of any size. So make sure you can call your dog away from people if they look uncomfortable or ask you too. I can’t believe the amount of people that are totally fine with scaring strangers and dogs by having their dog out of control and use their dogs “freedom/right to have a good time” to justify their inconsiderate behaviour. What about other people/dogs right to have a nice stress free walk? Of course, there’s nothing really stopping you just letting your puppy approach on lead dogs and people and most of the time nothing that bad will happen. But I’d say you run quite a high risk of making members of the public uncomfortable/scaring people’s pets/generally looking like a bit of a dick. So just depends what kind of person you are really. I always think that seeing how people handle their dogs in public is a bit of an indicator as to who the considerate people are and who the selfish twats are.

I am quite surprised with the number of owners with bigger dogs who recall their dog as soon as they see my small dog and are surprise when I say he's fine with big friendly big dogs
Your dog sounds lovely.

I'm particularly wary of smaller dogs, partially because I used to be scared of dogs and smaller dogs are (in my experience) much more likely to be yappy and snappy and jumpy because their owners accept that sort of behaviour on the grounds of 'they're small so it's fine'. The other reason is when I've experienced unnecessary conflict from dog owners it's typically been from owners of poorly trained or poorly socialised smaller dogs.

I think a minority of small dog owners like the idea of a dog, but don't want anything too big, doesn't need too much walking, but then think sticking them on a retractable lead with next to no training, or even off lead with next to no training is acceptable because their dog is small. In my experience this type of owner can be quick to get quite confrontational with owners of larger dogs. One got quite arsey with me because I shouted "no" at their dog for trying to jump up my leg to get treats, which prompted one of mine to bark. Apparently my at heel dog telling their out of control rat to back off as we walk is a sign that my dogs are out of control, whereas obviously her little dog is perfectly fine as it's my fault for carrying treats with me when her dog likes biscuits.