Another dog moan - aibu

[Cocothecat27]

I have a small terrier who is quite reactive to other dogs. He's mostly just very barky but he has been known to have a little snap at other dogs if they come up to him, not that he'd do any damage as he's tiny. He seems particularly reactive when he's on lead and other dogs approach him who aren't.

We are working on this, he's still very young. But for this reason he is always on a lead.

Three times this week we have been approached in public places by dogs off lead. The owners always say the same thing - it's ok he/she is fine. But my dog isn't always fine and if he snaps at yours and a fight happens it'll most likely be my very small, on the lead dog that comes off worse.

We had an incident yesterday where a huge dog came bounding over to us which is pretty scary as it is. My idiot dog started going crazy and I had to pick him up.

I tell people sorry he can be a bit snappy at times, as though it's my fault! but if their dog was on a lead too it wouldn't be a problem would it? I'm working on my dog being less reactive but it doesn't help when these things keeps happening. Aibu to find it really annoying?

@HikeForward

It's not practical though, is it? To try to grab your own dog every time another dog appears in the vicinity on a lead. You'd need the eyes of a hawk in some parks to keep on a dog like that

You either have eyes of a hawk and have trained your dog to have instant, impeccable recall or it should be on a lead in public. If your dog runs up to say hi to on-lead dogs he’s at risk of being attacked by a reactive dog. If you want him off lead you train him out of approaching dogs on leads.

Reactive dogs can be walked safely on leads in public areas, no need to banish them to the countryside or walk them at night in case a bad mannered dog gets in their face; it’s the off lead dogs being put in danger by their owners.

This!

If a random stranger ran up to me in the street and tried to jump on me and hug me then I’m liable to snarl at them and possibly even bite.

Don’t expect my dog to behave any differently when your out of control bad mannered dog does the same to him 🤷🏻‍♀️

@SkeletonSkins

I think a massive massive problem we have is so many novice dog owners thing ‘socialisation’ means playing with as many dogs as possible from a young age, when actually what it should mean is learning to be around other dogs calmly, learning to ignore other dogs when told to and focus on the owner, and playing with dogs when permitted, reading and respecting the other dogs body language.

Letting your dog play with other dogs endlessly is NOT socialisation.

One million percent this!!

SkeletonSkins Indeed. Indeed.

@SkeletonSkins

I think a massive massive problem we have is so many novice dog owners thing ‘socialisation’ means playing with as many dogs as possible from a young age, when actually what it should mean is learning to be around other dogs calmly, learning to ignore other dogs when told to and focus on the owner, and playing with dogs when permitted, reading and respecting the other dogs body language.

Letting your dog play with other dogs endlessly is NOT socialisation.

I agree. I actually think that teaching your dog that every dog is a playmate is really unfair to your dog and can put them in danger if they try to initiate play with a dog that doesn’t want to play. It also makes them more likely to be leash reactive due to frustration. There are lots of dogs around that get so excited whenever they see another dog and can’t calmly assess the situation/read negative body language. These dogs have more chance of being bitten and becoming reactive themselves.

Teaching your dog that every dog is a playmate is teaching them very unnatural behaviour. No other species (wolves for example) responds to seeing a strange new member of its species by running over to it and trying to play because this is not a safe evolutionary strategy. Dogs in packs wouldn’t do this, it’s a potentially dangerous behaviour that humans have taught dogs and it’s actually pretty negligent. Properly socialised dogs don’t charge over to strange new dogs and start jumping all over them, they approach calmly and cautiously assess if the other dog is up for playing, and back away from growling/defensive dogs. Poorly socialised dogs have become so common that people think this is natural behaviour when it isn’t really.

And by doing shouting aggressively you add to the tension in the situation. Not good

Why is it aggressive to shout ‘put your dog on a lead mine isn’t friendly!’ ?

GS spots the dog long before me and gets excited, barking and lunging. Any responsible owner would recall and leash their dog at this point without being told! If they don’t their dog may jump into his space and get hurt.

I have a puppy and feel I need to prioritise her socialising and enjoying off-lead time, but also am very worried about how she greets every dog and how fast she runs

If you want to prioritise her off lead time do it on private land or hire a field or take her to classes. Until she learns not to greet every dog and has impeccable recall she should not be off lead at all. If she greets the wrong on-lead dog or won’t recall or runs so fast you can’t see what’s she doing, she’s at risk of being attacked. Most on lead dogs are on leads for a reason.

why is it aggressive to shout 'put your dog on a lead, mine isn't friendly!'?

That isn't what you said. You said you shout at them to 'get their dog away from mine'. That's aggressive and confrontational, adding to stress for your dog.

Also you've got no right to tell other ppl how to behave because your dog is difficult. Mine can be too and I don't dream of putting it on other dog walkers!

@ImpatiensI

why is it aggressive to shout 'put your dog on a lead, mine isn't friendly!'?

That isn't what you said. You said you shout at them to 'get their dog away from mine'. That's aggressive and confrontational, adding to stress for your dog.

Also you've got no right to tell other ppl how to behave because your dog is difficult. Mine can be too and I don't dream of putting it on other dog walkers!

I think that owners have every right to try and protect their pet from situations they find scary (being hassled by dogs when they’ve made it clear they are uncomfortable). Of course you should be polite, but I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask people to keep their dog away from yours and I don’t know why anyone would take offence to this (unless they know their dog is out of control and have a guilty conscience over it). Like, the OP, I think owners have a responsibility to keep their dogs away from reactive dogs if asked. There is a difference between ASKING and TELLING people how to behave though so I agree saying please call your dog back is better than saying keep your dog away from mine. I think it’s reasonable to be pissed off when other people let their dogs scare yours and don’t have any control-I’m afraid I do put the responsibility of being able to control an off lead dog on the owner of the dog.

@ImpatiensI if your dog is fear reactive, is it’s life not really stressful if you’re fine with people letting their dogs scare it all the time?

That isn't what you said. You said you shout at them to 'get their dog away from mine'. That's aggressive and confrontational, adding to stress for your dog. Also you've got no right to tell other ppl how to behave because your dog is difficult. Mine can be too and I don't dream of putting it on other dog walkers!

I don’t think either statement is aggressive. If GS is lunging and pulling I may not have time to go for the polite option. If owner is far away then shouting a command is the only way she can hear.

Mine is only difficult if off lead dogs get in his face. So he’s always walked on a short lead. He’s a big fast GS and can easily get another dog by the throat if he feels threatened. Me shouting ‘get your dog away!’ or something along those lines is to protect your dog.

It’s neither aggressive nor confrontational to tell other owners to keep their dog away from mine. They shouldn’t be off lead at all until they have impeccable recall and are trained not to run up to on lead dogs.

Also you've got no right to tell other ppl how to behave because your dog is difficult.

I'm a professional dog walker and I have ZERO problem with telling other people to control their dogs. I walk lots of dogs who are on-lead due to reactivity issues - the other week a lady let her aggressive collie run up and snarl at mine and try to bite him. She had ZERO control over him and the dog I was walking was absolutely petrified as this dog (about 3-4 times it's size) was snapping, snarling and trying to bite.

I absolutely told her to get her dog under control - why on earth shouldn't I? My dog was on a lead and minding his own business until the other dog tried to attack him.

If you can't control your dog, keep it on a lead.

Owners have every right to try and protect their dogs. If you don't want your dog shouted at, or you don't want to be asked to control your animal, then you should keep it on a lead and/or away from leashed dogs in the first place. It's really not difficult.

I think that owners have every right to try and protect their pet from situations they find scary (being hassled by dogs when they’ve made it clear they are uncomfortable).

Yes but my post was to HikeForward who stated that their dog starts reacting to dogs far away - so not being 'hassled' and then he/she starts shouting at them to keep their dog away and put it on a lead, this just isn't acceptable.

I don’t know why anyone would take offence to this (unless they know their dog is out of control and have a guilty conscience over it)

No. It's because it's offensive to tell other people what to do when they're not doing anything wrong. This poster chose to take on a reactive dog of such a breed known for it's power and lethal attack. He/she chooses not to put a muzzle on the dog because she's worried he can't defend himself if attacked. She then choose to take the dog to places where she knows other dogs will be playing and running off lead.

I would not make such choices but it's not my business to tell her what to do - same as it's not her business to tell other people to change how they decide to handle their dogs (within the law/rules) because of her choices.

@sunflowersandbuttercups obviously if your dog is being attacked you will shout at the owner and defend your dog. That's not the point of the thread.

[quote ImpatiensI]**@sunflowersandbuttercups* obviously* if your dog is being attacked you will shout at the owner and defend your dog. That's not the point of the thread.[/quote]
But it's all part of the same pattern of behaviour.

For reactive dogs, a strange dog barrelling to their personal spae can be incredibly frightening - I don't want the dog I'm walking to be set back in his/her training because other people can't be bothered to shout their dogs back.

If you see a dog on a lead, basic common sense/etiquette dictates you leash your dog. Unless the area is a designated "off lead zone" like dog park or dog field, you don't have more right to be there than owners of reactive dogs,

I really don't understand why so many people on this thread seem to have a problem with putting their dogs on lead.

If you see a dog on a lead, basic common sense/etiquette dictates you leash your dog.

Sorry but that's a ridiculous statement and no dog owners I know in real life expects such a thing.

I really don't understand why so many people on this thread seem to have a problem with putting their dogs on lead.

Exactly my point in my post above. You don't understand their choice and you aren't tolerant of it. That doesn't make your opinion right.

I think if you see an off lead dog and you have a reactive dog it’s good sense/not offensive at all to call a polite warning to the other owner to not let their dog approach even if it’s not yet approaching. This just prevents a bad situation from occurring and most owners seem to appreciate me warning them not to let their dogs approach. When you have a reactive dog and you see an off lead dog, it’s impossible to tell if it’s the kind of dog that will bound over or the kind that will ignore/respect my dog’s wish not to interact and you only have a split second to act before a dog comes running over and puts itself at risk of injury so it’s a good idea to warn the other owner that your dog isn’t friendly so they can decide to keep their dog away for its own safety/out of respect for the reactive dog and owners wishes. Really don’t see how that’s offensive-people seem to appreciate the warning.

Sorry but that's a ridiculous statement and no dog owners I know in real life expects such a thing.

It's not remotely ridiculous and thankfully, everyone where I live is quite happy to pop their dog on a lead for a minute while we pass.

Exactly my point in my post above. You don't understand their choice and you aren't tolerant of it. That doesn't make your opinion right.

I do understand their choice, but why should I be tolerant of a choice that negatively impacts the dog I'm walking and frightens them?

You putting your dog on a lead doesn't harm them or scare them, so why exactly is it so problematic for you to do it?

This word reactive means what exactly.
Quite often it's a dog that's scared...the more you keep him on a lead the worse he will get. No one will mind if he yaps or even nips...let him socialise.

@WiganNorthWest

I think if you see an off lead dog and you have a reactive dog it’s good sense/not offensive at all to call a polite warning to the other owner to not let their dog approach even if it’s not yet approaching. This just prevents a bad situation from occurring and most owners seem to appreciate me warning them not to let their dogs approach. When you have a reactive dog and you see an off lead dog, it’s impossible to tell if it’s the kind of dog that will bound over or the kind that will ignore/respect my dog’s wish not to interact and you only have a split second to act before a dog comes running over and puts itself at risk of injury so it’s a good idea to warn the other owner that your dog isn’t friendly so they can decide to keep their dog away for its own safety/out of respect for the reactive dog and owners wishes. Really don’t see how that’s offensive-people seem to appreciate the warning.

Some people just like looking for an argument on here I think.

Meanwhile, in the real world, pretty much everyone calls their off-lead dogs away from my leashed ones, and pops them on a lead while we pass - because they're decent people and it doesn't cause a problem for them to do so.

However on MN, asking someone to put their dog on a lead is tantamount to animal abuse.

But then again I walk in the countryside where you don’t see many dogs and if you do it’s just in passing. So it’s a simple case of calling your off lead dog back and putting it on a lead for the minute or so it takes for the owner of an on lead dog to pass out of sight and no one has a problem doing this (and people are generally mortified if they let their dog approach mine). I imagine it’s not so simple in a busy park where there are more dogs around and off lead and on lead dogs share the same space for a prolonged period. I’ve not walked in a busy park for a while because I avoid them with my reactive dog, but when I had a friendly well trained dog I did and I remember it being simple enough to keep an eye out for on lead dogs and stop her from approaching them.

I have never seen so many anxious owners that say its their dogs being reactive.
My neighbour rescues and I often volunteer to go out with her and let my two lumps socialise them. There's nothing nicer than seeing happy dogs playing.
Try not to worry Op dogs are very smart and they feed off your emotions.

@aquashiv

This word reactive means what exactly. Quite often it's a dog that's scared...the more you keep him on a lead the worse he will get. No one will mind if he yaps or even nips...let him socialise.

I really wish people wouldn't say things like that.

I walk a dog who is on-lead for his own safety. He has zero recall and due to his upbringing (he's a rescue) - he hasn't had much experience with other dogs. He wasn't even walked until he was well over a year old.

Yes, reactive dogs are scared but that doesn't mean you just let them off lead and hope for the best

Really don’t see how that’s offensive-people seem to appreciate the warning.

It's not offensive the way you are putting it but that isn't the way the poster I replied to put it (as I've already pointed out). You should be aware though that you are adding to the stress of your dog by doing making the situation bigger.

As I also pointed out, my own ddog is reactive/nervous. I made really good progress by walking him in quieter places and staying very calm when other dogs come near - I never shout to them or tell them what to do so my dog doesn't get a signal that this is a 'bad' situation.

Some people just like looking for an argument on here I think.

Yes, by suggesting people who don't follow your made-up rules are not 'decent' and making unnecessary remarks like this:
'However on MN, asking someone to put their dog on a lead is tantamount to animal abuse.'