Fed up with everyone leaving London

[Arlington45]

My partner and I are both from London, both sets of parents are in fairly near areas to us. We have no intention of leaving London.

But so many people are. My son (6) keeps having to say goodbye to school friends. Is this going to mess him up, having no sense of security with friends sticking around? I hope at some point it will settle down but at the moment it feels like a mass exodus.

I don't feel pissed off with the people leaving, I get it. But I do feel fed up. AIBU?

I think it's par for the course with living in London tbh. There are negative things about anywhere you choose to live.

[quote bendmeoverbackwards]**@BeagleEagle personally I love The Ledbury restaurant[/quote]
Sadly it's shut down now as a result of the pandemic.

I think one of the emotional changes the OP is facing - and I struggle in the same way when friends of mine move out of London - is the implicit (and some times explicit) criticism of your own life choices that emerge. Every time a friend has moved they end up saying things like ‘well it’s not safe to raise teenagers in London’ or ‘well the schools are terrible in London’ and it makes you feel like you’re choosing to send your own kids to dangerous terrible schools and that they think you’re a terrible parent for not also moving away. I’m sure they don’t mean that but it does make you second guess yourself and then go on the defensive. There are benefits and drawbacks of living in cities, in towns, in villages, in the middle of nowhere, of living up north and down south and everywhere in between. We all make the decisions that are best for us and of course they are all different. We’ve decided to raise our kids in London and don’t think anyone should judge us for that in the same way I try not to judge others who make different life choices. But as I said before When meeting new ‘mum’ friends I’m very keen to establish whether they’re also here for the duration, so I don’t invest too much energy in new people who won’t be here for more than a year. I’ve already got enough ex-London friends who have moved out that I could visit a beautiful countryside location every other week!

@hahaboink thats a great strategy....but how exactly do you suss that out? whether people are likely to stay long term i mean

@murbblurb

indigenous???

all the reasons to live in London aren't there at the moment, so residents are just left with the crappy bits. Hopefully the good bits will return.

Don't see that post. However if someone used the term, it is cause for a chuckle. Do they mean the Roman or contemporary populations who were in situ before other groups migrated from mainland Europe?

Large groups of migrants have been a feature to and fro around these Islands (and the whole world) since the Ice age sheets froze and then melted.

My cousin is trying to buy a second home on the Northumberland Coast (we are from the North East) and she keeps getting pipped to the post even though her budget is high 700k. Estate agents have said the market has gone crazy with people moving up.

@hahaboink

I think one of the emotional changes the OP is facing - and I struggle in the same way when friends of mine move out of London - is the implicit (and some times explicit) criticism of your own life choices that emerge. Every time a friend has moved they end up saying things like ‘well it’s not safe to raise teenagers in London’ or ‘well the schools are terrible in London’ and it makes you feel like you’re choosing to send your own kids to dangerous terrible schools and that they think you’re a terrible parent for not also moving away. I’m sure they don’t mean that but it does make you second guess yourself and then go on the defensive. There are benefits and drawbacks of living in cities, in towns, in villages, in the middle of nowhere, of living up north and down south and everywhere in between. We all make the decisions that are best for us and of course they are all different. We’ve decided to raise our kids in London and don’t think anyone should judge us for that in the same way I try not to judge others who make different life choices. But as I said before When meeting new ‘mum’ friends I’m very keen to establish whether they’re also here for the duration, so I don’t invest too much energy in new people who won’t be here for more than a year. I’ve already got enough ex-London friends who have moved out that I could visit a beautiful countryside location every other week!

I agree with this - the implicit criticism.

I also try to suss out who are the long term ones too , usually if they have bought a family size property rather than renting a flat is a good sign. Same as you, I could visit loads of towns around the U.K. and some further flung to see friends I have "lost" along the way.

Yes, I feel that too. It also seems to me (listening to one of my colleagues in particular) that people who move out of London often have a perception of the risks and downsides of living in London that doesn’t match the reality, and so think they’re fleeing the apocalypse.

What are your favourite five restaurants and good places to go out of those 30?

The Frog by Adam Handling. Near a Michelin star but the food and experience is great if you love fine dining food and it is within your budget.

Lime Orange in Victoria. Korean restaurant. Their Bimimbap is amazing and very reasonably priced.

Brown's in Victoria. Chain restaurant but the food is good and excellent location.

Kanishka, Indian restaurant by Atul Kochhar. More pricy but stunning food. Would recommend the butter chicken, black daal and chicken tikka pie.

Le Bab. Casual Middle Eastern dishes but a good price, very tasty food and location close to Liberty's.

Regarding how to find out if people are long term londoners, I generally just ask people outright, it comes up in conversation a lot round here because so many people are moving. So I just say, oh do you think you'll stay in london for secondary school? quite a lot of people say no! But then there are people who have family nearby, who live in lovely homes, who have already moved to be closer to the 'better' secondary school in the area, who are clear that, unless something really changes, they are here for the duration. Of course some people change their minds - one of my eldest's friends is moving after her mum and I got drunk and talked about how we would never leave. I feel betrayed :) We live in an area near some very good private schools, so generally once their kids are in those schools, those people are here to stay, and even though my kids don't and won't go to private school, they've met kids that do through brownies and sports clubs and I encourage those friendships :)

@NineOClockOnASaturday

Yes, I feel that too. It also seems to me (listening to one of my colleagues in particular) that people who move out of London often have a perception of the risks and downsides of living in London that doesn’t match the reality, and so think they’re fleeing the apocalypse.

I just find that people feel they just need to be so negative about London to justify their own decision. So it can't just be 'we're moving because we wanted a bigger garden than we have at the moment', it has to be 'we're moving because the gardens in London are so small and poky and not right for kids at all'. Most of my friends have made the move out and I totally would not want to move to any of the places they have chosen to move to, but I don't slag off where they are living. I try to focus on the great things about where they live even though for me they wouldn't be a reason to move somewhere.

Yes, that’s pretty much what I’m saying. In my experience, people say that all London schools are dreadful (even though many are excellent and London offers a degree of choice unavailable in (say) a small town that has one secondary school), they think the crime rate in their area is ten times what it actually is (and shut their eyes to crime in other places) and so on.

I grew up, and still live, in London. I used to feel sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry for the kids in the villages we drove past, just hanging out at the bus stop. I wondered what on Earth they had to do.. 😂 London was and is great for teens, and early adult years.

I'm still happy in London, although it doesn't have the life it used to, even pre-Covid, but house prices are a massive driver in people moving away.

Although I am slightly disappointed that my kids won’t experience the teenage right of passage that is the provincial town nightclub. You know the one, the only nightclub in town, that you’ve got a million stories about, where you met boyfriends, broke up with boyfriends, cried in the loos, puked on the pavement outside. But I’m not moving back to a small town just so my kids can experience that. Are they even a thing anymore?

I'm a born & raised Londoner, my youth was probably similar to other kids. Hung around at the shopping centre, park. Sat trips to the cinema. We tended to go to pubs, bars & clubs local to our school area (z 2/3) as opposed to central London as my friends & I were spread across a few boroughs.

Lots of crying in the loos & puking outside

As I got a bit older 17 plus clubbing was fantastic as the music scene was amazing but I'm not sure that exists anymore.

oblada

It was the freedom from a young age that dc loved. Being 10 years old and being able to go out with their friends in London on a Saturday. Especially in the summer.
Being able to get to and from school, negotiating the tube lines and walking with the masses of commuters as they exited the station and spotting friends to walk with in the crowd.
They had a great childhood

@Yamashita40

My cousin is trying to buy a second home on the Northumberland Coast (we are from the North East) and she keeps getting pipped to the post even though her budget is high 700k. Estate agents have said the market has gone crazy with people moving up.

I just don't get it! Who wants to commute from Northumberland even a couple days a week?

At this point I really don't think many offices are going to total WFH.

And once you leave London it's really hard to come back and get on the ladder again

Depends on the person. I know someone who lives in a huge castle by a loch in Scotland and certainly before covid 19 got a flight down to London on Monday and one back on Friday night so regularly all the airline staff know him. I would not like my possessions in two separate places so live in zone 5 in London with a wood opposite, private road although people walk up and down it as not gated, golf club 2 doors down, horses go bay, detached houses. for me it is a good compromise between town and country even if we are and have been throughout just about the worst place in the UK for covid 19 !!

the countryside which is just white people, no arts, no parks, no museums, no shops and nothing to do.

There's nothing wrong with people of any colour and that includes white people

The UK is not a huge country. There are few parts of england where you are more than half an hour from a town, and most towns will have opportunities to enjoy the arts. I live in a small village but there are concerts and local dramatic productions which are enjoyed.

There are also parks, woodlands, rivers, lakes etc.

There are museums in most towns and it's perfectly acceptable that some people arent that interested in going to them regularly.

There are shops in all towns too and lots of people dont enjoy shopping as a leisure activity, and will happily buy what they need online.

There's plenty to do in the countryside it's just some of the activities are different to those you might enjoy in the city.

I do find on these threads there's a view if you move out of London, you aren't allowed back, even though many train journeys make it not that big a deal to go to.

We moved to a town that's a 25-30 min train journey to London Bridge. However before that we lived in Blackheath, and got the train to London Bridge each morning for work then hopped on the tube. That journey was usually around 15mins. As a commute, it didn't add much to our days when we were both working in London (similar walk to/from the station). For nights out in London, it didn't feel like a big deal to be this far out of London, until you missed the last train home and the difference in taxi fares really hammered home how far away we live now!

The museums, theatres, restaurants etc are still an option to us (which sadly does negatively effect the local theatres).

But yep, more house for your cash. Better school options (without having to live right on the doorstep of a school to get in).

Must say though, when you have to factor in train fares to a night our in London, not just use your normal work travel card that's a yearly family expense, it does feel a bigger deal and less desirable to go in to London for dinner, compared to staying in London after work for dinner. If people are WFH longer term, if those moved out-ers will feel it more this year than they would have done if they'd moved out in previous years then commuted back in daily.

There are a whole chunk of mainly men in our town who have lived here for years, but only this year have got to know the place they live in!

I think there's probably a big difference between moving 25 minutes away vs 1hr+. Some people i know have moved 2 hours away and think they will still come in regularly, i'm not sure they will. Although i grew up in a small town not much further than london bridge than you are, and most people hardly ever went into london. we did but that's because my dad is a Londoner who i think always regretted leaving.

I’ve lived in London all my life with stints of living abroad, but have raised my kids up in London.

Personally I’ve found London to be a fantastic place to raise kids. There has been an abundance of all kinds of free activities for all ages to partake in; a lot we never even did as we were spoilt for choice. playgrounds, museums, galleries, loads of kids events in museums etc the list is endless.

My kids spent endless summers playing in various playgrounds often with ready made playmates from the children they came into contact with there. The bonus was: not having to pre-arrange play dates: we could turn up spontaneously and rather than playing in someone’s back garden, which can be quite limited, they had all the equipment a great playground can provide and often someone new to play with.

Now as young teenagers, they can very independently hop on the bus or tube whenever they like to meet up with friends and I know that they are generally safe (not having to walk down deserted streets/roads alone). I’m not having to constantly ferry they around. The same goes for their after school activities.

Downsides to London that I can think of: the fact we are not able to buy a house and both kids have to share a bedroom and maybe the fact we don’t have a garden (I like gardening).

I hear people espouse how wonderful living in the countryside is and often wonder if I am really missing out?

My question to those living in the countryside is: what happens when your kids are teenagers, how do they get around? Are you constantly having to drive them about? If so does this make life very restrictive?

There's probably a difference between living in the countryside ie a small village vs a town outside of London. I lived in a small town commutable to London but literally no one commuted, everyone's parents just lived in the town. We did what teenagers do everywhere I guess and my parents never really drove me anywhere, we got the bus or walked or got a taxi if it was late at night. But friends who lived in the surrounding villages had a tougher time of it and to be honest spent most of their weekends at one of our houses in town!