Fed up with everyone leaving London

[Arlington45]

My partner and I are both from London, both sets of parents are in fairly near areas to us. We have no intention of leaving London.

But so many people are. My son (6) keeps having to say goodbye to school friends. Is this going to mess him up, having no sense of security with friends sticking around? I hope at some point it will settle down but at the moment it feels like a mass exodus.

I don't feel pissed off with the people leaving, I get it. But I do feel fed up. AIBU?

Genuine question for those who have moved to more rural areas- are the kids not bored when they reach their teens? I'd imagine it would be wonderful to raise little ones in the country but you'd end up just being a taxi service when they reach 12?

This is what I wonder, Pigtailsandall. We have friends who moved from our neighbourhood to a house in the middle of nowhere. There is no bus service. Their children don't have friends nearby, everything is a car ride away. How are they going to cope as teens?

@Twoblueblocks

Ah wobble not controversial at all, totally valid. I waver between z5/6 (where I am) and further out market town but the commute cost does it for me. We can walk to cinema, nando's, shops, train station etc. But it's still the suburbs, I do miss z2/3 type neighbourhoods but no way I can afford. Also I only lived there pre kids and dont feel it's where I want my kids to grow up.

I'd love to experience another city like Birmingham but reading upthread I'm worried about diversity (in every sense, of thought, openness etc). Have multiracial DC.

That said, we are likely to move in a couple years, for secondary school... so always on lookout for ideas where!

I believe Birmingham is more diverse than London. in LDN 60% ID as White UK and in Brum it was 53% in 2011. Don't let outside attitudes influence you. I am in multiracial marriage - many friends are in multi racial families. More black and asian people in my work team than white people. We have a thriving gay village and LGBT centre. People who say they wouldn't dream of leaving London because they're scared of provincials and their backwards thinking haven't met many of us.

Sorry I was comparing total white to white UK - Brum is slightly more weighted towards all white than London but it's very close.

[quote Pigtailsandall]@LoudestCat14 I feel the same. I'm not from London or uk at all, but London is my home. I've had 3 longer stretches of not living here (once for travel, once for work and once for ill-fated love) and every time I got back I felt a pang of what can only be described as affection and warmth and almost love. I would miss it too much if I moved out. Controversially, I also think London is a great place to raise kids. So much to do, see and experience, fantastic playgrounds and woodlands only a short tube ride away.

Genuine question for those who have moved to more rural areas- are the kids not bored when they reach their teens? I'd imagine it would be wonderful to raise little ones in the country but you'd end up just being a taxi service when they reach 12?[/quote]
I can't talk about villages but I grew up in a town with not much going on - I walked everywhere and maintained a very healthy weight for most of my adolescence. We got the train to the next town to go to the cinema, we hung out at each other's houses or in the local park, or shuffled around the high street. There were leisure centres, sports clubs, after school activities and the ilk - even the most rural places have access to team sports and activities for youngins. It wasn't too boring, and towns are a lot better than they used to be for stuff to do.

that's definitely been my experience. left london twenty years ago and came back just before covid. all of my friends from school and uni have now left....and left a while back i.e. when they had kids. it's really a bit sad as both DH and I have family here so it makes sense to stay in London but I almost feel embarrassed that I barely have any friends left in the city - just one from before we left. I do feel lonely and am not quite sure how we will rebuild our circle of friends for while I am still friends with the same people as before, they are now scattered across the world and other parts of the UK.

But clearly this keeps on happening - went to two easter egg hunts with the little ones over the weekend. One group -5 kids and the other had six kids....all bar one are leaving the area - either moving abroad, leaving london or moving to a different part of London. It seems a shame for the kids (and the adults) but then again whats the point of staying if everyone leaves. We're also moving areas within London so will need to rebuild our network yet again. Am also fed up but what can you do

Beagle - if you’re visiting and want to go out for dinner, it might be nice to get up high and get a view over the city at sunset. So, Sushi Samba (Farringdon way) is amazing for this if you like a kind of Japanese / Peruvian fusion menu. Fantastic cocktails / mocktails too. There’s also another restaurant up there with a more British menu (I think it’s the Duck and something.., can’t remember). Otherwise, there’s a few restaurants up the Shard inc. afternoon tea if you’re there in the day? Or wander down the South Bank (Globe Theatre, Tate Modern, London Eye, London Aquarium, Royal Festival Hall various boat trips, walk over the Millenium footbridge to St Paul’s, or just hang out and people watch etc) before ending up in the Oxo Tower for dinner? Of the Park Lane Hilton has two restaurants with panoramic views too. Just a few post-lockdown suggestions...

@quest1on

Beagle - if you’re visiting and want to go out for dinner, it might be nice to get up high and get a view over the city at sunset. So, Sushi Samba (Farringdon way) is amazing for this if you like a kind of Japanese / Peruvian fusion menu. Fantastic cocktails / mocktails too. There’s also another restaurant up there with a more British menu (I think it’s the Duck and something.., can’t remember). Otherwise, there’s a few restaurants up the Shard inc. afternoon tea if you’re there in the day? Or wander down the South Bank (Globe Theatre, Tate Modern, London Eye, London Aquarium, Royal Festival Hall various boat trips, walk over the Millenium footbridge to St Paul’s, or just hang out and people watch etc) before ending up in the Oxo Tower for dinner? Of the Park Lane Hilton has two restaurants with panoramic views too. Just a few post-lockdown suggestions...

Thank you, I officially promise to give it a proper punt next time I am able to.

We have just moved slightly closer to the centre of London to Z2/3 for all those selling up someone must be buying? I do hear that London flats aren't selling well but I imagine that might change when those who have moved out decide to buy a pied a terre?

We considered moving further out but we didn't fancy the upheaval of moving our DC's school, my job (it is pretty local and convenient) and the commuting costs were eye watering (DH is likely to go back 3 days a week, his commute will be under half an hour door to door from new house).

Plus, I am born and bred here. My parents are 10/15 mins away. DH's family have moved out to Suffolk now but the easiest way to get to them is via London (DH didn't want to follow them and preferred Kent or Surrey) - there was no obvious place for us to go.

I also have friends here - from school and just "growing up" here, children of my parents' friends and from clubs. The majority have stuck it out or moved to Z4/5/6 which isn't that hard for me to get to on public transport or £15 in an Uber.

My DSIS moved out to a Kent village a few years back and likes it there but is finding that as her DC get older she is becoming a taxi service, nothing is available nearby. We bought houses at a similar time for a similar price and mine has just sold for a lot more than hers is worth - she is now priced out of London and although she doesn't want to come back just yet (her DC are at secondary school) she does miss the social side of being in a city and her and her DH have talked about returning when DC are at university/work.
She often stays with me when she wants to catch up with friends as the train home takes 1.5hrs and there isn't always a taxi at the station to take her the 2 miles (down country lanes) home.
On the same token, she has a lot more space than me and so on sunny days I often head to her house so my DC can play in her huge garden - it is about an hour drive.

I don't think there is a "right" answer - there are pluses and minuses to each lifestyle.

@Fleurchamp do you find that you keep on having to make new friends as people leave? We have family here and have moved back after 20 years. I would like DC so know their family etc. But already we are seeing lots of people moving .... is this just the norm? I only lived in london as a teen till I finished uni - so not had much experience of it otherwise

I’ve put my London flat on the market (held onto it ages and rented it when the market was too slow to sell easily) Put it on Thursday, 3rd viewing today which considering it’s been the Easter weekend seems ok @Fleurchamp

@threelittlebears87 in London most our friends are from the continent (I grew up abroad in earlier childhood too) or elsewhere. I anticipate they aren’t here forever

It seems like most of the Derbyshire village I live in has lived in London at some point - most of us are Northerners who moved to London after university to build a career, then were able to move out of London into regional offices with occasional travel to London.

We moved just before I gave birth, I'm so glad we did. Not that we wouldn't have enjoyed living in London, but it's so fab to have clean air, a close community, reasonably-priced childcare, and access to good schools (I know there are good schools in London but in every borough). And (pre-covid, anyway) we get our London fix by spending a few days a month there for work and then socialising in the evenings. It's definitely a win-win.

I haven't found that per se - out of my nct group of 7 only 3 of us remain in London "proper" but most of us stay in touch and meet up (via Zoom recently, obviously) as they are still only about an hour away. One went to Yorkshire but we probably speak the most and they usually come to stay every year for a long weekend (we also house swap so they can visit other friends and we get a holiday).

School - my DC are only young and I would say over the past 3 years there have been maybe one or two children leave and more join each year which is quite similar to my own experience, there hasn't been an exodus this year. In my DS's class (of 20) two children have left (one expats going home and one moving out of London) and one has joined (just moving schools because of poor remote learning at their old one). There are a lot of expats and those born out of London families at school - I am a definite minority having been born here (I live less than a mile from the hospital I was born in ).

I guess because I have always lived here I have a core group of friends that haven't changed - some since I was born - and I suppose I have gained and lost some friends along the way. I have reconnected with a few during the lockdowns as I have been using zoom/ FaceTime more - particularly those who moved abroad.

Generally, I find a lot of friends still visit London anyway and so we catch up when they are in town.

I think I am used to the transient nature of London and make the effort to keep in touch with people when they move out.

I must admit I do feel a bit strange when people say they are leaving London, almost like I should be going too - I get the same feeling with jobs, when someone leaves I feel unsettled.

@Oilpyi that's good to hear, I hope you manage to sell soon.
I must admit I panic when I hear that "everyone" is moving out of London but I just don't think that is the case, people have always moved in and out.

I don't recognise the picture of everyone moving out. I was born and brought up in London and now live in a very leafy zone 2/3 suburb. I only know of one family who's upped sticks and moved over the pandemic.

I have noticed that there is an awful lot more money around though - hardly anyone in my older two kids classes went on to private schools, maybe one a year. My youngest is in year 6 and probably around 7 in a class of 28 are going. Very different demographic, you have to have much much more money to buy here now.

I recognise the changes, too. Moving out of London isn’t a new thing - out of all my NCT friends and contacts from 20 years ago, only two are still in London - but the people buying houses nearby now are of a different ilk. Whereas people of our age bought the houses, and did bits of renovation as and when we could afford it, current buyers can (it seems) afford not only to buy the house but also to have three quarters of it demolished and rebuilt to their specifications before they move in. It is a different, more moneyed demographic.

@tattycoram to be honest those those I know of moving are in the demographic that they are a bit horrified by London state schools, high mixes of deprivation and immigration movement. They see private school fees as essential here, or are concerned the few grammars are so super selective. Their moves in primary are to avoid the ‘necessity’ of private school fees and find a state education that fits their type better. Less movement and less extremes of deprivation. English majority language definitely.

Of those staying I see more going private, or doing some big commutes to high school on London borders.

Yes @NineOClockOnASaturday it amazes me. The house sells and is immediately gutted and extended. One on my road was bought by a young family 18 months ago now and has only just got planning permission for a super ambitious (and beautiful) extension. Perhaps they've been living with family but it boggles my mind

@Oilpyi

I’ve put my London flat on the market (held onto it ages and rented it when the market was too slow to sell easily) Put it on Thursday, 3rd viewing today which considering it’s been the Easter weekend seems ok *@Fleurchamp*

Keep us updated on how it goes. Mine is going on in July.

@allOilpyi i think you're spot on that demographic and secondary schooling observation. it is exactly what we're debating now. i've spend countless hours looking at the dept of education tables. There are only a handful of decent London comps, but the family house prices within those catchments are so high that you'd rather spend that premium on London private schooling (which also has increasing compeitition and skyrocketing fees for less value add relatively)... or sod the pressure cooker and go to a home county where the 'bog average' comp or a stab at a less superselective grammar does the job.

Tattycoram - it boggles my mind too! There also seems to be an assumption now (and I see it on MN too) that the first thing one does on buying a house is to throw the kitchen and bathroom in a skip, because even if they’re good quality and only six months old, one couldn’t possibly use a kitchen or bathroom that hadn’t been expensively built to one’s own specification. So it all goes to landfill ...

People used to live in London for work. Now it’s easier to work remotely so there’s no reason to stay in London any more.

@MimiPigeon

People used to live in London for work. Now it’s easier to work remotely so there’s no reason to stay in London any more.

I don't think that is quite true. Yes, being close to work and job opportunities is a draw but other things keep people there too or everyone would move out when retired. I actually think being retired in London must be great - free travel, hundreds of free museums, loads of volunteering opportunities, specialist hospitals on the doorstep (just in case), train lines across the country etc. My MIL lives in a Suffolk town which is idyllic in many ways but she doesn't drive and to get anywhere is difficult - even to get her Covid jab was a two mile walk to the out of town health centre. Streets aren't lit at night and so going to her choir requires a taxi, when she stays with us she does all sorts on public transport and has a whale of a time ( pre Covid!).

Apparently a million people have left London in the last year, it's the biggest population drop since the second world war.

I think there will be a big boomerang effect next year though, everyone I know who works in offices is being told 3 days in will be the new norm, and that starts to get rather pricey and time consuming if you've moved far away. And I agree with the PP who said those who come in more will be favoured for promotions etc.

[quote Twoblueblocks]@allOilpyi i think you're spot on that demographic and secondary schooling observation. it is exactly what we're debating now. i've spend countless hours looking at the dept of education tables. There are only a handful of decent London comps, but the family house prices within those catchments are so high that you'd rather spend that premium on London private schooling (which also has increasing compeitition and skyrocketing fees for less value add relatively)... or sod the pressure cooker and go to a home county where the 'bog average' comp or a stab at a less superselective grammar does the job.[/quote]
There are more than a handful of decent secondaries in London! Every secondary in our borough is either good or outstanding. The issue isn't the education but the geography – there are a lot of brilliant, nurturing, well performing secondaries but they're in areas that are more ethnically and culturally diverse and that's why parents don't want to send their kids there. They just don't want to admit it out loud.