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Original poster

Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

999 replies

Flaxmeadow · 02/04/2021 22:53

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Emeraldshamrock · 03/04/2021 00:52

@Euridicefortuna You must be in shock knowing the lady personally. Flowers
I can't imagine the pain her family are in.
*
It is the 2nd case reported in Birmingham this year Kiera Ladlow family rescue dog killed her ate her arm. 😢

diwrnachoflleyn · 03/04/2021 00:54

Indeed, Emerald, so shocking for Euridice Flowers

novaissuper · 03/04/2021 00:56

@diwrnachoflleyn

You sound hysterical. I have a four week old baby and a staffie cross. Not an issue. My dog is no more likely to bite than any other well natured and balanced dog.

I can't believe this thread has turned into an anti bill breed thread already when we do not even know the breed of the dogs that attacked....

diwrnachoflleyn · 03/04/2021 00:58

Hysterical, what a sneery misogynistic term Hmm. I think it's nuts to have that type of dog around a newborn, but of course, your dog would never a hurt a fly, they never do. Hmm

I can't believe this thread is about the bloody dogs more than this poor woman who's lost her life in such a horrific way due to them.

Original poster
Flaxmeadow · 03/04/2021 00:59

Sorry Euridice Flowers

OP posts:
wingsnthat · 03/04/2021 01:07

@Euridicefortuna I’m so sorry for your loss. I am fuming on your behalf that the dogs were known to be problematic yet were able to escalate to killing your neighbour! Wtf, her death could have been avoided. I hope the useless owner is severely punished.

SmokedDuck · 03/04/2021 01:08

If you want to ban breeds that bite or attack, you will have a much longer list than pit bull type dogs. German Shepherds will be on there for one. There was a city in Italy that tried that approach, using data to ban breeds rather than just reactionary bs, they gave up I believe when the list grew to dozens of breeds.

safariboot · 03/04/2021 01:14

Let's know the full circumstances before jumping to any proposed actions. It may be that laws have already been broken - in which case more laws won't help. Or it may be that this could not reasonably have been prevented, unless you want to ban dogs and kill every dog in Britain.

HeddaGarbled · 03/04/2021 01:15

All this ‘reactive law is bad law’ and ‘you’re more likely to be killed by a ladder etc’ reminds me of the reaction of gun-owners to law changes after Hungerford, and the pro-gun lobby in the US. Denial of real risk and whataboutery deflection.

Emeraldshamrock · 03/04/2021 01:15

I think it's nuts to have that type of dog around a newborn, but of course, your dog would never a hurt a fly, they never do
I have to agree. Obviously you need to be vigilant with all dogs and DC the damage a staffie cross would do over say a king charles would be fatal to most DC.

novaissuper · 03/04/2021 01:16

I think it's nuts to have that type of dog around a newborn, but of course, your dog would never a hurt a fly, they never do.

You are being sneery regarding my dog based on something so irrelevant like her breed.

My dog and newborn are always supervised when together but this is not because she's a staffie but because she's a dog and all dogs can be unpredictable regardless of their breed. I don't view dogs through rose tinted classes as I Appreciate they are all capable of biting but my dog is no more or less likely to attack because of her breed. Aggression towards people is not a breed specific trait.

Did you know that the kennel club only recommends two breeds of dog for families with young children, and that one of those dog breeds is the Staffordshire Bill Terrier? It's a fact. Google it if you don't believe me.

Sorry if you think I'm sneering at you, but I am just sick of this judgement around certain breeds of dogs. It's nonsensical. Canine behavioural professionals and animal welfare organisations all take the same line on this. I think they understand more about dogs than MN.

Ploughingthrough · 03/04/2021 01:17

Horrendous. I have complicated feelings about dogs, and domesticated pets in general. Whatever the ins and outs of this story, that poor poor lady.

ShrikeAttack · 03/04/2021 01:18

@diwrnachoflleyn my husband's half brother in Holland has two Dogue de Bordeaux. I won't have them anywhere near my children. I don't care how 'nice' they are. I see that those dogs are poorly socialised and massively muscular.

No thanks.

Why even have a dog like that? They were bred for a very specific reason. If you don't need them for that. Don't have them.

novaissuper · 03/04/2021 01:19

@Emeraldshamrock

I think it's nuts to have that type of dog around a newborn, but of course, your dog would never a hurt a fly, they never do I have to agree. Obviously you need to be vigilant with all dogs and DC the damage a staffie cross would do over say a king charles would be fatal to most DC.
Oh for goodness sake. I'm pretty sure an aggressive chihuahua could fatally injure a small child if left unsupervised...
Nononoandno · 03/04/2021 01:22

People are the problem, I have studied dog psychology at length. All dogs are derived from wolves, treat dog like babies and problems arise... dogs need to know where they are in the wolf pact ranking of the family. For example if You feed a dog before you and let it sleep the same level as you on a bed then the dog thinks it’s higher up the pact and becomes more dominant and confident, dogs that have appeared perfectly trust worthy for years can snap suddenly and turn on someone, I’ve seen this first hand with a much loved family pet that turned suddenly on a friend that was innocently fussing and stoking it in front of me when I was younger ....maybe a scent triggered him to this day I’m not sure but he made a mess of her face. Bigger dogs have bigger teeth and do more damage it doesn’t necessarily make them more aggressive. Never leave any dog alone with young children! Small babies to dogs are no different to rabbits wolves and can cause them to act what is irrational to us humans

ContentsMayBeHot · 03/04/2021 01:28

Not only should licensing be re-introduced, but they should have to be accompanied by insurance and owners should be strictly liable for any bites.

As the OP notes, many victims are left with life-changing injuries and the kicker is that they often have no legal recourse (so cannot be compensated for their injuries or any treatment). You generally need to be able to prove that the owner knew the dog had a propensity to attack, meaning that dogs and their owners usually get one 'free' attack. It's completely unacceptable.

novaissuper · 03/04/2021 01:35

'The Staffie is the breed that is recommended for a family with young children by many of the welfare and re-homing organisations. These organisations and rescue centres believe it is probably one of the best family dogs of all the dog breeds. ... The Kennel Club describes the breed's suitability to young children.'

www.doglistener.co.uk/choosing/staffie.shtml

But I'm still crazy to have a staffie and a baby in the same house? Because I am sure you all know so much more about dogs than the Kennel Club and other canine professionals so it doesn't really matter what they think....
🙄🙄🙄

Emeraldshamrock · 03/04/2021 01:37

@ContentsMayBeHot I think insurance is the good option but If you can't afford it you can't have a dog and many dogs are loyal companions and very meaningful to their owners who couldn't afford insurance.
It's like everything in life a few irresponsible dicks ruin it for everyone.

Emeraldshamrock · 03/04/2021 01:38

The Staffie is the breed that is recommended for a family with young children by many of the welfare and re-homing organisations.
That's unusual most rescue centres won't re-home animals with DC under 12 afaik hence the increasing prices for family pets.

PyongyangKipperbang · 03/04/2021 01:45

The "owner" (read - brutaliser) should be charged with manslaughter.

I think the issues with certain types of dog is that they are easier to train so Staffies for example can be trained very well to be good family/child friendly dogs. But by the same token will be more easily traind to brutal attack type behaviour by the kind of arsehole who values that, which is why they may have that reputation.

I say all of the above as someone who is dog phobic for good personal reasons.

CausingChaos2 · 03/04/2021 01:45

Such a terrible thing to happen. I can’t imagine what that poor woman went through, and how her family can ever come to terms with her life ending like this.

novaissuper · 03/04/2021 01:46

@Emeraldshamrock

The Staffie is the breed that is recommended for a family with young children by many of the welfare and re-homing organisations. That's unusual most rescue centres won't re-home animals with DC under 12 afaik hence the increasing prices for family pets.
Dogs trust rehome to families with children. The rescue I got my dog from have a cut off point of three years old. Every dog should be assessed on an individual basis when considering their suitability to live with children. Dogs and children should always be supervised.
ContentsMayBeHot · 03/04/2021 01:53

I think insurance is the good option but If you can't afford it you can't have a dog and many dogs are loyal companions and very meaningful to their owners who couldn't afford insurance.
Tough luck in my opinion. Not being able to own a dog might be a hardship for some, but nothing compared to the suffering of someone who has been mauled. I'd rather ensure that victims are compensated, so that they can receive whatever treatment they need, than ensure that dog ownership is cheap and accessible.

NiceTwin · 03/04/2021 02:13

What an absolutely terrifying death that woman must have had. Her family must be devastated at not only the sudden loss but also the shocking way she died.

I hope the owner is suitably hauled over the coals and that the courts don't go soft on him.

Pugdogmom · 03/04/2021 02:21

@Nononoandno
If you have studied dog psychology, you should know that pack theory was debunked years back.
ajcs.org.uk/uncategorized/the-outdated-methodology-of-pack-theory-and-its-influence-on-modern-dog-training/
I rescue dogs, some with behavioural issues, and assess them and retrain them, many are scared and fearful because of previous trauma. I take on the unwanted unattainable dogs. Not just pugs as my username suggests. I have only ever had one dog that I have always had to keep away from small dogs, because she was set on by a pack and horrifically abused.
Would I ever leave a dog with a child? No, because it is responsible dog ownership not to do so. Children squeal, and dogs don't understand why.
However I agree there needs to be FAR more checks done before someone is allowed to have a dog. We went through so much vetting before we were allowed to have some of our dogs. Unfortunately this is never done at puppy stages, because irresponsible breeders just want to make money. They could not care less who they sell to, especially via Gumtree etc . There should be mandatory training for puppies and owners.
If I am exercising a new rescue, I always have them on a lead, wear a high viz stating to keep your dog away, and often muzzled if I am doubtful, and yet irresponsible dog owners, let theirs run up, while my new rescue can be snarling.
Oh yeah, my dogs often sleep on my bed, and they have never thought that they were " higher up the pack".🙄. I have had dogs for 50 years plus.