Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

@lockeddownandcrazy

Advertising for stupid cross breeds called idiotic names - Cockerpoos and Labradoodles started the trend but now you get Yorkidoodles and all sorts of totally ridiculous crosses. These are then advertised for silly money - this needs to stop.

Breeding an apricot poodle with anything always strikes me as a bit silly. But the aggressive tendencies of those doesn’t tend to make the news.

These threads always end in staffy bashing. You barely see staffys now they are not the popular ‘ard man breeds anymore.

They are mostly great gentle loved pets.

It’s not the breed it’s the owners.

We need to revise the dangerous dog act, it’s ineffective. We need to view all dogs as dangerous, we need to have more control on breeders as well as owners.
There’s a lot of fashions coming over from the states e.g ear cropping and toad dogs. It’s fucking barbaric for the dogs and all needs clamping down on.

I have to yet meet a bully breed that have this kind of grip.

Yesterday someone wasnt as fortunate

They are usually very gentle in giving back stuff/toys especially wth children.

It's been reported in the press today that those dogs, quote, "went for her throat like a dog would with a toy"

Why in earth would anyone take the risk of having a "bully dog" in a family home, never mind off leash in public

@novaissuper

'The Staffie is the breed that is recommended for a family with young children by many of the welfare and re-homing organisations. These organisations and rescue centres believe it is probably one of the best family dogs of all the dog breeds. ... The Kennel Club describes the breed's suitability to young children.'

www.doglistener.co.uk/choosing/staffie.shtml

But I'm still crazy to have a staffie and a baby in the same house? Because I am sure you all know so much more about dogs than the Kennel Club and other canine professionals so it doesn't really matter what they think....
🙄🙄🙄

Even taking that at face value - and I think the KC have firmly stepped away from that statement now - the KC are talking about responsibly bred SBTs there, not irresponsibly bred ones crossed with who knows what, so I don't think your argument holds for yours. I very much hope your faith in your dog is not misplaced though, so am not knocking you - just your argument.

To be honest, if SBTs were the last dogs on earth I'd never have another dog, they just don't appeal to me at all - BUT the SBT is in no way the breed at issue we are talking about here. We are talking about much larger bull breeds, crossed with who knows what, poorly kept and untrained. I do agree that the owners are largely the issue, but I still don't want to see dogs that are capable of this on any street near me. Again, it is not the fact that I assume they will bite me or my dogs - it's the fact that I know no-one around will have any hope of stopping them if they do.

Mind you, I don't much want to meet the Rottweiler I met in the week again - clearly an adolescent male, with ideas above his station, and a weedy teenage owner who no doubt thought he looked hard. He actually looked ridiculous, as he plainly had no control over his dog, and couldn't hold him. I don't want to meet him again when the dog has a few more months maturity under its belt.

Funnily enough, I'd met another bloke with a Rottweiler earlier on that walk, no issues at all there - a beautiful breed in the right hands, but a problem waiting to happen in others.

To be honest, I think the Police also need to start taking dog on dog attacks seriously, which at the moment they do not at all unless a person is already bitten. Again, I don't assume a dog that will attack another dog will attack a human, but it all points to lack of control and contributes to general adrenaline levels, with the potential to escalate. Dogs are dogs, there will always be odd spats, but people should not be allowed to walk away with no consequences when their dog seriously injures another.

Even taking that at face value - and I think the KC have firmly stepped away from that statement now

Not according to their website, they haven't.

'Despite its early function, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier is known as a wonderful family pet.'

It's also described as ""Highly intelligent and affectionate especially with children"

www.thekennelclub.org.uk/search/breeds-a-to-z/breeds/terrier/staffordshire-bull-terrier/

The PDSA also agree with the Kennel Club regarding staffies:

"Staffies are widely known to be 'nanny dogs' because of their love of children. Generally speaking, Staffies tend to be very tolerant and sweet-natured towards children."

"Staffies are wonderfully loving pets and most owners report just how cuddly and sweet-natured their Staffie is."

"Staffies are very people-orientated dogs who are likely to want to say hello to everyone out and about! They have lots of energy and can be boisterous well into their adult years so owners need to be prepared for this especially due to their solid build. In the right household, they can make the perfect family pets."

www.pdsa.org.uk/taking-care-of-your-pet/looking-after-your-pet/puppies-dogs/medium-dogs/staffordshire-bull-terrier

Let's say all bully breeds were to be banned. Do you think there would be fewer dog attacks in the future? People would either keep them illegally, or just get another intimidating looking breed instead and be equally irresponsible, wouldn't they?

I can see Shiba Inus being the next dog taken up by knobheads as a status symbol.

@Ridgere

Let's say all bully breeds were to be banned. Do you think there would be fewer dog attacks in the future? People would either keep them illegally, or just get another intimidating looking breed instead and be equally irresponsible, wouldn't they?

Stop using logic

Let's say all bully breeds were to be banned. Do you think there would be fewer dog attacks in the future

There would be fewer hospitalizations, life changing injuries and deaths
Dogs with wide jaws and large powerful neck muscles are obviously more likely to be able inflict more damage on someone, especially a child

People would either keep them illegally, or just get another intimidating looking breed instead and be equally irresponsible, wouldn't they?

Then the law would have to be more strictly enforced and people encouraged to report illegal dog ownership

Do we say "oh well some people don't wear seatbelts or drink drive, so why bother with seatbelt laws and drink driving laws"

@Flaxmeadow

A Staffordshire Bull Terrier is NOT a pitbull

Many Staffies have pit bull in them. Staffies were also bred to fight in pits

WRONG! If a staffie has 'pitbull in it' it isnt a bloody staffie

It's been reported in the press today that those dogs, quote, "went for her throat like a dog would with a toy"

The actual quote had the word Apparently in front of it indicating the person telling the story to the papers was not there and was told it by someone else.

The lady has obviously suffered an horrific attack. The police press releases make it clear it was a sustained attack and she suffered multiple injuries so regardless of whether that quote is true or not these dogs were clearly dangerous and out of control.

Reading between the lines I suspect these are kept as guard dogs and kept outside in kennels and wouldn't be surprised if there is a history of them being difficult. The owner is 100% at fault here and I hope although I doubt that he will receive a harsh penalty.

Sadly in most cases the dogs are euthanised and there are no other consequences for the human. Whilst this is probably the best outcome here for the dogs - being returned to their owner / spending long time in kennels awaiting for that rare rescuer who could deal with the rehab of them - I can't help but feel sad for them. Different owners. Different lives. Different outcome.

However even if these dogs were banned. This owner could have caused this outcome with a GSD or a Rottie or an Akita or any other large breed dog.

WRONG! If a staffie has 'pitbull in it' it isnt a bloody staffie

So what is a staffie with both pit bull and staffie heritage called? And vice versa. Is it called a staffie or a pitbull? Or has yet another spurious name been added to the list of dog breeds to make it seem unrelated?

@Ridgere

Let's say all bully breeds were to be banned. Do you think there would be fewer dog attacks in the future? People would either keep them illegally, or just get another intimidating looking breed instead and be equally irresponsible, wouldn't they?

Oh I agree entirely with that. As various people have said, pit bulls, Tosas, Dogos and Fila Brasileiro already are banned in the UK. Doesn't stop there being plenty of them here anyway, and have other timebombs like the Ovcharka waiting in the wings to take their place with idiots.

We need to enforce the legislation we already have, and we need to put serious consequences in place for those who don't adhere to it. It won't happen though, there's not the bandwidth within the relevant authorities.

@Flaxmeadow

WRONG! If a staffie has 'pitbull in it' it isnt a bloody staffie

So what is a staffie with both pit bull and staffie heritage called? And vice versa. Is it called a staffie or a pitbull? Or has yet another spurious name been added to the list of dog breeds to make it seem unrelated?

How about a mix breed. If I bred a collie and a staffie would it still be a staffie? No.

There would be fewer hospitalizations, life changing injuries and deaths
Dogs with wide jaws and large powerful neck muscles are obviously more likely to be able inflict more damage on someone, especially a child

I don't really see your logic. There are many many dogs capable of EASILY injuring or killing a person that are not bully breeds. The people who currently have staffies and don't train them would just move onto one of those other breeds. Dodgy estates would be full of rotties and german shepherds instead of staffies. Injuries and deaths would remain the same.

However even if these dogs were banned. This owner could have caused this outcome with a GSD or a Rottie or an Akita or any other large breed dog

Would you agree that german shepherds, pit bulls, rottweilers and akitas are capable of inflicting more life changing injuries and deaths than a small dog, with less powerful jaws and neck muscles

Is it legal to have pit bulls?

I don't really see your logic. There are many many dogs capable of EASILY injuring or killing a person that are not bully breeds. The people who currently have staffies and don't train them would just move onto one of those other breeds. Dodgy estates would be full of rotties and german shepherds instead of staffies. Injuries and deaths would remain the same

So you're saying that if dogs with powerful jaws and neck muscles, enough to maim or kill, were banned then nothing would change?

I don't see that logic

This has sickened me to the core and I can’t stop thinking and out the poor woman. It’s horrific

People don't seem to understand the difference between a nip/single bite and a Pit bull attack. Pit bulls often bite off and swallow body parts and go in for the kill. They have been bred to be silent when attacking and they keep attacking, even wagging their tails, because as far as they are concerned they are being a 'good dog'.

I live in the U.S where Pit bulls are legal, although many land lords, dog parks ban them. I've heard some insurance companies refuse home owner's insurance or raise the premiums if you own a pit bull. It seems like every week a pit bull is in the news for killing or disfiguring someone.

All dog owners should't be punished because some are irresponsible. It's just like the gun debate here. As a gun owner I should't be punished because criminals and the irresponsible miss use guns. I own guns and they are safer than a pit bull because they don't jump the fence and pull their own trigger. There are at least 400 million guns in the U.S.

@Flaxmeadow

However even if these dogs were banned. This owner could have caused this outcome with a GSD or a Rottie or an Akita or any other large breed dog

Would you agree that german shepherds, pit bulls, rottweilers and akitas are capable of inflicting more life changing injuries and deaths than a small dog, with less powerful jaws and neck muscles

Of course large dogs can inflict MORE damage, but that doesn't mean they're more likely to inflict damage in the first place.

What's would your plan be going forward if you believe all large breeds are dangerous - ban them all? What size would a dog have to be to be considered dangerous? Labradors are pretty big. What about greyhounds? Or working dogs like German Shepherds or Dobermans? What about water rescue dogs like St Bernards or Newfoundlands?

Should they all be banned because they're big breeds?

@randomer

Is it legal to have pit bulls?

Yes and no. It's illegal to sell or breed a pitbull or pitbull-type dog.

However, you can own them in the UK but they're subject to certain restrictions - they have to be leashed and muzzled at all times in public, and they have to have their temperaments assessed by professionals too. They also have to be chipped and tagged (though that's the same for all dogs regardless of breed).

List of fatal dog attacks in the United Kingdom

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

Have a look at the breeds that have killed the most people in the UK - some have killed small babies and others adults. The vast majority of the attacks where someone has ended up dying is BULL TYPE BREEDS.....

How about a mix breed.

So is "mix breed" catered for in the law in dogs? What is the law on this "mixed breed" that you say is the name of a breed