Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

I think it's very telling that the same posters ranting about putbulls, resorting to insults and posting in an out of control manner are the same ones saying it's fine to own dangerous dogs, they're soft as and wouldn't hurt a fly and we are in control of them. Reassurig, not.

@NRCS

I think it's very telling that the same posters ranting about putbulls, resorting to insults and posting in an out of control manner are the same ones saying it's fine to own dangerous dogs, they're soft as and wouldn't hurt a fly and we are in control of them. Reassurig, not.

Hang on a minute so people can insult me but I’m not allowed to do it back?

again please seek help

But many of these will be rescue animals, whose carbon footprint would exist whether adopted or not (assuming you wouldn't want to see healthy animals euthanised because they were unwanted). Dog's these days are bred for profit hence puppy farms and higher prices. My cousin runs a rescue every adult dog is neutered before rehoming.
The 1000's of tiny dogs are not from rescue.
People are giving up full time employment to start dog breeding it is big business.

The laws need to be changed so the police have more authority to deal with dogs.
My dog (on a lead) was attacked by a staffie walked off lead (which is illegal on a public road). The owner said she doesn't like other dogs - so why not have her on a lead? She ran over and had her jaws around his stomach area and wouldn't let go. My DH was kicking the staffy but she was immovable. My dog was saved by a neigbour running out of the house and pouring water over the dog's head. My dog spent 2 days in hospital having scans and xrays as they were worried he had sustained organ damage.

The police went round, came back to us, said there was no one in and they didn't have the time to come back and anyway there was little they could do.
The vet bill was over £2k.
The dog is still walked off lead down our road. I pick my dog up if we happen to be walking at the same time.

Apologies to @LizBennet I misread your post and thought you were stereotyping me but I was wrong again sorry

@Dugee here’s a Labrador attack for you, not fatal admittedly but pretty horrific. I have not searched for fatal but I’m sure there will some...
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-takes-down-mirrors-home-20333269.amp

@Quaversplease

The laws need to be changed so the police have more authority to deal with dogs. My dog (on a lead) was attacked by a staffie walked off lead (which is illegal on a public road). The owner said she doesn't like other dogs - so why not have her on a lead? She ran over and had her jaws around his stomach area and wouldn't let go. My DH was kicking the staffy but she was immovable. My dog was saved by a neigbour running out of the house and pouring water over the dog's head. My dog spent 2 days in hospital having scans and xrays as they were worried he had sustained organ damage. The police went round, came back to us, said there was no one in and they didn't have the time to come back and anyway there was little they could do. The vet bill was over £2k. The dog is still walked off lead down our road. I pick my dog up if we happen to be walking at the same time.

This infuriates me aswell I think any dog that doesn’t like other dogs should have a muzzle and a lead it’s that simple it would prevent so many injuries to other dogs and people

It’d be interesting to look at the statistics of dog attacks and people on people attacks and compare. I reckon the latter would be very over represented.

I saw a social media post the other day about a man repeatedly attacking his fifteen week puppy to ‘toughen it up’. The trauma for that dog is horrendous. When a puppy leaves it’s mother it mourns dreadfully and then transfers its affections to its new owner. To be beaten at such a stage will completely traumatise and wreck a dog. That’s the owners we need to concentrate on, the people who brutalise what could be sensitive loving dogs. Give them a colossal punishment that’s more akin to what they’d get for abusing a child and they might think twice.

@Arbadacarba

I think training classes should be mandatory for all new dog owners, for socialisation purposes as well as training.

There are no such things as bad dogs, only bad owners. Some breeds are more dangerous than others because of their size and strength, but they're not inherently bad.

Our little fella lived 14 years and never once bit anyone, even when having something painful done such as removing thorns from his pads. I miss him every single day.

There are no such things as bad dogs, only bad owners. Some breeds are more dangerous than others because of their size and strength, but they're not inherently bad.

This untrue. Sorry. Yes, socialisation and poor owner behaviour influences dog behaviour hugely but there is also a lot of research to say that genetics and epigenetics play a part in dog aggression and fear (which is linked to aggression in many cases). So to say it is entirely environmental is dangerous and untrue.

@Handsoffstrikesagain

lbxxx no problem and yes I really hope no one is ever unfortunate enough to find themselves in that situation.

There needs to be a complete overhaul of the dog ownership process, although how it would be regulated I have no idea. Certain breeds are highly, highly intelligent animals and were traditionally bred for various purposes. A Belgian Malinois for instance, need very firm ownership and intensive training. They are wonderful animals but 99% of normal households could not give this particular breed the attention, discipline and leadership they require, and they would not have the skill set to train a dog like this. It is why they are used by the military and spend a lot of time being trained (it’s a full time job). Dogs like that should not be available to the public imo.

My partner looked into having one of these dogs but after researching how much attention and walking and stimulation they need it just wasn’t suitable for our lifestyles and in turn could of ended up with us or someone else injured

@LBXXX

Apologies to *@LizBennet* I misread your post and thought you were stereotyping me but I was wrong again sorry

Accepted. Apologies for my reply to you too.

My thoughts are with the family of the woman who died in these dreadful circumstances......
THE OWNERS are to blame for the way this has happened they are ultimately responsible for the attack , they must ensure the safety of their garden and is it fit for purpose to protect the dogs and stop them from getting out ...to also protect the public
A recent issue of the poor Seal that was attacked in London and dies due to an owner letting their dog off the lead !!! REALLY ???
I think there should be an enforceable law that has stronger merit that will be enacted as mandatory ,,such as a prison sentence , such as a heavy fine , such as banning them from keeping dogs ,,, but this is not greatly enforced and only when it is in extreme circumstances.. NON OF THIS WELL ITS A DOG AND THEY DO BEHAVE LIKE THIS SOME TIMES !!! I have a dog and would not dream of letting him of the lead at any time when out and about ,because I know him I know that he can be a wee bit temperamental ( not with people ) but with other dogs and it would really upset me if he attacked another dog (vets fees! )or another human because you never know do you ? and he is a small dog but capable of causing damage because he is a DOG !
If you own a dog you are TOTALLY responsible for their actions !!
non of this mamby pampy stuff of,,,,(,well they have never done this before and I'm so upset blarney etc etc) ... the DOG is your dog you are the ones who hold the responsibility of anything that goes on you have to get to know your own dog !..IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT BREED IT IS THEY ARE A DOG!
I am so fed up of reading about attacks on people and children and country animals... ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE KEEP YOUR DOG ON A LEAD WHEN OUT.... AND KEEP YOUR DOG SAFE IN A GARDEN THATS FIT FOR PURPOSE !

Further to my point about genetics and aggression, it’s why it’s important to check and know the temperament of the parents of a puppy you may be considering from a breeder as traits like nervousness, fear and aggression can be passed on.

I think there should be stricter control over the breeding of dogs. I think if you want to breed you should have to apply for some kind of license, which is only granted if you can fulfill certain criteria and are home checked...a bit like when you apply to rehome a dog from a charity. There’s a whole heap of unscrupulous people breeding from very unsuitable dogs over the internet. In the nature/nurture debate I think nurture has a huge impact of course but it’s true that the nature of the dog, it’s history and parentage has a huge impact too. Some dogs will just always be unsuitable as pets.

Really sad story.
I am not sure how tougher controls would help when people like this owner are ignoring them. All you will do is make it harder for genuine dog owners.

They were pit bulls.

What a dreadful, horrific thing to happen - that poor woman.

If indeed they were pit bulls then the book should be thrown at the owner. As far as I am aware, this is a banned breed - it is illegal to bred or buy or sell them. They should (as I understand it, and if the law hasn't been changed) be tattooed, microchipped, neutered and kept on a leash and muzzled in public.

Theoretically this type of dog should have effectively become extinct in the UK after the Dangerous Dogs Act placed them on the list of banned breeds - but of course, there are always rselholes who insist on breeding them illegally, and other rsholes who sell and buy them.

Absolutely dreadful thing to happen.

Reprehensible- Husky type dogs were bought by some people as they featured on Game of Thrones. Yes, people are that dense to buy a great big dog like that because of a drama series and then wonder why they cannot cope with the animal. Where I live Staffies are bought as status symbols and protection for the people involved in nefarious activities. They are not 'pets'.

Sounds like everyone is against bull breeds due to damage they do. How can that be objectively defined. Bite force seems to be an objective deliminator. Interesting that labs are #20 on a list that doesn't include staffies. That means the power of their bite is more than that of a staffy.

petcomments.com/ten-dogs-which-have-the-strongest-bite/

We haven’t been able to stop
shit breeders
Ear cropping
Hare coursing
Dog fighting
Breeding terrible health traits

For a nation reputed for our love of dogs, we are really shit at doing our best for them.

I think latching on to the breed is missing the point. It doesn’t take a second to google chihuahua attack or dachshund attack...both tiny dogs but still can be viscous and with horrible consequences. Just banning specific breeds is not enough.

@Flaxmeadow

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

What regulation do you think would have prevented that tragedy?

I wouldn't support a ban on staffies. I'd never have one myself (too big and too strong for me), but I love them. I've known many, and every one has been adorable and had lovely temperament

Agree they can have lovely temperaments. Unfortunately staffies are often crossed with pitbulls (pitbulls and pitbull crosses are banned in the U.K.) and many people pass pitbull crosses off as staffies to avoid the law. They look very similar.

The Staffie was originally a breed developed in England for the sport of bear baiting, then bull baiting (they had to be able to pin a bull down by its nose hence the jaw strength, muscular agility and desire to hang on). Then these sports were banned and staffies were used for dog fighting and betting. Around this time they were exported to the US where the pitbull was developed (a bigger, stronger version of the staffie with a reputation for aggression especially towards small children). Then pitbulls came to the U.K. as they were better fighters. When dog fighting was banned people continued breeding pitbull crosses. Illegal dog fighting has always continued (underground) and is still legal in a few countries and states so dogs get sold on the black market and shipped abroad.

Many people own staffie X pitbull crosses without realising their dog is part pitbull, as breeders often lie or falsify papers.