What is this behaviour by teacher?

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Class of 9 and 10 year olds, about to go into lockdown, the class is talking about what it will be like and asking questions. Suddenly the teacher says out of the blue, first time anything like this has happened "and who will miss Charlie and his bad temper?"

Charlie is shocked and upset and the class sort of murmured "me" and Charlie's mother asks the teacher what was up when she saw her and the teacher said that she had spoken to Charlie and all was fine, apparently Charlie had lost his temper because someone had pushed him in the playground.

Then the next day Charlie comes out in floods of tears, saying that he had written down an instruction he thought had to be written down, the teacher had starting berating him and saying only he would do that, and encouraged the whole class to mock him, he had become upset at the berating and some of the class had laughed.

The teacher is normally fine.

It doesn’t matter. It’s not acceptable whoever the target is.

@boomwhacker

To be clear, I am a secondary teacher. My comments regarding msbehaviour's wholly inappropriate approaches are based on that. The primary example I gave was based on the OP. It is true thought that, regardless of the age of students, the power difference is the same. You are not the equal of your students and nor are you their friend. My comments regarding the need to take the higher moral ground as a teacher and my concerns about what you do if a student responds are absolutely relevant to secondary- in fact, a cheeky response is more likely in secondary. I am also concerned that msbehaviour feels that she knows everything there is to know about her students' home situations. This is nonsense and suggests a level of inexperience and naivety actually. To be clear, people have made judgements on your teaching based on what you have told us about it. If you are a "reflective practitioner" as you purport to be, some reflection might be needed regarding this.

My interactions with students are not 'wholly inappropriate'. If they were, I would have been sacked by now. I am also not naive or inexperienced. As I said above, I work in a pretty unique environment where I have taught most of my students for several years and only have 15 of them in a class. Because of this unique environment and the needs of the children I teach, I do know their home situations intimately. I understand that for many teachers, in their contexts, this wouldn't be possible. But in mine, it genuinely is.

I have reflected, on reading these posts. It has actually been a very thought provoking experience to read people's views, and I will continue to think about this when I go back to school after Easter. It has made me consider how I use humour and I am going to think extra carefully before I use it in response to some of the experiences shared on this thread. I have been deeply saddened by some people's experiences and I would absolutely hate for anyone in my classroom to feel the same way as these people were made to feel by something misjudged that I said. It has made me feel even more committed to ensuring my classroom is as safe a place as it can possibly be, actually.

I'm not saying I'm perfect and I'm always open to learning. But what I do object to is the way posters on here immediately jump to attacking, criticising, and accusing, using very personal and judgemental language that is painfully ironic considering the content of the discussion. I'm always open to reflection - but it's hard to be reflective when you feel like you're up against a firing squad who twists everything you say.

@Bbq1 I guess the point is how can you really know if they’re enjoying it?

There’s a teacher at work who is totally beloved by the kids, and who they always want as their next teacher because he’s great at banter, always joking with the kids etc. He is such a lovely man as well. I always thought that at a certain point you can hone that skill and it’s fine, because everyone loves him. This has certainly led me to think about that differently. The kids do adore him but I wonder if some of them feel anxious about not being able to be “quick enough” to join in with the humour and then feel bad and confused if they don’t enjoy it. You’d probably never know.

It’s not like you can never have a joke. If my team lose on the weekend a group of my boys bound in full of glee and ask me “happy with the score miss???? 3-0!!”

I have seen teachers use humour and REALLY get through to difficult children with it, but I guess it’s just one of those things that’s incredibly tricky to judge.

@Baws

Another vote for Charlie being a little bugger and that the teacher will have a very different version of events!

He may well be a little bugger, but humiliation and reducing to tears is not an effective strategy.

I have reflected, on reading these posts. It has actually been a very thought provoking experience to read people's views, and I will continue to think about this when I go back to school after Easter. It has made me consider how I use humour and I am going to think extra carefully before I use it in response to some of the experiences shared on this thread. I have been deeply saddened by some people's experiences and I would absolutely hate for anyone in my classroom to feel the same way as these people were made to feel by something misjudged that I said. It has made me feel even more committed to ensuring my classroom is as safe a place as it can possibly be, actually.*

This is a good outcome and hopefully will have a positive impact on the atmosphere of your classroom and your students.

This is obviously very hard to comment on when you haven’t seen an interaction take place, but I’ve been a TA in secondary and inwardly cringed at some teachers when they ‘tease’ kids. This sometimes comes from very experienced and senior teachers. I am at times a bit sarcastic with kids but tbh I often immediately think it wasn’t worth. Sometimes kids ash questions with very obvious answers like ‘what’s the date?’ when it’s on the board and they get a bit of an exasperated or sarcastic reply, but I am reluctant to take it further than that.

I have also seen very effective teachers who create a lovely atmosphere without any teasing or ribbing at all. Sometimes very strict teachers who never joke about are very good because the pupils know exactly what to expect. It’s an art not a science but I think teasing carries an unnecessary risk in a lot of circumstances.

What is the behaviour? I believe the technical word is "twattish"

@msbehavin

I've dealt with a teacher like you. Think they know best and think it's just for fun. The truth is you don't know these kids. Singling out one child to laugh at them as a "joke" is wrong. My son was the butt of the jokes like that for a 2 terms before I removed him because the jokes in the classroom then filtered out onto the playground at break and lunchtime. I had a child who was told time and time again that he was always making the mistakes, he's silly, he can't play because he makes mistakes all the time and all because of what someone like you said to him in a classroom. He believed he was stupid and his confidence was at an all time low, he had no friends and he would self harm in school and at home so you think it's a joke but it's not.

It's fine to have humour in your classroom but it is not ok for one child to be your target and encouraging others to join in is just cruel.

I’m with @Introvertedbuthappy on this one. I laughed along with everyone else but a teacher who used methods like @msbehavin at school ruined high school for me. I managed to leave in 3rd year but it’s left scars.

The teacher concerned would have told you they were loved and loved us and that we were all so close because of it. In reality we were all scared we’d be next and rallying on someone else and cosying up to teacher helped avoid being their next victim.

One of my children had a teacher whose style sounds something like that of @misbehavin. She was 'devastated' that we 'misinterpreted' her humourous teaching style. She went so far as to do an impression of Ds for the other children one day, when he was absent (others were very quick to tell him when he returned).

That was 7 years ago, and I still feel a seething anger when I think about that (and numerous other 'witty' comments she made about him).

@CloudFormations

telling everyone not to 'do an insert kid name here' if there's a running joke about a particular child in the class who's always doing something wrong

It’s honestly hard to imagine how this could be anything other than horrible for the child in question?

Agreed, this is so wrong. I'm glad that msbehavin has had this pointed out though obviously it's having zero effect.

I was on the receiving end of gentle teasing (bullying) from teachers at school, because I was different. And of course everyone laughs when the teacher does it - if it's not directed at you you're just relieved you are not the focus, and it's great to feel superior. It doesn't mean you have a 'warm' atmosphere.

There are many other ways to have a warm, fun atmosphere without 'gentle teasing'.

@KittytheHare

One of my children had a teacher whose style sounds something like that of *@misbehavin*. She was 'devastated' that we 'misinterpreted' her humourous teaching style. She went so far as to do an impression of Ds for the other children one day, when he was absent (others were very quick to tell him when he returned).

That was 7 years ago, and I still feel a seething anger when I think about that (and numerous other 'witty' comments she made about him).

I am very sorry this happened to your child and their teacher's behaviour is inexcusable and entirely unacceptable.

I have never and would never do an impression of a child in front of a class. That is cruel, it is bullying, and is actually gross misconduct. I have not said anywhere on this thread that I would condone or indulge in such behaviour myself.

Please don't imply such things about me on a public forum. By conflating your experience with what I have said about mine, you are making very damaging accusations about me that are totally unfounded and deeply offensive.

Based on that @msbehavin how would you now describe this: * telling everyone not to 'do an insert kid name here' if there's a running joke about a particular child in the class who's always doing something wrong

Msbehavin, as MiddayMadDog said: our perception of your teaching is 100% derived from your own description of it and from your subsequent responses, especially your reaction to criticism. It's so, so overdramatic. People are bullying you? A firing squad? They want you to self-flagellate?

You clearly have great confidence in your methods, your judgement, and your impeccable grasp of individual personalities and class dynamics. That you have somehow failed to convey this in a credible way to other posters... can only prove we are ill-informed bullies with an inexplicable agenda?

It's this kind of accusation-laden, self-absorbed response which makes your original post even less sympathetic. Someone who is using a potentially negative technique but immediately resorts to blustering BUT YOU'RE ALL AGAINST ME I'M LEAVING when people disagree does not seem like someone who is genuinely self-reflective and able to make very subtle, precise distinctions about others' feelings. It seems a lot more like someone who'd squash any upset with 'it was a JOKE, come ON, you're being SILLY'. Or just not notice any upset.

I don't think you're being deliberately malicious, if that's what's offending you so much about this discussion. But that's not really the point.

telling everyone not to 'do an insert kid name here' if there's a running joke about a particular child in the class who's always doing something wrong, etc

Likewise with the writing down the wrong thing - if I had a child in my class who always does things like that, I'd probably make a joke of it too- 'oh dear, never mind, trust you Charlie!' - said in a lighthearted and affectionate tone, showing it didn't matter and that I found their behaviour endearing

@msbehavin.I'm really pleased to hear that you have decided to reflect on what people have said. May I ask if you are reflecting on these approaches of yours, examples of which you have given above?

Its just that I cannot see how labelling children by their failures like that can be anything other than damaging and humiliating, even if the child hides this from you. And as others have pointed out, teachers they who took this approach just created fear in other pupils who didn't want to find themselves 'gently teased' and labelled like this in front of their peers.

Also, the job of a teacher is to help a child to see their capability and ability to overcome and achieve, and to engage and enjoy learning. Not to teach them that they are intrinsically and irredeemably hopeless but that is ok as they are endearing.

@boomwhacker

Based on that *@msbehavin how would you now describe this: * * telling everyone not to 'do an insert kid name here' if there's a running joke about a particular child in the class who's always doing something wrong

I admit and acknowledge that was very poorly phrased.

What I meant was, for example, if there's a student who always forgets their packed lunch when we go on a trip, and I say, before the next trip, 'now don't do a Max and forget your lunch tomorrow, because we won't have time for me to pop to Pret to pick you up something!' - in the context of Max being a child who loves being the centre of attention, it having been treated lightheartedly when he forgot his lunch before, and me knowing that Max would enjoy the joke. If I had any inkling that Max would be upset or offended, would hate being singled out, or if the reason Max didn't bring his lunch was because of tricky home circumstances, I of course wouldn't use him to make the point about lunch at all. Any joke of this nature would be incredibly carefully judged based on my knowledge of the child, their circumstances, their personality and their relationships with their classmates.

If I am ever in any doubt about how such a joke would be taken, I don't say anything. I only ever tease in this way if I am 100% certain it will be taken in the right spirit.

I genuinely don't see how that can be classed as bullying in any way, shape or form. The children do the same thing to me. 'Oh, miss, are you going to cry?' when we get to a bit in a book they know will make me sob, or 'oh miss have you checked the directions because you know you got us lost last time!' before we go on a trip, etc.

I think part of the problem is that even in the rarest of situations where a teacher really is privy to every aspect of a child's home and personal life in order to be sure that they are not overstepping the boundaries of appropriate classroom humour, an environment where personal comments are acceptable from a teacher is likely to be one where this spills out onto the playground.

The perfect teacher, who balances their wit with their knowledge in a way that encourages students and creates a nurturing environment, is still contributing to a school scenerio in which taking the piss out of people is endorsed and supported by the staff. It's a lot harder to enforce rules that you are breaking yourself, however nuanced and better-intentioned it may be.

If commenting negatively on someone's abilities/habits/behaviour is ok for teachers in certain situations, then how confident is a student going to be sharing that they are being bullied by students over those same abilities/habits/behaviours?

@MiddayMadDog

telling everyone not to 'do an insert kid name here' if there's a running joke about a particular child in the class who's always doing something wrong, etc

Likewise with the writing down the wrong thing - if I had a child in my class who always does things like that, I'd probably make a joke of it too- 'oh dear, never mind, trust you Charlie!' - said in a lighthearted and affectionate tone, showing it didn't matter and that I found their behaviour endearing

@msbehavin.I'm really pleased to hear that you have decided to reflect on what people have said. May I ask if you are reflecting on these approaches of yours, examples of which you have given above?

Its just that I cannot see how labelling children by their failures like that can be anything other than damaging and humiliating, even if the child hides this from you. And as others have pointed out, teachers they who took this approach just created fear in other pupils who didn't want to find themselves 'gently teased' and labelled like this in front of their peers.

Also, the job of a teacher is to help a child to see their capability and ability to overcome and achieve, and to engage and enjoy learning. Not to teach them that they are intrinsically and irredeemably hopeless but that is ok as they are endearing.

I don't label children by their failures. I do help children to see their capabilities and achievements. 99% of the interactions in my classroom are praise and encouragement based. I don't spend my whole time teaching teasing children or dwelling on the things they've done wrong. I wouldn't have actually dealt with the situation described in the OP as that teacher did, I was just attempting to explain why/how a situation like that may arise.

As I have stated repeatedly, I don't use teasing in the context of a child's work, ever. Only ever in behaviour, and only if I know that the joke will be understood as such and appreciated by the child as part of creating a safe and supportive environment where they know that despite their foibles they are accepted and loved. I very badly phrased my original post, and I'm very sorry for the misunderstanding it has caused.

Please know I am not the type of teacher who thinks I'm cool by getting down with the kids and uses them as the butt of jokes to get the other kids on side. That is not at all what I meant about the type of mild teasing I use and I really feel that the whole thing has been blown horrendously out of proportion.

What is this behaviour by teacher I'd say at best it's a badly judged response from the teacher to the pupil; at worst it's bullying. Using class dynamics to reinforce their words is not a fair response at all.

What I meant was, for example, if there's a student who always forgets their packed lunch when we go on a trip, and I say, before the next trip, 'now don't do a Max and forget your lunch tomorrow, because we won't have time for me to pop to Pret to pick you up something!'
A child who always forgets his packed lunch would cause me to wonder why he was "forgetting" it and why there wasn't any adult support around to ensure he remembered what he needed for the trip. I would be asking if there was a reason he repeatedly didn't have any lunch on trip days. Cost maybe? Repeatedly not having lunch for trips would be a concern and an indication that something wasn't quite as it should be- the scenario you describe is more than a one off mistake isn't it.
I most definitely wouldn't be making him the butt of a joke.

99% of the interactions in my classroom are praise and encouragement based

And for some children, the 1% will be all they remember of that day.

@msbehavin you have stated you tease for behaviour. This is (and I mean this kindly) a negative way of dealing with those children. Please do reflect on the way this is crippling those children’s confidence. I’m watching it happen to my ds and it’s very difficult to understand why the teacher is doing this.

If this posts highlights where you can be even better, then you truly are a great teacher, and we need more of you.

Remember the power of your words, it’s the same for most parents. We get it wrong, and we reflect, and hopefully grow.

Please don’t label children’s behaviour or mock them in front of their peers. It’s degrading and they may not be emotionally equipped to deal with this.

But once again, you are making it personal and you have no way of knowing if your coining of a new noun as a label for a negative behavioural trait will spill over into more barbed usage outside the classroom. Every time you try to explain it, you're just making it worse.

@boomwhacker

What I meant was, for example, if there's a student who always forgets their packed lunch when we go on a trip, and I say, before the next trip, 'now don't do a Max and forget your lunch tomorrow, because we won't have time for me to pop to Pret to pick you up something!' A child who always forgets his packed lunch would cause me to wonder why he was "forgetting" it and why there wasn't any adult support around to ensure he remembered what he needed for the trip. I would be asking if there was a reason he repeatedly didn't have any lunch on trip days. Cost maybe? Repeatedly not having lunch for trips would be a concern and an indication that something wasn't quite as it should be- the scenario you describe is more than a one off mistake isn't it. I most definitely wouldn't be making him the butt of a joke.

Why have you selectively quoted me?

As I said in my post:
If I had any inkling that Max would be upset or offended, would hate being singled out, or if the reason Max didn't bring his lunch was because of tricky home circumstances, I of course wouldn't use him to make the point about lunch at all. Any joke of this nature would be incredibly carefully judged based on my knowledge of the child, their circumstances, their personality and their relationships with their classmates.

I entirely agree with you re: seeing this as a concern if it were a pattern of behaviour connected with what I knew to be a chaotic home environment. If this was something that was happening due to home circumstances, I would be highly concerned, would be reporting it, and would never dream of making it the butt of jokes.

However, if Max was a fun loving, cheeky chappie with a supportive home environment, but who had a habit of not giving his mum the trip letters and so was always not bringing a lunch on school trip days, and was telling his mates every time he didn't bring said lunch that it doesn't matter, miss will buy me a fancy lunch from Pret if I don't bring it, then it's a situation where a bit of gentle humour around it reminds Max that this behaviour isn't acceptable, he can't keep expecting me to use my own money to buy him lunch when he forgets, and he needs to sort himself out.

If you really are a secondary teacher, you should know exactly what I mean in terms of judging the appropriate response in a situation like this.

If you really are a secondary teacher

Seriously?