Report that says Institutional Racism doesn't exist and more ...

[Dustyboots]

Is no one else angry about this?

I can't find any other threads about it.

What is going on?

And the bit that says the “slave period”, was not just about “profit and suffering” and argues that the era was also about how “culturally African people transformed themselves into a re-modelled African/Britain”.

Are people unaware of this? Or do we just no longer care ...

The most disadvantaged group in school is white working class boys - they have low attainment and face discrimination due to class. The UK has progressed a great deal over the last 30 years, there may be occasion pockets of racism but by and large this is not a racist country. The constant allegations of racism are backfiring and are likely to make people less likely to mix with those of different ethnicity. Where racism exits and is clearly evident challenge but their is tendency to see race as an issue in everything and that is not the case and is overused

'The constant allegations of racism are backfiring and are likely to make people less likely to mix with those of different ethnicity. '

Seriously? That's... Really?

You know people who's reaction to hearing about racism is to avoid all non white people?

This is a bit of a guess, but is it possible it's an excuse for doing what they wanted to do all along.

Do they also avoid Jewish people because there's been a lot of things about anti semitism in the news?
Did they start avoiding women after metoo?

What a childish, silly reaction.

'their is tendency to see race as an issue in everything and that is not the case and is overused'

These are all the EXACT same things that are said to women when we talk about our issues.

Is there some kind of script?

Incidentally the fact that white working class boys have poor results does not mean that other issues should be put to one side. Why would it?

The most fucked up thing about racism in this country is that white people think they're the ones who should decide whether racism exists. What's racist or not. Who is racist or not.

We rightfully push back against men who think they should be the final judges of whether something is sexist or misogynist. The same principle should apply here.

The constant allegations of racism are backfiring and are likely to make people less likely to mix with those of different ethnicity

yeah sure IF YOU'RE RACIST

@dreamingbohemian

The most fucked up thing about racism in this country is that white people think they're the ones who should decide whether racism exists. What's racist or not. Who is racist or not.

We rightfully push back against men who think they should be the final judges of whether something is sexist or misogynist. The same principle should apply here.

This.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

There has been progress in racism just like there has been progress on sexism. The more overt stuff is no longer allowed but in neither case have these been eradicated. The more subtle things are still there. We shouldn't be patting ourselves in the back saying how good we are whilst inequality and discrimination still remains.

As regards class you can change that I think whereas you can't change your race or your sex
I base that on my parents who were born into working class households in which the main breadwinners were a coal miner and a farm labourer but they became middle class professionals after going to university. So I think you can change your class. You shouldn't have to but you can.

*As regards class you can change that I think whereas you can't change your race or your sex*

You joking saying you can’t chance your sex? It’s the main topic of debate at the minute. Check out the feminist board, they highlight the implications for women.

You can change your class to an extent but for some the top jobs, in certain professions, they seek privately educated students etc... someone with a strong northern accent would soon be put in their pecking order to be reminded of their roots!

Class and poverty is a massive barrier for all ethnicities.

When I said you can't change your sex I was not joking and I said it in the full knowledge of all the implications of saying that because it is a biological fact. Your gender yes you can change, your sex no.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

When I said you can't change your sex I was not joking and I said it in the full knowledge of all the implications of saying that because it is a biological fact. Your gender yes you can change, your sex no.

I quite agree with you but the way things are going, it might be irrelevant whether is a biological fact or not soon....

Report aside - this thread has turned into pitting white people against ONE group in the phrase BAME.
one group seems to be constantly complaining, insisting on safe spaces etc etc despite the fact that most non-white migrants in the U.K were from Commonwealth countries. This is not the U.S.
one group is known for making their children buckle down, study hard, get stellar results in school despite living in the toughest conditions.
If the U.K was THAT racist you wouldn’t have loads of people trying to come here every year would you...

Has it?
I don't feel like that.
There are some posts I disagree with and so I've said so, everyone else does that too. Can you give an example of a post that feels like it's trying to start a row, to you?

'one group seems to be constantly complaining, insisting on safe spaces etc etc despite the fact that most non-white migrants in the U.K were from Commonwealth countries. '

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean. Which group and what safe spaces?

The last points I'm not sure what you mean either in terms of which group. The migrants thing might be clearer once I understand the groups.

NotAPanda

You mean you're pitting yourself against Black people.

To live in a country that survived via stealing and draining resources from other countries, that disrupts countries to gain oil, that still has Museums wholly depending upon staying open by displaying stolen artefacts, then to actually say it's so great and that's the reason people from overseas come here, shows that real history really does need to be taught in schools.

& perhaps also at those faux Diversity workshops, so the elders can also be updated.

Lack of education especially on a subject one chooses to speak on is a real problem.

I think it's fairly clear NotaPanda means black people are the bad ethnic minorities vs Asian people are the good ones.

Upthread another poster said similarly that her stereotypical assumptions about Indian people specifically (not even Asian people just Indian ones) are that they are hardworking and risk taking.

So I had thought that one of the only things the report had correct was trying to stop use of BAME to lump all minority ethnic experiences together

However it looks like many people are just going to use that to demonise black people specifically ie 'if these good ethnic minority people can succeed then why not you? It can't be racism cos Indians so alright'

People can't seem to get the concept that some ethnic minority people are discriminated against more than others.

one group seems to be constantly complaining, insisting on safe spaces etc etc despite the fact that most non-white migrants in the U.K were from Commonwealth countries.

I was confused by this comment as well.
I'm not sure what Commonwealth countries has to do with "one group" complaining.

This is what I know about the Commonwealth - there are 54 countries in the Commonwealth. They range from. Africa, Asia, Caribbean,Europe and the Pacific.
Whats great about it is each country is completely different to another. Its very diverse each with different races, ethnicities, cultures, and economies etc.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

I think it's fairly clear NotaPanda means black people are the bad ethnic minorities vs Asian people are the good ones.

Upthread another poster said similarly that her stereotypical assumptions about Indian people specifically (not even Asian people just Indian ones) are that they are hardworking and risk taking.

So I had thought that one of the only things the report had correct was trying to stop use of BAME to lump all minority ethnic experiences together

However it looks like many people are just going to use that to demonise black people specifically ie 'if these good ethnic minority people can succeed then why not you? It can't be racism cos Indians so alright'

People can't seem to get the concept that some ethnic minority people are discriminated against more than others.

I’m actually half black and half Indian 😂 I don’t deny that racism exists in the U.K, but it’s far better than other countries. After having spent time in various places including both my parents home countries the conclusion is the same. If you have a much needed skill/talent then race doesn’t really matter. When jobs are abundant etc everyone gets on well. When resources are scarce people start fighting and become tribal ... when you have 2/3 candidates and no difference in job ability people are likely to choose the ones most like them. The fairest way IMO is to admit it and pick one based on a dice throw to prevent this.

My opinion was based on my observations in my own family. Both my parents were dirt poor from rough areas but different mindsets

At the end of the day I’m not qualified to speak for anyone else - but as this whole thing is based on anecdotal evidence anyway I felt compelled to give my twopence worth

She also doesn't appear to have read the thread.

Windrush scandal wasn't so long ago.

The safe spaces comment baffles me. I thought it was mainly students at university who wanted those. I don't get that comment at all.

Racism / xenophobia / religious intolerance or suspicion all have different drivers and backgrounds and so on. Where you live and what populations are there also impacts. None of this is straightforward.

And in response to this
'one group seems to be constantly complaining, insisting on safe spaces etc etc despite the fact that most non-white migrants in the U.K were from Commonwealth countries'

If that's an argument then the reverse must be considered- that some groups are more successful because people are less racist about them...

In reality things are much more complicated but that's the obvious response to that comment

Yes, that ‘one group’ hey.
Well put NiceGerbil

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

This report not only doesn't think that racism is not the reason for 'ethnicity disparities' in outcomes

The commission have some lovely alternative theories for you of why you are to blame

Black people it's absent fathers and single mothers who are ruining your communities. You should be more like South Asian people marry young and stay together. Children need time and attention

But hold on Pakistani and Bangladeshi people it's stay at home mum's ruining your life chances! Too many women in those communities are 'economically inactive'. They must be giving too much time and attention to their children and not getting out there breaking their families out of poverty.

I honestly can't believe this polemic is justified as a 'report'

So, do you not think these things make a difference?

Because it's pretty well accepted that one of the biggest risks for growing up poor, which has all kinds of subsequent risks attached to it, is coming from a single parent household.

And we know that some demographic groups have higher levels of this than others. This is something that Glen Lowery in the US talks about a lot as being a significant contributor to the problem of child poverty in the black community.

Like, are you disputing these kinds of things make an impact? If they do in white families, but it doesn't in non-white families?

Of course you can go on and ask why it is that is a differential, and in fact, you should go on and ask that. Because that gives you a place to begin to address the issue in some way. (Assuming that's desired. Maybe the families with mums at home value that more than greater financial success, like some women in all kinds of different communities.)

Whereas calling it systemic racism doesn't.

So is it single parent households that are the problem, or not?! The whole point is the contradiction.

'Because it's pretty well accepted that one of the biggest risks for growing up poor, which has all kinds of subsequent risks attached to it, is coming from a single parent household.'

Is it?

I thought it was poverty, which is much more likely in single parent families. Maybe getting the child support payment system sorted out would help?

I went to a private school, about 1/3 children had divorced parents. They all seem to have done just fine. Funny that.

@NiceGerbil

So is it single parent households that are the problem, or not?! The whole point is the contradiction.

I don't see what contradiction you are talking about here.

In the UK, and also many other western countries, two incomes, or at least one and a half, are kind of the standard for economic security.

Single parent households - which most often are headed by women - are much higher risk for poverty. This is not a disputed stat. Nor is it disputed that other things come with child poverty at a statistical level, like poor educational attainment.

Any community that has a significantly higher number of single parent families than the population at large will l also very likely suffer more child poverty, less educational attainment and all of the other social ills of child poverty.

Families where the mum doesn't work typically make less than similar families where both parents work. This does not tend to follow to the same extent among the wealthy for several reasons, but for middle class and working class families, there can be a really significant difference to having that second income. Economically it creates some of the same issues as single parent families, though there is likely to be more direct parental support for kids.

So if some group has significantly more families like this, it will also have an effect.

Where do you see this as contradictory?

@NiceGerbil

'Because it's pretty well accepted that one of the biggest risks for growing up poor, which has all kinds of subsequent risks attached to it, is coming from a single parent household.'

Is it?

I thought it was poverty, which is much more likely in single parent families. Maybe getting the child support payment system sorted out would help?

I went to a private school, about 1/3 children had divorced parents. They all seem to have done just fine. Funny that.

Ok, I'm not sure what to do with this.

First of all do you really think a private school is the place to get a representative sample of the economic effects of divorce??

But more to the point, you have actually just said what I said. Poverty is more likely in single parent households. The reason that is the case is because in a single parent household there is only one income.

Child support is a help but it doesn't solve the problem, you simply can't maintain two households for the same price as one.

NiceGerbil
Maybe getting the child support payment system sorted out would help?

Agree. Some speak as if children get here via immaculate conception. The government getting fathers to take on board financial responsibilities would help but of course, can't disturb the men...

& I know of more than enough single parent non-Black families via work, but of course they're not mentioned

So the problem is both single parent families and families with SAHM?

But families with money are ok whatever really the structure.

But yet it's still the family structure that's the problem and not the money.

That's really back to front.

I know stacks of white single parents at work as well.

And at the primary school there were a stack of SAHM.

Funny how they are doing ok isn't it.