To feel extremely depressed about how Brexit is limiting the lives we once knew.

[Persiantrio]

Presumably now, if you want to go shopping in Paris on the Eurostar, you will have to declare, queue and pay customs on any clothes / goods over a given amount at the border. How crap and inconvenient is that?

Same with any holiday purchases from anywhere in the EU? Not worth it.

Also if you order anything online that happens to come from the EU and costs over over £135, you get hit with massive customs charges of about 40%. Companies like Etsy etc are taking a massive hit as a result.

How is this “taking back control?” Its so depressing and backward. The only reason nobody is kicking off about this yet is because nobody could go anywhere anyway. People don’t realise the freedoms they had and that are now gone. What a shit and insular place to live this will be.

And I don’t wait to hear any predictable ‘vaccine nationalism’ waffle either (because that has nothing whatsoever to do with what I’m asking in this instance and we could have done exactly the same within the EU anyway).

I did warn you...

@HannibalHayes

I did warn you...

You are right but it needs pointing out that what she is posting is not in anyway relevant.

“Liberal elite” - when did liberalism become an insult? Maybe people would prefer a totalitarian elite?

A whole referendum was won by handing out a few catchphrases. “Take Back Control.” “Liberal elite.” “Sovereignty.”

For me, I’ve always said Farage is this century’s version of a Hitler in sheep’s clothing and a Cheshire Cat grin. He knew that all you have to do to win over the most economically dispossessed on society was to tell them you’re going to make the country “great” again; “Take Back Control” and then give them a focus for their anger. For Hitler it was the European nations perceived to have brought Germany to its knees via the Treaty Of Versailles - and then the Jews. For Farage 2016 Britain it was the big bad EU - and, of course EU migrants (or migrants in general and frequently confused with refugees, but nooo, we’re not racists really). Farage appealed to the worst sentiments of humanity (he knew it was there, bubbling under the surface). He gave an acceptable voice to xenophobia, “othering,” and nationalism.

The astonishing thing is, that the very party who have oppressed so many for so long managed to bamboozle enough of the very same people that all their problems were not really down to Conservative policies. Nooo, it was the EU and the pesky “Liberal elite.” Strangely, Oxbridge-educated Cummings and Johnson were not themselves part of the ‘liberal elite’ - no, they were now “the will of the people.” Amazing when you think of how this happened. Like an extraordinary mind-game on a major scale. This is how I see it anyway. Scary stuff.

Whereas twitter.com/rdanielkelemen/status/1349005690816385024 is a very, very, very long thread on so many things that have been lost as a direct result...

lifeturnsonadime
Clavinova you know that the things you are linking are not a benefit of Brexit, right?

The Brexit Job Loss list has various categories:

Job Loss Data & Methodology
Job losses are attributed to Brexit if they meet one or more of the following conditions: ...

Barring other obvious explanations businesses that were doing okay but experienced a significant slowdown after the Brexit vote are deemed to have been impacted by Brexit.

All jobs moved abroad are considered Brexit-related even if offshored outside the EU, since Brexit makes Britain a “third country” to the EU, just like India or China. ...

"Barring other obvious explanations" and now that we are a "third country" - all new/incoming jobs must be a benefit of Brexit surely?

I missed this one;

30 March 2021-
GSK has reached an agreement in principle with Novavax and the UK Government Vaccines Taskforce to support manufacturing of up to 60 million doses of Novavax’ COVID-19 vaccine candidate (NVX-CoV2373) for use in the UK. GSK will provide ‘fill and finish’ manufacturing capacity at its Barnard Castle facility in the North East of England beginning as early as May 2021, with a rapid technology transfer between the two companies beginning immediately.

www.mtdmfg.com/news/gsk-to-help-manufacture-novavax-vaccine-at-its-county-durham-plant/

24 March 2021 -
An Abu Dhabi investment fund has agreed to pay £800m into UK life sciences, in what could be the first of billions of pounds of investment in the UK.

Mubadala, one of the UAE's most active funds, will invest the money over five years.

Abu Dhabi is set to invest heavily in British health, tech, green energy and infrastructure, according to the Financial Times.

The exact size of the total investment is not yet clear, the FT said, but could be worth up to £5bn.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56496888

[quote Clavinova]lifeturnsonadime
Clavinova you know that the things you are linking are not a benefit of Brexit, right?

The Brexit Job Loss list has various categories:

Job Loss Data & Methodology
Job losses are attributed to Brexit if they meet one or more of the following conditions: ...

Barring other obvious explanations businesses that were doing okay but experienced a significant slowdown after the Brexit vote are deemed to have been impacted by Brexit.

All jobs moved abroad are considered Brexit-related even if offshored outside the EU, since Brexit makes Britain a “third country” to the EU, just like India or China. ...

"Barring other obvious explanations" and now that we are a "third country" - all new/incoming jobs must be a benefit of Brexit surely?

I missed this one;

30 March 2021-
GSK has reached an agreement in principle with Novavax and the UK Government Vaccines Taskforce to support manufacturing of up to 60 million doses of Novavax’ COVID-19 vaccine candidate (NVX-CoV2373) for use in the UK. GSK will provide ‘fill and finish’ manufacturing capacity at its Barnard Castle facility in the North East of England beginning as early as May 2021, with a rapid technology transfer between the two companies beginning immediately.

www.mtdmfg.com/news/gsk-to-help-manufacture-novavax-vaccine-at-its-county-durham-plant/[/quote]
And your point is?
You are still not making any arguments that make any material sense.

Are you saying that the only way we can demonstrate that Brexit is bad for the UK is if ALL UK manufacturing goes abroad?

@lifeturnsonadime,

But I could also ask you if the only way that someone could demonstrate Brexit is good is by not a single job loss.

Like everything, we will lose some jobs and gain some jobs. It will take years to wash through the system before we know the outcome.

The $800 mio investment post Brexit does demonstrate confidence in post-Brexit U.K.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@lifeturnsonadime,

But I could also ask you if the only way that someone could demonstrate Brexit is good is by not a single job loss.

Like everything, we will lose some jobs and gain some jobs. It will take years to wash through the system before we know the outcome.

The $800 mio investment post Brexit does demonstrate confidence in post-Brexit U.K.[/quote]
Thank goodness there is going to be post Brexit investment. Of course there will be some losses and some gains but much of what Clavinova has posted is not inward investment, it is industry that is already in the UK.

At some point, hopefully, there will be a full analysis of the cost benefit of the exercise but just the financial sector lost to Paris and Amsterdam amounts to 14bn which makes the $800 m investment appear quite paltry.

I didn't want Brexit to happen but I don't want the country to fail.

A success to me would be for the deprived areas to directly benefit from the 'subs' that everyone complained about. A success would be us having laws introduced to give our workers greater protections than those in the EU and having us being world leaders in environmental policies and laws. Unfortunately the current government is unlikely to implement many, if any, changes which I would deem to be a real benefit. Indications suggest that workers rights will be reduced.

FOM is a real issue for many. It is often poo pood on here as irrelevant or the privilege of the rich but that's extremely simplistic.

I don’t want the country to fail. It’s where I live and where my children live. I’m just sad that my life and their lives will be worse due to decisions made by others out of fear, ignorance, xenophobia, or greed. I hope I still have 30 years in me to live through and get back to pre-Brexit level but what a waste.

www.theguardian.com/politics/shortcuts/2018/jul/24/two-50-or-100-years-when-do-leavers-think-brexit-will-pay-off Or 50 years according to JRM.

There was a farmer on the news the other week who has the most beautiful fields in Cornwall, full of daffodils overlooking the sea. But he was bemoaning the fact that there is a very small window to pick daffodils (ie while they’re still buds), but this years crop was ruined because there was nobody to pick them. He said nobody locally was interested. He said he managed to get 5 people from a nearby town, but by mid-morning they said they were going for a coffee break and never came back. The next day, three students showed up but said it hurt their backs and went home. Also, he said this is not something he can invest in machinery to do as it doesn’t work with these flowers. So he said that was the end of that business

After last year being one of many people who applied to do this sort of job and getting no response then seeing the farmer saying that he didn’t have any British people apply so he had to bring people in from EU countries then I wonder whether this particular farmer did the same last year so nobody wanted to waste their time applying this year.
Unfortunately I suspect it was short sighted of farmers to say last year no one applied to pick crops because people just won’t waste their time applying this year.

If I buy any jewelry abroad I will just wear it home.🤷‍♀️

@LadyWithLapdog

I don’t want the country to fail. It’s where I live and where my children live. I’m just sad that my life and their lives will be worse due to decisions made by others out of fear, ignorance, xenophobia, or greed. I hope I still have 30 years in me to live through and get back to pre-Brexit level but what a waste.

You can then console yourself that decisions were made out of optimism, internationalism, democratic impulse and well-informed research.

He said he managed to get 5 people from a nearby town, but by mid-morning they said they were going for a coffee break and never came back

The labour force they have supplied in terms of construction work has been unparalleled.. I wouldn’t say they are cheaper, it’s just that they are the ones who actually show up

Wow OP. With your daffodils example, are you suggesting locals are lazy? Also, do you believe that there's no quality local construction companies in the UK (or that their workers are also lazy)?

You are not covering yourself in glory with such unfairly skewed and prejudiced views.

@Newrumpus first laugh of the day 😂😂

Antwerp handles 84% of the world's rough diamonds, 50% of the polished diamonds and 40% of industrial diamonds, which makes it highly likely that any diamond in the world today has passed through the Belgian city at least once, either for cutting, polishing or sale.

^^quick Google

Private Eye has covered Freeports extensively. They are not fans.

Unfortunately I suspect it was short sighted of farmers to say last year no one applied to pick crops because people just won’t waste their time applying this year

I wonder whether this particular farmer was featured in The Guardian, and how much they had to search until they found this gem

At some point, hopefully, there will be a full analysis of the cost benefit of the exercise but just the financial sector lost to Paris and Amsterdam amounts to 14bn which makes the $800 m investment appear quite paltry.

Difficult to say how the next few years will pan out for the City of London - growth in green bonds/climate bonds and fintech may shape a different market:

www.businessinsider.com/uk-fintechs-get-boost-from-government-2021-budget-2021-3?r=US&IR=T
www.climatebonds.net/2021/03/uk-announces-debut-sovereign-green-bonds-ignite-britains-market

London pulled some trading back last month;

1 April 2021 -
LONDON (Reuters) - The City of London has almost closed the share trading gap with Amsterdam since dealings in Swiss shares resumed in the UK capital following Brexit, figures from Cboe exchange showed on Thursday.

In January, the average daily value of shares traded in Amsterdam was 9.22 billion euros, with 8.62 billion euros in London and 6.06 billion euros in Paris, Cboe said.

In March, Amsterdam traded 10.68 billion euros, just ahead of 10.62 billion euros in London, and 6.74 billion in Frankfurt, which has pushed Paris, at 6.44 billion, into fourth place.

The European Commission had stopped EU investors from trading on Swiss exchanges in June 2019 after a treaty dispute. Switzerland then banned EU exchanges from trading Swiss shares.

Brexit meant that Britain no longer had to comply with such EU decisions and Swiss share trading resumed in London in early February. Before the ban, London handled around 1.2 billion euros daily in Swiss shares.

www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-stocks-idUSKBN2BO54O

@HannibalHayes

The real reason for freeports is that Rishi Sunak's father in law made his billions through freeports. He obviously thinks his family and other Tory donors can make more billions out of them.

Aren’t most of the planned ones owned by ‘Furriners’? I think I read none were owned by U.K. citizens or companies.

LadyWithLapdog
According to one of the most prominent Brexiters, Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg, we should see the benefits of Brexit in about half a century. “We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time,” he said. “The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.”

Quoted out of context though - that was JRM's answer to repeatedly being asked; "What if you are wrong?" [about the benefits of Brexit].

Every post in which you try to make yourself appear empathic and relatable seems to have the exact opposite effect OP. It's remarkable.

You seem to be unable to engage or demonstrate any sensitivity towards any of the reasons that many posters have tried to explain here.

“Liberal elite” - when did liberalism become an insult? Maybe people would prefer a totalitarian elite?

I think the issue is that few can see a difference between a right wing or a left wing totalitarianism / inverted totalitarianism. None of our governments over the past 30-40 years have done anything but help the rich grow richer at the expense of the working poor. Blair was not particularly helpful to us of the younger generations.

Someone asked about how Brexit will impact house prices, we don’t know yet but it is already being said that population has fallen, due to Brexit as well as Covid. Another intertwined effect there. The reduction of the financial market, if that is happening, will also act against the huge skew of economic power to the south east. So that may help favour reductions: but that is also being countered by a flow of that unequal financial power out of London. Watch this space. I saw a report saying London house prices are already faltering and the north is up.

Wasn't it farmers who voted for Brexit ?
I remember on the brexit threads people saying that the NFU did a terrible job of promoting remain. I'm not suggesting they all did, but I recall ' shooting them selves in the foot' being mentioned back then on the many many brexit debates. Maybe they didn't know what they were voting for either? Or did they think they would still be able to keep freedom of movement just for them under some other agreements ?

Aren’t most of the planned ones owned by ‘Furriners’? I think I read none were owned by U.K. citizens or companies.

Probably by the same non-doms who donated heavily to the Tories in order to get the Brexit that saves them from paying any taxes here...