To feel extremely depressed about how Brexit is limiting the lives we once knew.

[Persiantrio]

Presumably now, if you want to go shopping in Paris on the Eurostar, you will have to declare, queue and pay customs on any clothes / goods over a given amount at the border. How crap and inconvenient is that?

Same with any holiday purchases from anywhere in the EU? Not worth it.

Also if you order anything online that happens to come from the EU and costs over over £135, you get hit with massive customs charges of about 40%. Companies like Etsy etc are taking a massive hit as a result.

How is this “taking back control?” Its so depressing and backward. The only reason nobody is kicking off about this yet is because nobody could go anywhere anyway. People don’t realise the freedoms they had and that are now gone. What a shit and insular place to live this will be.

And I don’t wait to hear any predictable ‘vaccine nationalism’ waffle either (because that has nothing whatsoever to do with what I’m asking in this instance and we could have done exactly the same within the EU anyway).

How can people not see that there is a problem with flying in Eastern Europeans to pick crops for under the minimum wage and thus not allowing people who would do that job here for fair pay to have gainful employment is not a problem

The actual problem is the companies have to fly in people from EE because British people won't do it. If you don't have the imported workers, the fruits etc rots in the field.

Only in UK people "struggle" on 24k... Seriously

Rubbish. I wouldn't work for so little, wages in the UK are staggeringly bad.

.....in the days of the full grant there were definitely a lot of low income students,....

Indeed so. I was a student in those days, and there used to be a parental contribution, so that those who were from humble backgrounds would get the full amount and it was more likely the middle class students who could miss out because their parents wouldn't make up the difference. Reasons given: didn't like the course, or university their offspring had chosen, didn't like the boyfriend or girlfriend, weren't happy that a daughter had got married while under 21 so it was up to her and her husband to find the money. All reasons I heard at the time.

Spare your crocodile tears for people only on £24k when our dear Prime Minister can't manage on £150,000 a year, plus having a house provided for him.

@Peregrina

whereas buying a second home abroad is a 'basic right'?

Nigel Lawson, home owner in France appeared to think so, but his wailings are OK because he's a Brexiter?

Sorry, I didn't realise Nigel Lawson was posting on this thread. Point me to his post and I'll object to that too.

Unlike many on this thread, I don't like or hate people purely on the basis of their vote in the referendum. Because that would be ridiculous.

because British people won't do it. If you don't have the imported workers, the fruits etc rots in the field

Why are some so quick to assume British people won't do it? When the furlough scheme ends, we will absolutely need those jobs

Hong Kong is not in the EU

It is unlikely anyone would find immigration problematic as long as it is properly managed and controlled

The actual problem is the companies have to fly in people from EE because British people won't do it.

British people won't do it because the pay and conditions are so bad. Pickers are partially paid through the provision of group accommodation on site (which is why the wage ends up being below NMW) - what use is that to a UK worker trying to support their family and pay rent? Farmers don't want to pay proper wages to people who are living in their own homes.

Why are some so quick to assume British people won't do it? When the furlough scheme ends, we will absolutely need those jobs

Because we already know they won't. There have been loads of attempts to get British people to do it, they wont. They won't accept the low wage and hard work. But they can't be paid more because they also won't accept paying more for the fruit.

I haven't seen any people on this thread saying they hate anyone. They may well hate the hypocrisy displayed by people like leading Brexiters who have claimed EU passports or cleared out of the country.

It is absolutely not progressive to have a sector that gets away with paying such low wages UK people can't survive on them, and then fly poor people in from abroad to take the jobs because they will accept the appalling pay after the farmer has deducted accommodation.

Brits have to start making their own cool stuff again. Screw this basic income shit that’s on the cards. People in the uk need to realise there’s now a massive gap in the market, being the stuff you can’t order from abroad anymore. When life gives you lemons....

It's not just that Britons won't do the work, a lot physically can't as a result of being an aging society.

It is absolutely not progressive to have a sector that gets away with paying such low wages UK people can't survive on them, and then fly poor people in from abroad to take the jobs because they will accept the appalling pay after the farmer has deducted accommodation

Of course it isn't. But when you keep demanding your food to get cheaper and cheaper, relatively, what do you think is going to happen?

Just to pick up on this - "Farmers don't want to pay proper wages to people who are living in their own homes."

A great many farmers have their hands tied by supermarket supply contracts - they don't get to negotiate a fair price, in fact the contract is presented as a take it or leave it. Supermarkets want cheap supply.

If we are going to pay decent wages for picking fruit and veg then consumers need to be prepared to pay more.

(I'm not a farmer so no vested interest).

Regarding fruit picking I read something last year that said that the farmers prefer EE workers over British because there is a degree of skill / speed required to fruit picking also they can engage on less favourable terms and make more profit using EE staff.

UK applicants were turned down last year. That's why the government is specifically allowing 30,000 migrants to come and pick our fruit this year. www.gov.uk/government/news/up-to-30000-workers-to-help-reap-2021-harvest--2

They are looking into automation for the future. Apparently.

Life does not give you lemons in the UK - turnips maybe. Hence the delights of war time recipes such as Lord Woolton's Pie. Coronation chicken was invented for the Coronation because chicken was a bit of a luxury then.

@rukaya,

It is basic economics to raise the wage until people will do something, not say ‘this is the wage’ and get poor desperate people to do it under terrible conditions.

There have been loads of attempts to get British people to do it, they wont. They won't accept the low wage and hard work. But they can't be paid more because they also won't accept paying more for the fruit.

That might be true of fruit picking but in fairness, when I was a student I worked summers at a local factory through an agency. I only really got my foot in the door in the first place because I had family who worked there, and vacancies weren't advertised. There were a lot of local school leavers who were desperate for that sort of full time work but the majority of agency workers I was with were recruited from Portugal. If there was a machine breakdown meaning no work could happen, the Portugese workers were redeployed first as they had different contracts where as I got sent home early without pay. I've no idea why that was but there were no shortage of local applicants. Things like that really do annoy people.

notonthestairs good point about Supermarket contracts.

It is basic economics to raise the wage until people will do something, not say ‘this is the wage’ and get poor desperate people to do it under terrible conditions

It really isn't. It's basic economics to pay the least you can get away with.

Who is driving food prices for farmers down? It's supermarkets.

The whole economy is the problem, not consumers.

Rukaya

How can people not see that there is a problem with flying in Eastern Europeans to pick crops for under the minimum wage and thus not allowing people who would do that job here for fair pay to have gainful employment is not a problem

The actual problem is the companies have to fly in people from EE because British people won't do it. If you don't have the imported workers, the fruits etc rots in the field

This is rubbish
As a family we applied to do this type of work. Filled out the application forms. Said we didn’t need any accommodation as we lived close by and never heard anything back
Then we see the farmer telling everyone that he didn’t receive any applicants from the U.K. so had to hire in EU workers.

There were many posts on here from other people about this type of thing happening last year.

@Rukaya

It is basic economics to raise the wage until people will do something, not say ‘this is the wage’ and get poor desperate people to do it under terrible conditions

It really isn't. It's basic economics to pay the least you can get away with.

I think you've misunderstood what economics is.

What makes the farmer a profit, and "basic economics" are not the same thing.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Only in UK people "struggle" on 24k... Seriously.

Yes, when you have a family of 5, and the average income for a first time buyer in 2020 was 37k. Yes, you're right, they DO struggle!! It's incredibly difficult! But you'd probably want 'these families' to stay in rented property or social housing, or suggest that they don't have children until they can afford them 🤷‍♀️

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2020/oct/24/mortgage-first-time-property-income

And the last block of posts shows exactly why workers rights are so important.

Shame so much regulation on this derives from the EU.

We have a government that shows it prioritises the rich donor types over the working man. It's only a matter of time until workers rights are eroded.