To feel extremely depressed about how Brexit is limiting the lives we once knew.

[Persiantrio]

Presumably now, if you want to go shopping in Paris on the Eurostar, you will have to declare, queue and pay customs on any clothes / goods over a given amount at the border. How crap and inconvenient is that?

Same with any holiday purchases from anywhere in the EU? Not worth it.

Also if you order anything online that happens to come from the EU and costs over over £135, you get hit with massive customs charges of about 40%. Companies like Etsy etc are taking a massive hit as a result.

How is this “taking back control?” Its so depressing and backward. The only reason nobody is kicking off about this yet is because nobody could go anywhere anyway. People don’t realise the freedoms they had and that are now gone. What a shit and insular place to live this will be.

And I don’t wait to hear any predictable ‘vaccine nationalism’ waffle either (because that has nothing whatsoever to do with what I’m asking in this instance and we could have done exactly the same within the EU anyway).

@Notonthestairs

Just to pick up on this - "Farmers don't want to pay proper wages to people who are living in their own homes."

A great many farmers have their hands tied by supermarket supply contracts - they don't get to negotiate a fair price, in fact the contract is presented as a take it or leave it. Supermarkets want cheap supply.

If we are going to pay decent wages for picking fruit and veg then consumers need to be prepared to pay more.

(I'm not a farmer so no vested interest).

But the long term answer to this cannot be to feed the beast. Supermarkets screw farmers over - agreed. But the solution isn't just for those on each rung to screw over the next rung down.

There is a farmers union - what can be done to address the monopoly? I buy most of my fruit and veg direct from the farm (they deliver) - what are the barriers to this happening more widely? Now that imports from abroad are more expensive, this would be a good time for UK food producers to act collectively to counter the power of the supermarkets.

"Screw over the poor people at the bottom of the chain" is never an acceptable long term solution. If more people earn better wages, then more people will be able to pay more for quality food. Everything has a knock on effect.

Yes, when you have a family of 5, and the average income for a first time buyer in 2020 was 37k. Yes, you're right, they DO struggle!! It's incredibly difficult! But you'd probably want 'these families' to stay in rented property or social housing, or suggest that they don't have children until they can afford them 🤷‍♀️

Not being able to buy a house isn't struggling...

@TheReluctantPhoenix
"I am really quite comfortably off but I do know less well off people and also have something known as empathy'

"Screw over the poor people at the bottom of the chain" is never an acceptable long term solution. If more people earn better wages, then more people will be able to pay more for quality food. Everything has a knock on effect.

shame our government doesn't agree with this sentiment really isn't it!

@TheReluctantPhoenix I presume you imply that I don't.

I agree @MrsTophamHat !!

YouAreYourBestThing

(clearly not on this thread). Anyway, you have no idea about my circumstances or my husband’s. No idea whatsoever.

Yes he had to lay off many people. It was devastating. But at least he was able to give them those opportunities in the first place. He did his best.

He came here as a child from a war-town country with an injury leading to a disability that meant he couldn’t walk properly. He spent months in and out of hospital as a child having surgery for this. His father became mentally ill from the trauma of displacement and died. He has experienced poverty and racism. But he got to uni somehow and never looked back. In the last 25 years he has created thousands of jobs in the U.K. economy. None of these are MW jobs, it isn’t that type of industry because it’s IT- related. As for my background, I don’t even want to get into it because it’s nobody’s business, but you have no idea. And as for the Paris thing, what is the difference in going to Paris or Edinburgh, for instance? What is the actual difference? Edinburgh takes longer on a train and any trip anywhere is as expensive as you make it. Obviously! I could enjoy the Paris flea markets for all you know. I have already stated, I don’t go to Paris to buy designer stuff and if I wanted that I’d get it in down the road in London or online. Who knows what you might end up buying or not buying on any trip anywhere? The point is, the customs charges are now in effect where previously they were not. That is what the thread is about. Try reading it. Blimey.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Yes, when you have a family of 5, and the average income for a first time buyer in 2020 was 37k. Yes, you're right, they DO struggle!! It's incredibly difficult! But you'd probably want 'these families' to stay in rented property or social housing, or suggest that they don't have children until they can afford them 🤷‍♀️

Not being able to buy a house isn't struggling...

They still have to pay rent!! And rent is often (usually) much higher than the cost of a mortgage...only they can't get a mortgage!

So when they are paying that extortionate rent (a 3-bed rent where I live, just outside Manchester, would set you back over a thousand pounds a month in even one of the less sort after parts of town!) they can't save up the money they need for a mortgage. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

It's a Catch-22.

@Persiantrio

YouAreYourBestThing

(clearly not on this thread). Anyway, you have no idea about my circumstances or my husband’s. No idea whatsoever.

Yes he had to lay off many people. It was devastating. But at least he was able to give them those opportunities in the first place. He did his best.

He came here as a child from a war-town country with an injury leading to a disability that meant he couldn’t walk properly. He spent months in and out of hospital as a child having surgery for this. His father became mentally ill from the trauma of displacement and died. He has experienced poverty and racism. But he got to uni somehow and never looked back. In the last 25 years he has created thousands of jobs in the U.K. economy. None of these are MW jobs, it isn’t that type of industry because it’s IT- related. As for my background, I don’t even want to get into it because it’s nobody’s business, but you have no idea. And as for the Paris thing, what is the difference in going to Paris or Edinburgh, for instance? What is the actual difference? Edinburgh takes longer on a train and any trip anywhere is as expensive as you make it. Obviously! I could enjoy the Paris flea markets for all you know. I have already stated, I don’t go to Paris to buy designer stuff and if I wanted that I’d get it in down the road in London or online. Who knows what you might end up buying or not buying on any trip anywhere? The point is, the customs charges are now in effect where previously they were not. That is what the thread is about. Try reading it. Blimey.

As you can see...I am on this thread 🤷‍♀️

No. I am not being deliberately obtuse @YouAreYourBestThing

It's not "being deliberately obtuse" to point out that not being able to buy a house is not struggling.

@Persiantrio

YouAreYourBestThing

(clearly not on this thread). Anyway, you have no idea about my circumstances or my husband’s. No idea whatsoever.

Yes he had to lay off many people. It was devastating. But at least he was able to give them those opportunities in the first place. He did his best.

He came here as a child from a war-town country with an injury leading to a disability that meant he couldn’t walk properly. He spent months in and out of hospital as a child having surgery for this. His father became mentally ill from the trauma of displacement and died. He has experienced poverty and racism. But he got to uni somehow and never looked back. In the last 25 years he has created thousands of jobs in the U.K. economy. None of these are MW jobs, it isn’t that type of industry because it’s IT- related. As for my background, I don’t even want to get into it because it’s nobody’s business, but you have no idea. And as for the Paris thing, what is the difference in going to Paris or Edinburgh, for instance? What is the actual difference? Edinburgh takes longer on a train and any trip anywhere is as expensive as you make it. Obviously! I could enjoy the Paris flea markets for all you know. I have already stated, I don’t go to Paris to buy designer stuff and if I wanted that I’d get it in down the road in London or online. Who knows what you might end up buying or not buying on any trip anywhere? The point is, the customs charges are now in effect where previously they were not. That is what the thread is about. Try reading it. Blimey.

Well the only difference is that it's far easier to shop in Edinburgh now than it is in Paris. But both are beautiful, both have fantastic things to see and do, both can be reached on the train. So taking your example of wanting a weekend break to go shopping, I really don't see why Edinburgh would be in any way worse than Paris.

If you want to go to Paris or wherever specifically to experience That Particular Place, then fair enough, but if your purpose is shopping and dinner then going to France is just deliberately, unnecessarily making life harder for yourself and then moaning about it.

I was devastated about Brexit but I'm going to live as best I can according to the circumstances I find myself in.

There have been loads of attempts to get British people to do it, they wont. They won't accept the low wage and hard work

Circumstances change. Some who are facing unemployment due to lockdown have taken up jobs as Deliveroo riders, for example

@mustlovegin

There have been loads of attempts to get British people to do it, they wont. They won't accept the low wage and hard work

Circumstances change. Some who are facing unemployment due to lockdown have taken up jobs as Deliveroo riders, for example

They have applied, the farmers don't want them.

This thread is mental, frankly. Say what you like, but the trains are such that if you happen to live in London, it is easier and quicker to get to Paris than say, eg. Exeter (which takes 3.5 hours even on a direct train, or at least it did last time I tried to get there).

If I said I sometimes went to Leeds on the train, people wouldn’t be ranting on about “expensive shopping trips to Leeds” would they? But for all they know, that could have cost over £100 return on the train, £100s in a boutique hotel and I could have gone in a bender in Harvey Nichols! As I said, any trip is as expensive as you decide to make it so nobody needs to jump to conclusions about anything.

Persiantrio people just can't bear anyone complaining about Brexit, no matter how valid the complaint is.

Some of the EU workers come over for part of the year, move locations and then return home where their money is worth more than it is in the UK. Before these workers were available the work was done by local women for luxuries back in the day when they were SAHM. It's not full time employment so it will only suit those who can live on what is a nil hours job and be flexible where they live and work.

We heard a lot about the fishing industry and fishing waters but due to customs issues meaning fish isn't getting to the Eu customer in time the trade is going elsewhere.

There are also complaints from manufacturers who cannot import parts or materials they need to complete goods in the UK. I think the average voter only knew part of what was involved. Only the vote was 52:48 based on 72% of the population.

My criticism of Cameron remains that he should have had a second vote where people knew what they were voting for. As for Boris how many people have read his Wikipedia entry? The fact that we have also had the pandemic will in itself cause job losses and the strains caused by Brexit add to it. We live in a global world so staying in the EU was important. What do I know though, went to work at 17 for 50 years, paid my taxes and NI, no university degree for me.

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

I don't think it's about clobbering the people at the bottom. I think food prices have been kept artificially low and consumers have got used to that and won't pay more. We spend 30% less on food than we did in the 1950's. The competition between supermarkets are a big driver in this although I'm sure it's more complex than simply big bad supermarkets.

The NFU have campaigned about this and food standards for years. When push comes to shove we aren't prepared to pay more, change our shopping habits and farmers need to sell.

If we were able to reduce housing costs then people might be prepared and able to pay more for their food. But i can't imagine our current government will want to tackle this.

@RobboCop

'Lives' not 'thieves' FFS! I wasn't making a far right statement!

😂😂😂 That genuinely made me laugh

@Felifox et al,

I struggle to believe that SAHM did crop picking for luxuries. Do you have any evidence for this?

It is funny that exploitation of Eastern Europeans is considered a benefit of EU membership, but exploitation of anyone else post Brexit is ‘a race to the bottom’.

How do you manage this Janus-like thinking without cognitive dissonance?!

Before these workers were available the work was done by local women for luxuries back in the day when they were SAHM. It's not full time employment so it will only suit those who can live on what is a nil hours job and be flexible where they live and work.

What twaddle. It was done by lots of women and their children to put food on their table. If you have been out on the fields potato picking you will know that pre-automation, women got up at five with their pre-school children and say on a rickety old lorry with a canvas cover to pick from 7am to abut 6pm, arriving home covered in mud and badly sunburned or soaked through. There was nothing luxurious about it: It was spud picking or no school shoes. It was poorly paid per sack load and the older children helped during holidays. It certainly wasn't Romanians keeping wages down. We did it from age thirteen without an adult.

People from the East End used to travel to the hop fields to pick - again not about luxury but an escape from slum life.

Persiantrio

I think most people don’t go shopping in Edinburgh or Leeds if they don’t live near Edinburgh or Leeds.

[quote Treacletoots]^^@littlemissfoodlover

'Just like I'm sure many people who voted
For brexit would consider remainers actions to be stupid. I don't understand why everybody is always so vile about any opinions that don't match their own'

The issue isn't your opinion differing from mine, it's that your opinion led to actions, which had consequences that distinctly impacted on basic rights I and my family used to have, but no longer do.

Buying a holiday home / retirement home in France, for example.

Taking the family dog on holiday

My daughter being able to study in another European country using the Erasmus scheme

Being able to buy things from the UK without facing a huge customs charge

Just because some of these don't affect you, doesn't mean you had the right to take them away from somebody else. That's not how a free country is supposed to work.[/quote]
So your saying that staying in the EU has no consequences for anyone? What about our basic right to democracy? Strangely enough, I don't think that airheads shopping in Europe and the wealthy buying second homes was a priority for many people when deciding how to vote.

I accept that there are good arguments for and against staying in the EU, but you need to realise that what is important to you, isn't necessarily a priority for others.

Some of the EU workers come over for part of the year, move locations and then return home where their money is worth more than it is in the UK. Before these workers were available the work was done by local women for luxuries back in the day when they were SAHM. It's not full time employment so it will only suit those who can live on what is a nil hours job and be flexible where they live and work

SAHM’s working fruit and veg picking for luxuries. Where did you read that?

As a family we used to do it because we got to go to the countryside for a few weeks, work and it was the closest thing we got to being on holiday.
I don’t think there were any SAHM’s doing it to make pin money to afford luxuries. It was extended families stuffed into caravans and you were paid by the weight of what you picked as a family so children were “employed” as well

It stopped when we entered the EU and they were bringing gangs over for a cheaper rate and so didn’t want the British workers.