To feel extremely depressed about how Brexit is limiting the lives we once knew.

[Persiantrio]

Presumably now, if you want to go shopping in Paris on the Eurostar, you will have to declare, queue and pay customs on any clothes / goods over a given amount at the border. How crap and inconvenient is that?

Same with any holiday purchases from anywhere in the EU? Not worth it.

Also if you order anything online that happens to come from the EU and costs over over £135, you get hit with massive customs charges of about 40%. Companies like Etsy etc are taking a massive hit as a result.

How is this “taking back control?” Its so depressing and backward. The only reason nobody is kicking off about this yet is because nobody could go anywhere anyway. People don’t realise the freedoms they had and that are now gone. What a shit and insular place to live this will be.

And I don’t wait to hear any predictable ‘vaccine nationalism’ waffle either (because that has nothing whatsoever to do with what I’m asking in this instance and we could have done exactly the same within the EU anyway).

@Coconut2010 - exactly, it was about the narrative of how we think of ourselves rather than the reality of how we live our lives.

I feel bad for the fishermen, but there are about 12k fishermen. So much smaller than other industries - like the sme’s that contribute to the economy a lot but are buggered by Brexit. We don’t eat a lot of the fish from our waters, and most of the UK fishing rights / vessels were sold on to EU holders any way.

So the idea that it was all about the rights of plucky Scottish fishermen and British Cod was always bollocks.

I think a large proportion of Brexit voters are working class. Things like Erasmus, aupairs , diamonds in Amsterdam and shopping in paris aren't really the top of the agenda. The freedom of movement of unskilled labour from Eastern Europe was the problem as there was more competition for jobs and depression of wages . If the UK could have come to some sort of arrangement around freedom of movement we would have stayed.

When we are allowed to travel to Europe again we will do what we have always done on return. Walk through the red channel if you have something to declare and pay the duty. Walk through the green channel if you have a few cheap souvenirs which are under the limit. No extra form filling or queues. Simples.

I import a lot of stuff from the USA and most packages attract duty.

But what have we gained?

Sure evelyn - but what jobs are available to these people now that were not available pre-Brexit. Do we think they’re wages are going to rise? Are you kidding me?

There are less jobs overall. My DH is just one individual who has had to let hundreds go, many of whom have been with him 15 years. Real people. Real jobs.

I ask again - what is the benefit of Brexit?

their wages, excuse me.

Op, I am imagining you as a cast member of Made In Chelsea.

I am imagining you as a cast member of Made In Chelsea

Even that lot do not seem to be so out of touch with reality

Of for gods sake just take the tags off.

I you are bringing a briefcase filled with diamonds then yes you may want to declare that but for personal who is going to know.

Losing Erasmus doesn’t hurt the middle class kids. They will go travelling anyway. It hurts the kids who would never have dreamed of such opportunities, let alone of having a grant to help them benefit from them.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I think OP you are missing the point. Millions of people in the UK are not affluent enough to experience much of the freedom/travel/shopping opportunities. They live in communities where being part of the EU has only brought a massive oversupply of labour and as a result, local labour markets have been undercut on wages by people willing to work a few years & live in overcrowded or poor conditions because they can take their earnings home and get a lot more for them in a cheaper European country.

Like a lot of globalisation, the better off tend to reap many of the rewards but there ARE downsides and they can be concentrated in poorer communities.

I voted against brexit but I can understand why in some parts of the country they really could not see much benefit accruing in their own communities.

Another view:

“The Office of National Statistics says that while the numbers of EU workers in Britain has risen by 700,000 since 2013, they are outnumbered by the extra one million Britons who have gone into employment in the same period. The number of British citizens working in the UK labour force is now at the near-record level of 28 million. That compares with 3 million foreign nationals

As the economist Jonathan Portes has pointed out, it is not a zero-sum game in which there are only a fixed number of jobs to go round: “It’s true that, if an immigrant takes a job, then a British worker can’t take that job – but it doesn’t mean he or she won’t find another one that may have been created, directly or indirectly, as a result of immigration.”

Several studies have shown a small negative effect of migration on the wages of low-skilled workers in certain sectors in certain parts of the country, particularly care workers, shop assistants, and restaurant and bar workers. The effect has been measured at less than 1% over a period of eight years.

The LSE’s Jonathan Wadsworth said: “The bottom line, which may surprise many people, is that EU immigration has not harmed the pay, jobs or public services enjoyed by Britons. In fact, for the most part it has likely made us better off.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/reality-check-are-eu-migrants-really-taking-british-jobs

How is this “taking back control?

Why don't you read some books on sovereignty OP? You will benefit from learning about these issues

@Persiantrio

So you’ve never been on holiday to a European country and bought souvenirs or whatever?

Yep, many times pre EU. Never had a problem bringing in souvenirs as we knew the limits so just walked through the green door at customs. There was a life before the EU and free movement etc.

I agree OP. It will be interesting when borders reopen and the non-EU airport queues in holiday destinations become reality. It’s also far, far cheaper for me to go to Paris on the Eurostar than go pretty much anywhere in the U.K. via train as somebody else said upthread.

@evelynina that was the story told, about wage depression - but it’s not true. Wages are only depressed for the very very lowest wages - Ie people below minimum wage, on piece work or picking fruit etc.

The places that have very few immigrants are the ones that voted for Brexit. It’s the myth of the immigrant rather than the reality.

And for all people bash London etc, there are 10m people in the Greater London area, so a decent chunk of the UK population. It’s not a minor faction. Not related to what you said but a few people have been London bashing.

I live in one of the Shires where there were lots of EU immigrants working in tourism, retail, health and social care. COVID has messed with the first two but the second two are really going to (are already) suffering without the EU labour. There aren’t enough people willing to do the jobs in social care etc for the salaries offered. That’s not the fault of a polish woman willing to work for nothing, it’s the fault of the government not being willing to fund social care.

Do standard holiday makers pop to the vineyard and order a few crates to ship back? Do they??

@tangerinelollipop sovereignty is not standing alone in the corner.

Entering into trade agreements limits sovereignty. Doing business with other countries under any framework is an exercise or limitation of sovereignty depending on how you look at it.

People who say ‘sovereignty’ as the rationale have been sold a crock of shit and told its gold. We were powerful within Europe. We have less power now.

@LemonSwan taking the tags off is tax evasion.

@Hoorayforsunshine

Totallyfedup1979 - right, so you are well off enough not to be affected. Directly, at least. What is your point exactly?

My point is in response to the op, where it was implied that I’m yet to find out about this change and at some point we’ll all be upset because of it...that actually that’s simply not the case.

And you don’t have to be wealthy to travel long haul.

@tangerinelollipop there is not one reality. The OP has her reality, and you have yours.

Both equally valid, but different. The OP has stated that her husband has had to lay off 300 people because of Brexit. And people are instead focussing on shopping trips to Paris.

One of those things is a lot more interesting to me than the other - and has a lot more impact on 300 people’s realities rather than just yours or the OP’s.

@Totallyfedup1979 - no, but it helps. For many people, long haul travel signifies being wealthy. People tend to interpret wealth as simply meaning having more than they do.

For example, I don’t think an au pair is a wealthy person thing, because I can afford one but I can’t afford a nanny so I think of that as a wealthy person thing. It’s a bit relative.

I think it is fairly undisputed that the Brexit impact eg in food prices and insecurity has yet to hit. I don’t think the OP’s comment was limited to people experiencing travel difficulties but people discovering all these issues that previously they hadn’t encountered or expected.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland Sadly the turkeys have voted for Christmas, the working class will be the one losing out in the end. They may no longer complain about their wages being slightly undercut (for some) by cheap EU labour. However job losses (due to lower economic growth and industries relocating) whilst facing inflation will be a bigger issue.

@ScoobySnacker the average holiday maker probably doesn’t send some crates of wine back, no.

But they probably use their phone - and won’t be able to rely on roaming caps reliably into the future.

You don’t have to look that far for an impact. You might not care about it, or think it’s a big deal but we thought the days of nasty phone bills when home were over.

Not being able to pack a bacon sarnie for the ferry trip over. Minor inconveniences, but what has been gained?

The OP has stated that her husband has had to lay off 300 people because of Brexit

I remember everything very well. And someone in that position cannot describe herself as being 'hard up' and keep throwing tantrums and asking for sympathy (especially when we are in the middle of a pandemic and people are dying). It's obscene really

[quote Hoorayforsunshine]@Totallyfedup1979 - no, but it helps. For many people, long haul travel signifies being wealthy. People tend to interpret wealth as simply meaning having more than they do.

For example, I don’t think an au pair is a wealthy person thing, because I can afford one but I can’t afford a nanny so I think of that as a wealthy person thing. It’s a bit relative.

I think it is fairly undisputed that the Brexit impact eg in food prices and insecurity has yet to hit. I don’t think the OP’s comment was limited to people experiencing travel difficulties but people discovering all these issues that previously they hadn’t encountered or expected.[/quote]
I recently had £2000 to spend on a family vacation.

My choice - a week on a Greek Island; a week in Turkey or a week at Disney’s Animal Kingdom Lodge Orlando, including indirect flights and car hire. It was buy 4 nights get 3 free.

Guess where we went and we got a free upgrade to a Savannah room! Just keep looking out for those bargains!