To feel extremely depressed about how Brexit is limiting the lives we once knew.

[Persiantrio]

Presumably now, if you want to go shopping in Paris on the Eurostar, you will have to declare, queue and pay customs on any clothes / goods over a given amount at the border. How crap and inconvenient is that?

Same with any holiday purchases from anywhere in the EU? Not worth it.

Also if you order anything online that happens to come from the EU and costs over over £135, you get hit with massive customs charges of about 40%. Companies like Etsy etc are taking a massive hit as a result.

How is this “taking back control?” Its so depressing and backward. The only reason nobody is kicking off about this yet is because nobody could go anywhere anyway. People don’t realise the freedoms they had and that are now gone. What a shit and insular place to live this will be.

And I don’t wait to hear any predictable ‘vaccine nationalism’ waffle either (because that has nothing whatsoever to do with what I’m asking in this instance and we could have done exactly the same within the EU anyway).

@TheyWentToSeaInASieve we were able to secure the stock of AZ because of the collaboration of government, Oxford university and a private company. The investment agreement secured the stocks. It had nothing to do with us being out of Europe and we would have been in the same position still in the EU.

The fact that we have brilliant research institutions is in part thanks to the collaboration of scientists and the availability of research grants etc across the EU. Academia and research are areas that are suffering and will suffer because of Brexit.

For the next pandemic, or the one in 10 years time, our fine institutions may not be so well placed. We’ve been lucky when it came to the vaccine that so much work had already been done.

The vaccine or vaccine rollout is emphatically not a Brexit dividend.

If I don't want to pay tax on goods I don't buy them

This. Spot on. Specially if it's Murano glass or overpriced £££ art

@ScarletZebra

Millions of people in the UK are not affluent enough to experience much of the freedom/travel/shopping opportunities. They live in communities where being part of the EU has only brought a massive oversupply of labour and as a result, local labour markets have been undercut on wages by people willing to work a few years & live in overcrowded or poor conditions because they can take their earnings home and get a lot more for them in a cheaper European country.

I think this bears saying again for the hard of understanding.

If you/your relatives/friends have been passed over for employment in favour of someone whose first language is not English, maybe time to ask yourself why.

If you can pop off to Paris for shopping trips I’m sure you can afford to pay customs charges.

I could not agree more with you OP. What we have lost will become even more apparent once the COVID distraction is over. People who think they won’t be impacted are fooling themselves as they will at least suffer from significant inflation (eg food prices, which has already started), job losses, reduced opportunities for their children etc
We are done with this country and will be moving soon to the EU, along with the huge taxes we used to pay (whilst not using free resources eg state schools and NHS). But don’t worry everything will be fine we will be replaced by immigrants from third world countries

YANBU. I am so angry that Brexit happened.

What pisses me off the most is that so few were genuinely bothered b6 the EU before 2016. Hardly anyone talked about it unless bloody Johnson had written one of his stupid col7mns. How easily Farage, Banks, Cummings et el whipped up a storm

YES! No one talked about the EU until the likes of Farage kept banging on about it, and (paid) trolls started posting online about it constantly, on every site, everywhere. Suddenly, thanks to the Tories/Cameron it became this huge, urgent thing in a REALLY short space of time, people didn't have time to research what it really meant, it was like a war, talked of in warlike terms (don't get me started on the stupid Brexit museum!!) and toxic. We know the majority of people didn't know what they were voting for, judging from the numbers of people google what is the EU the day after the vote!

@tangerinelollipop

If I don't want to pay tax on goods I don't buy them

This. Spot on. Specially if it's Murano glass or overpriced £££ art

But you’ll be paying it indirectly for all imports, including your supermarket shop. There may be no tariffs (for now) but there are other, non tariff extras, such as customs handling and the cost of supplying extra certification, that get added to the cost of imported items.

Not just rich Londoner who suffers.

The old granny who needs personal care has lost her Polish carer. Social care is really stuffed.

Hospitality has suffered in COVID but so many in tourism / hospitality were EU workers and masses have gone home - so it has cost less in furlough than it would have for Uk employees.

I’m not rich enough for a nanny. I was thinking that an au pair would be perfect because I need about 20 hours childcare around nursery times for me to be able to do my job and pay the mortgage, and I’m lucky enough to have a spare room and can afford £120 to give an au pair a week but not £300 for a nanny.

Except no more au pairs because of Brexit.

@Miljea

Now we have moved on from the White Heat of Brexit, I understand some stuff more.

I am a committed Remainer; but I do understand that many of the obvious losses people like me feel mean nothing to many, many Leavers.

Up front, buying stuff from the EU has become so fraught with hidden, unknown costs, I'm not buying (and, to my surprise, 😉 Britain doesn't appear to make these things); but, it's quite possible many Leavers neither had the cash or interest in buying such stuff.

Our retirement plans, a villa in Spain, are shot out of the water; however, I imagine most Brexiters had never imagined the possibility. They correctly say they'll still get their week on the Med, though I doubt many will be able to afford it.

My DC can't do Erasmus (and we aren't rich enough to afford Turing); but I guess the possibility of a child doing that wasn't even a consideration for many Brexiter voters.

Your average Brexiter probably had zero interest in the importance of international ties in the worlds of science and research.

Of course, I can plainly see the lies and manipulation that caused people to vote that way. I guess the vast majority had not the faintest concept of how the EU worked (which would explain why the most googled term on June 24th 2016 was 'what is the EU?').

Educated, reasonably well off people like us will, one way or another, weather the oncoming storm.

But my sympathy for the fate of the Tory, Brexiter voter is all but gone.

I feel my life is diminished by Brexit, but the effect is more cultural than financial. Though that hasn't helped. I suspect that once the smokescreen of Covid clears, some nasty realities will dawn. Tho many will take longer than your average shell-fisherman.

HOWEVER, and here's a thing: I actually think that, in terms of maturity, Britain -certainly England- kind of needs the kicking that's coming its way. We need to learn our place in the world. We have openly, democratically and loudly chosen to diminish our influence in the world. We had a bloody good innings, sitting at many top tables we'd long since lost our right to sit at.

But maybe we might, as a country, due to Brexit, along with many other missteps- grow up from our little Englander, flag waving, Rule Britannia mentality.

This spanking may well yet do us good.

Luckily in my family we all hold Antipodean passports... 😂

Its people with attitudes like this that were the cause of Brexit and why Brexiteers will never back down. You caused your own fate with your arrogance and sneering.

It’s about freedoms being curtailed, and for what exactly?
Travel and ease of movement to our nearest neighbours, that a high proportion of the population enjoyed previously, without having to think too hard about it, has become more difficult and costly. It won’t be fully realised until travel can resume.

I haven’t been to Europe for about 20 years. I tend to travel long haul, so I’m used to paying customs fees or watching what I spend to avoid customs charges. Makes no difference to me to be fair.

Would love to set up a poll on how often the MN audience buys diamonds when on holiday.

Never
Once
Sometimes
Often
Always

Actually no need to bother, I think we can anticipate the outcome...

It wasn’t me who mentioned anything about Murano glass or diamonds. That was other posters. People are just using those as examples fgs. This is exactly what I mean about focusing on details as a distraction to obscure the overall issue.

Totallyfedup1979 - right, so you are well off enough not to be affected. Directly, at least. What is your point exactly?

This is exactly what I mean about focusing on details as a distraction to obscure the overall issue.

Yep - see also Blue Passports and a bus

I have a VERY lucrative eBay side gig and my sales to Europe have dropped off a cliff due to additional taxes, so yes I’m pissed about it.

[quote Unsure33]@adrianmolesmole

What a crass comment to make . The pandemic has caused job losses and debt which is the last thing any governments would want .

And covid deaths are not lucky .

You are disgusting .[/quote]
You have problems with comprehension, don't you?

I'm saying the TORIES are lucky. They will cover up the brexit impact with the pandemic impact. And people will believe them But whatever.

@Hoorayforsunshine I thought you were
All the politics have been obsessed about during the 4 years negotiation period is fishing rights (without looking at the practicalities, therefore effectively screwing them up), the Northern Ireland issue and avoiding congestion in Dover. Other issues that are very relevant for the day to day life have been swiped under the carpet hence all the inconveniences we will continue to gradually experience.

Rich people who want to live, study or retire to the EU will probably still be able to as well. People from working class backgrounds who want to do the same will mostly find it much more difficult or outright impossible unless they have the magical second passport (which I don't).

For instance. I don’t drink. But nor do I live in a box, so I could quite imagine that some people, when they’re on holiday, might discover a certain wine in a vineyard or something like that, and decide to get a few crates shipped back. No it’s not essential, but it’s fun and you’re on holiday, so why not if that’s what people enjoy? Now they won’t be able to do this nearly as easily because of customs costs. Yes, they can go to a wine shop here (before some genius feels the need to point this out), but this is another example of how we have less options than we used to.

We go to Paris once a year - for culture and restaurants.

There are lots of clothes shops in the UK.

“I have a VERY lucrative eBay side gig and my sales to Europe have dropped off a cliff due to additional taxes, so yes I’m pissed about it.”

I’m very sorry to hear this. This is happening millions of times over across the U.K. and the EU.

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady

1st post OP? You wouldn't happen to have a thing for importing expensive art and italian glass vases would you?

😂😂😂

“There are lots of clothes shops in the UK.”

Yes why go anywhere or do anything when we can do it in the U.K.? Why learn any other languages - we’ve got our own language in the U.K.? Why go on a city break elsewhere - we’ve got our own cities in the U.K! Sorted then. Nobody will ever know the difference. Thanks!