Can't do woman talk? Am I broken?

[viixie]

Okay so I'm a grown woman but I just find small talk boring I've never felt like I've fit in.

I've just been for a walk with some female friends and I've always felt like I've never fit in with females. I've always felt like the odd one out. They will chat and gossip about people and work and their lives etc and I don't talk as much. I have always been the quieter one but I find this kind of small talk boring. I feel like I'm there because I have to be to try and seem normal rather than to enjoy myself. It's an effort for me to try and fit in in this conversation. I am aware they are probably doing 70% of the chat and I'm meeting them back with 30% if you see what I mean. If I'm in a group of people I will let the others do most of the talking, I find it draining and uninteresting. Of course I pretend to be interested and try to involve myself but inside I find it draining. I'd rather be at home, I much prefer one on one company where I will then feel comfortable being myself and having a chat. I feel like I never really let anyone know or see the real me unless it's someone close like my partner or close family. I feel I am never fully relaxed or myself with anyone else.

Am I broken? Anyone else?

interesting conversationalists

Ok..I think this sounds a bit snobby

What on earth is snobby about liking to have interesting conversations with people? Or about preferring to spend time with people who like to talk about interesting stuff? Why wouldn't anyone prefer to?

I think some people here don’t understand the term “misogynistic. I think you might be one of them.

OP, you’re being pretty melodramatic with the whole ‘Am I broken’ thing. You know you’re not. You just aren’t enjoying small talk. I mean this in the nicest possible way but I think you need to take some responsibility here. You can’t spend time with people over and over again, contributing very little, and then complain that they haven’t been very interesting. You haven’t been very interesting either. These women aren’t here to entertain you and they probably find you bloody hard work sometimes.

Try bringing up topics that you find interesting. If they keep knocking you back then, fair enough, admit defeat and either find your people or accept you prefer your own company.

I'm reminded of discussing how what some people call BS small talk, others call building a relationship.

I've definitely seen guys do the same thing, especially since my spouse, our lodger, and a friend all work at the same place so now when they're all together, it's a torrent of he said, she did, do you think he or talking about if they've seen X trailer or seen Y game was on sale. I do think there are likely differences with gendered socialization - but I think that same socialization can make when men do it seem less trivial than when women do it.

It's a skill I struggle with - not with the being interested part these days, but I overthink and rehearse in my head too much of what I want to say with people I don't know well so I end up out of the conversation (I'm the master of the post-meeting email of things I didn't get the nerve to say). I do agree with others that it may be the people you're around - I've previously had a few people who seemed to stuck on their pet topics and it is draining. Finding people you want to build relationships with makes it easier, it's easier to be interested in people you find interesting even when it's the same type of chat.

I don’t understand how people talking about their lives, families, work or careers is small talk? Small talk is something that you normally do with people who you’ve met for the first time or only a couple of times and don’t really know them that well yet or some colleagues. Small talk would be something like discussing the weather, how you got there, where you live etc.

You describe this group as friends of yours that you meet up regularly - so surely you’re beyond the “small talk” phase?

Do you mean you find what they talk about superficial or uninteresting? If so, then just find other friends. Maybe you just have nothing in common to talk about. Women aren’t two-dimensional nor are they less capable of intelligent or deep conversation than men. In my group of friends we discuss politics, literature, philosophy, films but also chat about clothes, men and rubbish TV. It’s not one or the other.

Nor do I think introverts are anymore deep or enlightened or intelligent than extroverts. Not at all. And not being a talker doesn’t mean you’re a good listener. The art of good conversation should be like a tennis match. A back and forth rally where you are batting things back to each other. A good listener isn’t just someone who’s quiet and lets people talk. If you’re hearing but not actually listening or making appropriate responses and interjections in response, you’re not a good listener.

Besides, as others have said, what’s to stop you starting a new topic of conversation?

I still feel very different from a lot of people, less constrained by the world around me maybe as I’ve lived in different countries, been to university (which was less common a few decades ago) and had a lot of very good therapy to straighten me out. I’m also chronically ill and had a few major surgeries. All of this makes a massive difference to how I interact with people: Personal life experience.

I have a couple of friends, who haven’t been through any of this. Both parents still alive when I lost one as a child. Pretty charmed lives, get on ok with siblings and so forth. They cannot begin to comprehend my life or interact with me in a way that others with my life experience can.... In the same way as I can’t be in a conversation for hours about football. I have a couple of other friends, who’ve been through things, one has lived abroad and so forth and therefore I can talk about things with them. One is good at giving advice etc and I’d go to her and have gone to her for emotional support cos she gives it to me straight... same as I do with her.

The friends with little shared experience despite being of a similar age find everything, even tiny things are a big deal because they’re going through them for the first time when I went through them years ago. And because of my health, I am much more que sera. They need far more reassurance and support that I ever needed. It’s just different personalities and life experiences. I can support them but when I’ve been through the same, I haven’t been able to lean on them for support. They have no concept or capacity to comprehend as in reality we are in very different stages in our lives.

I’m happy to listen to my friends talking about their kids but don’t feel the need to do the same so I do tend to try and come up with something to say because for them it is their world and if I want to stay friends with them, which I do. So I do find I’ve had to train myself to find the right words or noises I’m supposed to make because the sort of chat I like is politics, current affairs, the economy. So they tend to talk a lot more than me. And that’s fine. We’re all just muddling along after all.

Is it me or is there a bit of a rash of introverts-unite type threads around at the moment?

Grendalsmum
And does that matter? As I said we are all just muddling through. I’m a bit of an introvert, yes.

Oh and to add to my comment above, I find it difficult to remember to ask people how they are or how their families are. I just don’t work in that way. It’s not because I don’t care either. It’s just that bit of small talk is missing in my world and was growing up. I never got to learn or emulate it.

I can relate to this!

I used to read summaries of popular tv shows and sport so I could contribute a bit to the conversations even though I don't really watch tv or sport. It worked well. I was able to fit in better which led to other conversations about thing I was interested in.

@Sn0tnose
Misogyny means hatred of women (Cambridge dictionary).
Saying that women as a group often have different types of conversation to men isn’t the same as saying you hate women.

I feel this way. I have a small handful of friends. Probably less than a handful. I'm definitely not at the top of their friendship list I'm sure. I have lost more friends over the years than I care to recall. I'm awful at keeping them. I find it very hard not to lean on them too much, be too honest and overshadow, maybe too bitchy. Deep insecurity really if I'm being honest. It's all very triggering. So I find it easier to withdraw and just not let myself get hurt. I stick with people who are more quirky like me.

Though the thread has now shifted to introverts vs extroverts!!

Stop derailing the bloody thread calling the OP a misogynist for gods sake. When did Mumsnet get so ducking uptight?

What on earth is snobby about liking to have interesting conversations with people?

I enjoy deep conversations too. I was referring to how the word 'conversationalist' sounds

I imagine someone a bit stiff, boastful and staged, rather than someone spontaneously speaking their mind.

@mealsonwheelz

Stop derailing the bloody thread calling the OP a misogynist for gods sake. When did Mumsnet get so ducking uptight?

I’m saying she’s NOT a misogynist.

@Coronawireless this is why I'm terrible with people, sorry. Didn't read properly and overreacted

Disclaimer - not read the whole thread.

From experience, "woman talk" seems to be gossip about other people. That is from my experience. This was in the workplace, all the education I did, and beyond. Better conversations came from people who shared a hobby or interest with me. Sharing a workplace, school run, classroom can result in superficial friendships with no real depth.

I like this quote from Eleanor Roosevelt.
“Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.”

Viixie : Do you know about Mumsnet?
How about that for a conversation starter?

I think that Eleanor Roosevelt quote has contributed to some of the hurt feelings on here. Yes it can be very lofty to have conversations about ideas but as many pp have pointed out, “people” conversations are a source of bonding, oiling the wheels, bedrock of social interaction etc etc. It’s not a signifier of stupidity.

@Wearywithteens

‘I’m quiet and hate groups of women who engage in boring shallow chit chat’ = ‘I’m superior because I don’t want engage in boring shallow chit chat with this group of women - I’m ok with men though because they don’t threaten this constructed identity of serious, thoughtful, intellectual superiority.’

Unfortunately, as above, some pp are taking umbrage at the idea of the OP, a woman, wanting to have “ideas” conversations.

The fact that you think you can replace woman talk with trivial chatter is really sad.
What do men talk about that's so interesting?

@Wearywithteens

This reminds me of the self-congratulatory thread about ‘quiet’ people the other day. What I learned from that was that quiet people silently judge and label loud, annoying, trivial, self absorbed, braying, shallow, boring extroverts but at the same time expect those same people to empathise that a ‘quiet’ person isn’t interested in them, doesn’t want to pass the time with them, finds them rather silly and will happily offload all the social spade work in a group situation to them.

Quiet people, unlike annoying loud extroverts, read ‘books’ and have ‘thoughts’. They watch the news and have ‘views’ about things. But not about low brow things like other people or, God forbid, anything on TV. No, they think about superior things like science, philosophy and the world. Annoying loud extroverts wouldn’t know about that though, they’re too busy being annoying and loud about their self-absorbed trivial non-important jibber jabber. I also learned that quiet people find it hard to make friends or be accepted in groups. I wonder why?

Op - there are good psychological, social and anthropological reasons for what you see as irrelevant gossip and small talk. I think you should find different friends who meet your specific social requirements.

This 100%. I agree there has been a lot of these kinds of posts recently.

• Plenty of people who are excellent conversationalists and confident in social situations can be natural introverts.
• Quiet and shy and introverted and socially awkward aren’t the same thing.
• Being intelligent or deep or enlightened or cultured or interesting has got fuck all to do with whether you are introverted or extroverted.
• Extroverted isn’t the same as loud nor is it synonymous with a person who is good at making conversation.
• A quiet person isn’t any better a listener than a person who loves talking.
• A good conversation should involve give and take. Not only does a good conversationalist both talk and listen well but they don’t make the other person feel uncomfortable. The best conversationalists of all will have a genuine authentic interest in the other person too. Just like most friends would.

WTF is "woman talk" though? Within the last 24 hours I've had conversations with women on matters ranging from anaesthetic methodology to sandwich fillings. I don't think all of these can be more trivial than Important Men's Conversations about golf/cycling? Which are the womanly ones so I can work out if I did them right?

@Fembot123

I’d rather eat my kidney with a spoon than talk about/watch a soap and I have like minded friends.

Looks like I've found a like minded friend.