Panicking that we cannot afford this baby and we will not cope.

[Redrosesblue]

I have just found out I'm pregnant and completly freaking out. DD has just celebrated her first birthday this week and this is a completely unplanned pregnancy.
We always planned to start TTC for DC2 when DD was at least 2 years 3 months so that by the time the baby arrived, she would definitely be entitled to her 30 free hours childcare. I earn good enough money and am the breadwinner. DH is self employed and his income has been hit hard by Covid (perfectly timed for mat leave with DD1 to start) and I ended up going back to work much earlier than planned to make sure we were okay.
There's no way we can afford double the childcare. DD will only be 1 year 8 months when this baby arrives so even if I take her out of childcare for my mat leave, she'll still be far off 3 by the time I need to go back to work which means double the childcare fees! I am terrified. We cannot afford this baby. I also suffered very badly with hyperemesis last time and I don't know how I will cope. DD is still breastfed to sleep and DH can't get her to sleep on his own. There's so many reasons why this is just not a good time! I'm so scared. I don't want to have to consider termination and never ever thought I would need to but I am so worried that there's no way we can make this work.

I'm not usually reticent to agree that termination is often best in a lot of situations, and there is no shame in it.

However, in your situation, I think you can make it work. You were planning another anyway, it's just that the childcare costs will be more all at once rather than spread out. So you won't necessarily be paying more, just paying it sooner. Some good planning can help with that.

Similarly, I wouldn't normally recommend loans, but in this case, it could work (as long as you do your homework on it properly).

Also, as your husband is a tree surgeon, could he work a Saturday and take a week day off to do childcare?

Also, tree surgeons can earn a lot of money. If he is just building his business I would imagine his earnings are going to massively increase.

I will look at the other childcare options. We probably won't have much choice but to pull DD out of nursery for my mat leave anyway though if there's a way I can then that will be great.

I am thinking about a termination. It's not just the money. That's the main part for sure but I have found this thread very helpful and can see there are options beside just paying double childcare. I might not like the options (taking DD out of her current setting, a loan etc.) But it is possible, I see that. Tight but possible. But I don't feel ready. I love my DD more than anything in the world but this year has been so incredibly hard and I was hoping for more time. I was hoping that DHs work issues would be sorted and we'd have a bit more savings behind us and DD would be older and slightly less dependent on us; she's still so very young. And I know it's not a given that I'll have HG again but I think I was counting on hopefully forgetting how awful it was by the time we were TTC or at least be ready enough in all other aspects that that would be my only stressor and I could deal with it. But I can't face the idea of it! It was honestly the worst 9 months of my life and I can't begin to imagine how in that state I can properly care for my DD whilst she's still so young.

There is exactly 18 months between my DD and DS. It was the middle of the financial crisis and we didn't have two pennies to our name. You will always cope financially somehow.

Hi OP

I really identified with your post. I am the main earner too and my OH is self-employed, earning similar to yours. Our kids are 20 months apart. I had 9 months mat leave with our second and money was horrific during that time. There was no way we could make ends meet and we were basically just stacking up debt. But the kids are 12 and 13 now and our finances are recovered so whilst it was strained at the time I'm glad we did it. When things were at their worst we took in a lodger which meant we were squished as a family but the kids didn't care and it was not forever. Is there any way you could do something like that or have OH work in a weekend job too to bring in some extra during the worst period? I'd suggest looking at the longer term rather than the shorter as it's less scary!

Don't rule out the mortgage thing. They may still be able to give you a holiday or temp switch to interest only. And you won't be penalised for asking.

Whatever you decide there should be no shame. All we can do is our best.

OP if you don’t feel ready for another then don’t have one. It’s not a selfish decision you’re putting your current DD and your own mental health first. I’m in a very similar position (but going ahead, but only because both families have been incredibly generous with time and money and we have that luxury). But taking out a loan is extremely precarious, you’ve already said your partners job has been testing due to COVID, it doesn’t seem like they’ve adapted the business to cope well during it ... what happens if for some reason it goes tits up and you’re stuck with a massive loan to pay for?

Take some time but don’t feel pressured into doing something you’re not ready to do.

He would have to start completly from scratch when we didn't need childcare anymore but very likely have no partner to start up with so in all likelihood, would never work in this field again

Which is exactly what happens to a great many women who have to stop work to look after the children because the net gain of paid work is negative.

As someone upthread says, its shocking how many families are unable to afford childcare when access to childcare provides more economically active people.

My tree surgeon works weekends and this was partly to juggle child care when his kids were small. They are no longer small but he still works weekends and not every work day. Some of his customers wanted weekday work but plenty liked weekend visits as they didn't need to take time out of work.

Would that work for him and his partner, at least for a few months until you are eligible for the 30 hours?

@Redrosesblue I really feel for you.

I’m self employed and me and DH had a serious chat about this before we started TTC. My “old” business was a bit like his - not in industry, but in that I was always working, but pay was sporadic, and averaged £1750 a month, which isn’t great. The sporadic nature meant we weren’t comfortable relying on that money, and if we didn’t include it, we couldn’t afford to TTC.

I think DH needs to look at that, whatever you decide here. I don’t say that lightly. My business is very much a part of me, I sobbed at the idea of giving it up. In the end, I took on some part time evening work, which meant I had less time to do in the job and had to prioritise the better paying, faster paid stuff; and gave myself six months to sort it out and find a business model that was more compatible with life. He’d need to do that if he wasn’t with you... we agreed I’d look for work if things weren’t looking up by month 4/5. We didn’t need to. I wasn’t wasting time before, or not putting my all in, but nothing focuses the mind like knowing this is it.

It’s absolutely your choice what you do, but I’d want to know DH was doing more than he is. He has to carry more of the financial load, especially if he’s keen for the second child.

I have a friend who has a tree surgeon partner, he’s been working as that three days, and with companies for the other two - one doing relevant work; one driving for a builders. It means he’s firmer with when people want to collect, people book more in advance and pay a deposit as they want his time and it’s limited, and if he does have a bad week with late payers, he’s got two days a week of other work that he’ll be paid for. That’s covered childcare for their two little ones. He started off in a local shop, before he found the work he preferred, and they paid him to stack shelves - he got a set amount, so if he worked hard, it didn’t take him hours - and deliver things for them if he needed extra work. He’s expecting to be able to stop the extra jobs in June, when their eldest is at school full time.

It’s not saying he can’t have his business... but he needs to make it into a business that can support his family now, like I did, or he needs to do extra work until it does.

Would you not be eligible for tax credits when you are on reduced pay due to maternity leave?

The other thing is re the HG DD will not remember if you have it this pregnancy but may well remember and be concerned if you have it when she's older. It also isn't guaranteed you will suffer this time.

Each of my pregnancy experiences has been completely different.

Your body your choice. You have to do what is right for you, your DD and DH.

Just thinking the your husbands business, do they have a Facebook/insta page for advertising?

What they need to be doing is asking their customers if they still require the wood, if so they require a 50% holding deposit and it must be collected within the next two weeks or they can deliver it to them with full payment up front.
If the customer no longer wants it then they need to be advertising the wood ASAP for fires/chimneas and it will cost x amount plus x delivery.

I can’t understand why they’re both letting stock sit there?

Also when we’ve had tree surgeons we’ve paid a job rate and it’s been one tree surgeon and a labourer and payment is on completion of the job. Your husband and his partner could maybe do with a sit down with an accountant or business coach to help them as it sounds like they’re getting stuck and tripped up on things that shouldn’t be happening when self employed.

I’d hope if they could tighten up it might ease some of the pressure you’re currently under 🤞🏻

OP, i am in another country so can't really give financial advice. The loan option sounds good and also your husband diversifying and perhaps using contracts with his clients to make sure he gets paid in reasonable periods. Second part time job?
I remember my boss saying that the greatest change in your life was the first baby, which is a total shock to the system, you don´t know what it is until you have one. But that the second was soooooooooooo much easier to muster, the change wasn´t so noticeable, you have experience, she found it much smoother. I have read great suggestions on here, the tight spot will only last a short time and I am sure will be worth it. Terminations are not an option in my mindset for these cases, but I understand for other people they are. But if this last one is not your case I am sure you will find a solution that works for you (many offered here), but you need to stop panicking and flapping around and sit down and think clearly, and Breathe. Congratulations, by the way, and hand squeeze.

All these people suggesting taking out loans and quitting jobs .... the op has to wat and keep a roof over their heads.

Op i suggest that you ask for your thread to be moved to the pregnancy choices board where you will get realistic answers.

Termination is a perfectly valid option and nothing to be ashamed about.

Hi OP, sorry you're having to deal with this.

I don't think anyone could judge you if you chose termination. Firstly because that's nothing to judge you on anyway, and then because it's going to be hard also because you'll have two small kids round your ears all day while on mat leave.

Sorry I haven't had time to read the whole thread, but if it's not come up yet - the world seems to be ever fuller of anti-abortion orgs that promise women all sorts of material help if only they don't 'kill their baby'. Maybe one of those could actually make itself useful with a donation/interest-free loan towards childcare costs? Probably not pleasant dealing with these people, but as they say money doesn't stink.

Ppl even start GoFundMe pages for worse reasons than yours. And I've lent money to friends whose work dried up in lockdown and don't regret it even though I'm not sure when they'll be able to pay back. Of course you don't want to make ppl uncomfortable or imperil friendships, but there may be more sources of money to plug your gap than immediately come to mind.

Whatever you decide, be kind to yourself. All best.

You want a second child fairly soon anyway and now it is a bit earlier. if you have an abortion it is possible you might never get pregnant again so might be best just to go with this one. We had 3 children under 3 so 3 nursery places was out of the question (and like you I was the higher earner) so we paid one person to look after the 3 year old, the 1 year old and the brand new baby and I just took 5 weeks off (full time work for that 3rd baby). There was no free nursery hours in those days (and not many nurseries even) (1980s)

I think a loan is by far the best solution.

I also think, if you truly want to terminate, do it.

But everything you have written says something else - that you are shocked now and primarily worried about the money. If money wasn't an issue, I have a very strong impression you'd just go for it. And that's not because your feelings don't matter or DD doesn't matter, but because you have no knowledge or any guarantee as to how you are going to feel in 2-3 years time if TTC then, or how your DD will be. There are also many positives of having siblings close together, for them.

Regarding pregnancy issues, tbh after 3 consecutive losses I wanted to take a break, my body was exhausted, my MH suffered in ways I cannot describe. But then this pregnancy happened and I am now 21 weeks. Was I ready? No. I was 2 years ago, not now. Will I go for another one? I think so, but I personally will never be ready again after the tough experiences before. Each to their own, but please base your decisions on facts not on assumptions as to how you and DD may be like in few years' time.

I think the key issue is your DH. You sound like the person holding it all together and doing all the organising and management whereas he, whilst potentially hardworking, is actually sailing through this, allowed to do the job that brings crap money for full time working hours, allowed to do it in way which don't help your finances and that's that. It's completely bonkers you are worried about providing for the family and he's doing that, sorry. This is a reason to consider your relationship not necessarily to terminate though, tbh.

We've given you many options to consider, but really all this would be sorted if your DH was acting differently, OP. xx

Money isn't the only issue. The op says she isn't ready. She doesn't want another baby. I find some of the replies on here quite awful...she might never be able to get pregnant again?? Fgs! Do you all stand outside clinics waving placards in your free time?

Can you access proper unbiased pregnancy counselling? You should be able to through your GP. The answers on here will always be skewed towards what people would choose themselves

I would advise against termination because, if you do want a second child, you may not find it so easy to get pregnant again and will be left with regrets. I'm not scaremongering nor am I anti-abortion in the right circumstances. But I am currently suffering from secondary infertility and the sadness of not being able to have a sibling for my lovely first DC is immense. I would hate for anyone else to be in this situation unnecessarily. In your situation, I would make it work with loans/asking for family help if I could.

OP is sounds like the HG worry is the biggest issue? But do you think this will be the same in 2 years time? Unless you wait until DD is in FT school, you may carry the same concern.. but by then you may decide to stick at 1. I know that's happened to a few people I know. Can you access any additional health support now?

coronafiona talks sense. It is short term.
We lived on a (cheap) overdraft for years when DC were small and childcare costs high. I was breadwinner and all DH's salary went on childcare and commuting costs. Then the DC start school and it begins to get easier financially. IMO there are also many advantages to having DC close in age, so there is more than money to consider.

All these people suggesting taking out loans and quitting jobs .... the op has to wat and keep a roof over their heads

I don't see the logic in quitting jobs but the logic behind a loan is, DC2 was planned for a years time when DC1 would have nursery 30 hours paid.
They have about 6 months of fees they will struggle to cover. Between her finishing Mat leave and eldest getting her 30 hours paid.

2 years beyond her going back to work the baby will be getting their 30 hours so Op will very quickly be beyond the pinch point of having heavy nursery fees.

Op I've thought of something else, I'm think the Catholic Church may be willing to help. They are anti abortion but I think they have a fund to help people who would terminate for financial reasons.

I think it would be heartbreaking to terminate for money especially when you do want another baby.
I got my first baby after 6mths trying, my second was 2 losses, and 4 years trying and 6 grand IVF. Babies don't always come to order.

OP been there. Talk to mortgage company about switching to interest only for 2 years. That way you can save like mad now and not have to pay so much after baby

Tbh it's not a helpful response to someone to say that they may not get pregnant again or may not take the baby home, but it has nothing to do with termination or "waving placards". I think those of you who have never experienced baby loss or infertility really don't have a clue what this means for someone who wants a baby, first, or next, sorry.

It's not a great thing to say to someone in OP's situation which is already complicated, but unfortunately it is true. A pregnancy and a baby at the end of it are not a given, to anyone, that's a fact of life and whilst uncomfortable to hear, it is true and something to be aware of. xx

And worst come to worst you take 2 months maternity and go back to work

You can change mortgage terms even if fixed.