Double standards on mn.

[thatwasme22]

This week so far:

1. I have seen various posters defend Caroline Flack for having issues. Maybe she did but then the same argument would not be made on Chris Browne.

1. A thread on the physical attractiveness on male politicians. Imagine a male forum did this on females.

1. A thread with a woman hiding her inheritance from her husband and encouraged to do so by many posters and him being called financially abusive for being sensible over money. When men do this on mn it's all ltb.

Am I missing something? I call myself a feminist so am pro equality and that's how I raised my kids but why is this not being called out on mn?

But you're referencing all this stuff to prove something assuming everyone knows who these people are.

It's a bit odd TBH.

Have you heard of Reid? Warboys? How their cases were handled? Any comments on that?

Well I was posting a lot on it yesterday and then was out for the day. It's a long thread. If you could give me a pointer, of the time the thing you objected to was posted, seeing as you know where it is, that would be really helpful.

So we've deviated from double standards into how women and girls are prone to falsely accusing good men of sex offences for no discernible reason.

No I don't know who Roxanne and Ryan are. I know who Denise Welch is more or less but I'm not sure what qualifications she has to be cited as a voice to listen to on metoo. I had never heard of that other soap fella.

Of course I live in the real world and of course I know that the vast majority of reported sex offences happened, that the police and society have a long record of disregarding victims, and that this has resulted in immense harm to a very large number of people.

While I'm reading, can you tell me what you think about the police turning warboys victims away because they didn't believe them.

@NiceGerbil

But you're referencing all this stuff to prove something assuming everyone knows who these people are.

It's a bit odd TBH.

Have you heard of Reid? Warboys? How their cases were handled? Any comments on that?

It's not odd.

It's recent, high profile cases to back mu argument.

I wonder why youre not aware of a very recent high profile case where a woman was lying 🙄 you can bet it it was a man doing something you would.

I'm really confused as to why you've jumped into a discussion you know nothing about (which is fine) but are putting on me to link you rather than reading up five posts, and pretending that I'm just making things up.

@NiceGerbil afaik the woman that pp is referring to retracted her statement and begged for forgiveness after complaints.

It didn't go to court, it wasn't a case and she was roundly and rightly criticised for stating tjat he punched her repeatedly when what he in fact did was grab her a playfully dig her in the ribs.

It was not a 'high profile case' as it didn't go to court.

Somewhat hyperbolic language involved I think, by the PP.

[quote CandyLeBonBon]@NiceGerbil afaik the woman that pp is referring to retracted her statement and begged for forgiveness after complaints.

It didn't go to court, it wasn't a case and she was roundly and rightly criticised for stating tjat he punched her repeatedly when what he in fact did was grab her a playfully dig her in the ribs.

It was not a 'high profile case' as it didn't go to court.

Somewhat hyperbolic language involved I think, by the PP. [/quote]
It was only in every paper and on every news channel and on every form of social media.

That's not high profile is it.

Candy, you've proved my point re double standards though.

'she begged for forgiveness'.

Aye, poor victim woman.

If a man behaved in such a way she did and then made a pathetic apology he would be lynched.

Yes. It was in the papers. It was not a court case. Don't conflate the two.

@CandyLeBonBon

Yes. It was in the papers. It was not a court case. Don't conflate the two.

Please find me where I said the word court.

If Roxanne had her way, it would have been criminal.

But I digress.

Look at the language we use.

You instantly waded in to defend her. Why?
Even though you claimed you always support the victim?

Becuase she's a woman!

You are relying on the outcome of trial by media.

Perhaps you should step away from daytime tv.

Even if she had pursued her story with cps, the case would not have reached the threshold for evidence and then she would have been prosecuted for perjury and wasting police time.

So no. Your assertions are incorrect.

As it happens she realised her behaviour was wrong, was rightly castigated for it and left the country with her tail between her legs.

You seem to be struggling to understand how the prosecution process works which is a shame because I posted lots of information and resources upthread which you clearly haven't read.

Ho hum.

We'll just have to politely disagree.

I'll let you get back to the oh so edifying Loose Women!

And I haven't defended anyone. I'm stating the facts of the situation and clarifying what actually happened versus your own hyperbole

I only read the BBC website and watch newsnight, C4 news and Al Jazeera.

I must have missed it.

The post you refer to, was it this one?

'12:55JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

Butwasitherdriveway

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows and Brad did? According to?

His wife and kids

Patriarchy in action: men are automatically believed before women are. That is the default'

?

I think you joined the thread just after I left yesterday- when the conversation about Johnny Depp started.

I'm interested as to why you think it's out of order for individuals to form opinions about things they hear about- whether in real life, on the news etc. It's human nature to do that. And in fact loads of people form opinions about others based on no more than what they look like, their accent, where they live etc.

I'm also not sure why this focus on celebrities.

I mean if you want that. I've always thought there was something really iffy about what happened to Stuart Lubbock and the original police handling sounds very poor. That's a celebrity case so on your radar I assume. Your view is I should not form that opinion? And no one else should either? Is this for all crimes?

What do you think of what happened with warboys, butwas?

That was definitely in the news and involves not believing.

@CandyLeBonBon

You are relying on the outcome of trial by media.

Perhaps you should step away from daytime tv.

Even if she had pursued her story with cps, the case would not have reached the threshold for evidence and then she would have been prosecuted for perjury and wasting police time.

So no. Your assertions are incorrect.

As it happens she realised her behaviour was wrong, was rightly castigated for it and left the country with her tail between her legs.

You seem to be struggling to understand how the prosecution process works which is a shame because I posted lots of information and resources upthread which you clearly haven't read.

Ho hum.

We'll just have to politely disagree.

I'll let you get back to the oh so edifying Loose Women!

You are so patronising and offensive.

I haven't read your resources because you're so unpleasant I couldn't be arsed

I do however work 8-6 Monday -fri which will disappoint your perception of me.

Re your comments about Roxanne - you are the dictionary definition of abuse apologist.
She realised she was wrong (was caught out K. But she's female, so that's fine! And you think she's the only person ever to do it.

I understand how a process works. It's you who doesn't.

Guilty! (Eh, no they're not because I said so). 🙄

@NiceGerbil

I only read the BBC website and watch newsnight, C4 news and Al Jazeera.

I must have missed it.

The post you refer to, was it this one?

'12:55JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

Butwasitherdriveway

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows and Brad did? According to?

His wife and kids

Patriarchy in action: men are automatically believed before women are. That is the default'

?

I think you joined the thread just after I left yesterday- when the conversation about Johnny Depp started.

I'm interested as to why you think it's out of order for individuals to form opinions about things they hear about- whether in real life, on the news etc. It's human nature to do that. And in fact loads of people form opinions about others based on no more than what they look like, their accent, where they live etc.

I'm also not sure why this focus on celebrities.

I mean if you want that. I've always thought there was something really iffy about what happened to Stuart Lubbock and the original police handling sounds very poor. That's a celebrity case so on your radar I assume. Your view is I should not form that opinion? And no one else should either? Is this for all crimes?

I referenced Andrew Lancel as a case where a career can be ruined on a word.

About 39 posts ago

People can think what they like, but if you read very carefully you will see that the reason I referenced the public eye in the first place was that that is very different to cases of people you know and love.

I don't understand your point here.

Are you saying that individuals in the public, when they hear whatever about any crime, not form their own opinion as to who they think is probably telling the truth?

I have asked a few times about your opinion on the warboys case and how the officers acted, turning away victims because a black cab driver 'wouldn't do that'.

On this lancel chap that I've never heard of. Google tells me the case was in 2014.
Wiki says

'In 2012, Lancel returned to the stage when he was cast as former Beatles manager Brian Epstein in Epstein – The Man Who Made the Beatles a new play by Andrew Sherlock which debuted at the Epstein Theatrein Liverpool on 15 November 2012. The newly refurbished theatre being named in honour of Brian Epstein. The play transferred to the West End at the Leicester Square Theatre in 2014. The play, and Lancel's performance as Epstein drew huge critical acclaim with Whats on Stage describing his performance as 'phenomenal'[10] and London Theatre calling it 'mesmerising.'[11][12]

In 2014, Lancel was cast as Adam Snow alongside Diane Keen and Robert Duncan in the world premiere of The Small Hand based on the book by Susan Hill and adapted by Clive Francis. The play, directed by Roy Marsden and produced by Bill Kenwright, premiered at the Theatre Royal Windsor before touring the UK.[13]

Lancel joined the cast of Twelve Angry Men in 2015, following its West End run, and received rave reviews for his turn as juror number three,[14][15] starring alongside Tom Conti and Denis Lill.[16]

In November 2015, it was announced that Lancel would be taking on the role of Brian Clough in a new stage adaptation of The Damned United based on the novel by David Peace. The play is a co-production between Red Ladder and West Yorkshire Playhouse[7]

In May 2016, it was announced that Lancel will be making his musical debut, undertaking the role of Captain Von Trapp in the UK Tour of The Sound of Music.[17]

Following a national touring starring as Detective Superintendent Vetch in Ruth Rendell's A Judgement in Stone (again directed by a Roy Marsden and produced by Bill Kenwright he once again returned to the role of Brian Epstein in Jeff Pope's Cilla the Musical, an adaption of his ITV drama Cilla. The musical opened in September 2017 at the Liverpool Empire to rave reviews, and has played to sold out audiences throughout the UK.'

I mean that goes through 2014 and looks like he's been successful to me

I also don't understand all this. Women are raped an awful lot. Most don't report. Of those who report most don't get to court.

From the ONS- I'm sure you're aware of the stats

'More than 750,000 adults aged 16-74 were victims of sexual assault or attempted sexual assault in the year ending March 2020, according to the data published by the ONS. There were 618,000 female victims, four times as many as male.'

In those rapes, I'm probably not going too wide of the mark to think the vast majority of the assailants would lie about it

I think it's 3% of reported rapes see a conviction, and most rapes are not reported.

Or do you think all those men and women are lying, if there's not a conviction? I think you said something earlier. Not sure.

So why is a tiny tiny amount of false reports of rape (in line with other crimes and less than stuff people want to claim on insurance) a much bigger problem than all those thousands of men and women never seeing justice, and I'd bet that the vast majority of assailants would lie and say they didn't do it.

In the few weeks I've been on here, yes I think I've noticed a sort of inconsistency. But like someone else said earlier, the thing is there must be hundreds of thousands of people writing comments on here, so it's not like it's the same people being inconsistent, it's just a generalisation. But all I mean is that on most threads about conflicting rights, many people are falling over themselves to be "politically correct", except when it comes to one particular issue.
If Mumsnet was just one person's private blog, then I'd feel like writing "hey, you're being inconsistent, you've got to decide one way or another which sort of society you want and then stick with that view". But like I say, it's millions of different people commenting, so it's not one person's view.

I'm afraid you lost me at 'couldn't be arse' @Butwasitherdriveway

I took the time looked up the media stories you mentioned. I don't happen to agree with your assertions but I took the time to check out what you were referring to.

It's a shame you didn't do the same as it does rather weaken your position.

No matter. As I said we'll just have to politely agree to disagree.

I think overall Mumsnet is fair. The majority of women are in a more vulnerable position than men.
I've also seen a fair share of posts where the women has been massively unreasonable, abusive or down right nasty and has been told so by posters.
The only post I that was uncomfortable to read was a male poster who said he wanted to leave his partner and baby because he couldn't cope. Was suffering mental health issues and expressed he wanted to kill himself. He got a huge pile on, was called a closet homosexual, pathetic and a sociopath. I doubt those posters would of said that to a women who was posting but I obv can't confirm that. I do hope they where banned however. That post stuck with me a bit.
Women are more likely to be abused, and are more likely to become worse off in a divorce, from being a SAHM or because the majority of child care falls to us.

@thatwasme22

This week so far:

1. I have seen various posters defend Caroline Flack for having issues. Maybe she did but then the same argument would not be made on Chris Browne.

1. A thread on the physical attractiveness on male politicians. Imagine a male forum did this on females.

1. A thread with a woman hiding her inheritance from her husband and encouraged to do so by many posters and him being called financially abusive for being sensible over money. When men do this on mn it's all ltb.

Am I missing something? I call myself a feminist so am pro equality and that's how I raised my kids but why is this not being called out on mn?

1. Caroline flack self harmed, and then threw a lamp at him when he said he was going to call for help because she was scared of the media finding out and everyone knowing she self harmed and was struggling with her MH. He was assessed at the scene and his injury needed zero medical attention, the blood the paper published was hers. She was hounded by the media, many untruths published, whilst he went back to his career and actually enjoyed more success after being found guilty, whereas she lost her job when no one knew what had actually happened.

2. there are predominantly male platforms where males discuss women in the public eye in disgusting ways, and think what ridicule female politicians face in the media even, like Diane Abbott. Male politicians aren't described in the same way, ever. I do agree though that the thread was a bit off, and if we want to push for it not to happen to women should also not do it.

3. I agree that's a bad double standard.

@ooohbriefcase

I think overall Mumsnet is fair. The majority of women are in a more vulnerable position than men. I've also seen a fair share of posts where the women has been massively unreasonable, abusive or down right nasty and has been told so by posters. The only post I that was uncomfortable to read was a male poster who said he wanted to leave his partner and baby because he couldn't cope. Was suffering mental health issues and expressed he wanted to kill himself. He got a huge pile on, was called a closet homosexual, pathetic and a sociopath. I doubt those posters would of said that to a women who was posting but I obv can't confirm that. I do hope they where banned however. That post stuck with me a bit. Women are more likely to be abused, and are more likely to become worse off in a divorce, from being a SAHM or because the majority of child care falls to us.

I remember that one @ooohbriefcase (I spend too much time on here 😬)

I agree - there were some awful comments in there. I don't often think mn is necessarily a reflection of the wider world though (you only have to look at the cleaning threads for confirmation of that one!).

It’s not ‘double standards’ it’s ‘opposing views’ , unless you have cross referenced individual posters making these comments.

There is no shared Uni mind on MN. There probably are individuals with double standards, but in general there is ad wide a spread of views on MN as elsewhere.

Definitely double standards.

Too much NAMNALT on this thread...