What is it that makes men change once you have DC?

[Hillsandthrills]

Once me and my exDH had DC he completely changed - became argumentative, tight with money, moody, avoided helping with DC, everything became my fault, struggled to get him to come out on day trips blah blah blah. I see this a lot of times on MN and in real life - what is it that makes men change? Is it lack of attention from their wives/partner after the DC are born? Not liking the new responsibilities?

I suspect it’s probably a combination of both, you’re tired all the time and probably both more irritated than usual. Its not just men that change tho.. everyone changes and sometimes you just don’t like the other ‘new’ person.

Who cares? Bottom line, if someone behaves like a twat then they are a twat, end of.

Personally I think it is because of deep seated entitlement and ingrained misogyny, but I would give it the same amount of time in my thoughts that they have given to you - none.

1. Laziness
2. Jealousy

Having a baby is like throwing a grenade into your relationship. No matter how strong your relationship is, it's going to be very difficult. Some cope better than others. In some it reveals unpleasant traits that have been hidden or ignored. In some it pulls you together closer as a team. And this is to say nothing of how new parents cope as individuals.

A lot of women also change and a lot of men don’t change.

They are jealous that DC are the more important person to you and expect you to become some 1950s housewife but also work and bring in the same money as before?

I think it is because of deep seated entitlement and ingrained misogyny,

THIS

Expectations change. Suddenly the men are required to pull their weight. Some do, many resist and It becomes a bone of contention that leads to arguments and resentment.

It’s a life changing event, so of course it changes all people. Some for the better, some for the worse.

I think a lot of it is losing the attention and love of their partner, where it gets redirected to a tiny baby. While at the same time having to step up themselves and take on more responsibility, for some men they see it as ‘paying out more and getting less back’.

I think there’s very little communication that takes place in a lot of couples about having children and how much it changes the their dynamic and how it changed them personally. It’s hard to discuss, especially when it’s unknown.

Yikes, Suddenly the men are required to pull their weight.

So the partner was ok with them not pulling their weight before?

Entitlement and resentment basically.

In many cases, the red flags were already there but it gets amplified when the children arrive.

A man who does no housework, doesn’t share money, is selfish is unlikely to start doing the opposite when the babies arrive.

To be honest I don’t think the men in these scenarios change that much. They are who they always were and it is somewhat amplified from tiredness and the parter thinking they would change after children.
In these posts the men almost always didn’t get involved with housework, grocery shopping or other household tasks. Really it isn’t surprising that a man who doesn’t share chores with his girlfriend won’t share chores when she is the mother of his children either.

So the partner was ok with them not pulling their weight before?

I’d imagine it’s likely that, prior to having children and with only two adults in the house, there was significantly less to do and vastly more time in which to do it. The fact that he wasn’t really pulling his weight wasn’t as obvious before children as it is after. Still completely unacceptable for one person not to pull their weight however.

Suddenly theres someone who is more important than them. They can't handle not being the centre of everything. Doesn't compute therefore they malfunction. Sounds harsh but that was certainly my experience.

Some people change and adapt, others don't. Those who don't put pressure on the other parent as they have to then pick up the slack.

@SoWhyNot

A lot of women also change and a lot of men don’t change.

I agree with this. And this is what is common on mumsnet threads. The many, many threads.

When the baby arrives, women change their lives. The family is the important focus. Night out / trips away become far less frequent. Hobby time might be cut back. The cleaner might be let go due to finances. Then the man doesnt change. He still expects his life to continue in exactly the same way, and doesnt get that it can’t. He thinks having to cut back on his hobbies, nights out, trips away is a punishment and not just part of having new responsibilities.

Time after time.

Their selfishness and unwillingness to change and compromise wasnt an issue, or a noticeable one, before the baby.

If the man refuses to change at all, then every single change and compromise has to be done by the woman. So that amplifies how selfish he is.

It seems like there's some element of Madonna-Whore stuff going on for some of them. Possibly tied into their own parents and unresolved resentments. I've noticed most women do an awful lot of therapy/self help work when they become mothers, but I've very rarely seen a new or prospective father putting in that self reflection (the same goes for looking into child development and parenting styles).

Tiredness plus having something to argue about / disagree with constantly (parenting style) is my best guess.

Sometimes they just start showing who they really are because they think they've got you trapped. In what you describe is abuse and neglect (of the children) no normal person does that because they have a lack of attention. They get away with not being called out on their behaviour (in some families/friendship circles) because of male entitlement. Women would be vilified for doing the same.

If you are a woman in a relationship splitting the housework 70/30 and holding down a job, but no kids, that's pretty doable. Doing 70% with a couple of small children is much harder work and resentment kicks in.

I think plenty of men 'do things' before a baby arrives, however they don't automatically get up to feed ,change, comfort the baby, pack the change bag, make sure the baby is clean, get a spare set of clothes ready for the journey etc etc. The don't put themselves forward for the grunt work. They still think they can carry on as before , going out to the pub on a weekend, doing a communities the house for 4 hours every Sunday etc. This is when the problems arise.

two adults in the house, there was significantly less to do and vastly more time in which to do it

This is completely true. All of it. But I still find it difficult to understand why if someone didn’t clean their piss from around the toilet/seat, cook themselves tea, wash their dishes, clean their clothes, put their clothes away before children you’d in any way logical assume as soon as they have a child they would start doing their own AND someone else’s (yours/the child’s). It’s just not going to happen is it.

Communities= hobby.

I don't think they do change. I think they've always been selfish, done little domestically (or do it in a way that isn't helpful practically - e.g. they'll cook a three hour show stopper meal for guests but won't do a quick midweek dinner), have expected huge amounts of leisure time and uninterrupted sleep as their compensation for doing (often a perfectly ordinary) job - but most of that isn't very obvious before the children. Sleep and leisure aren't in short supply so it isn't clear that he thinks he deserves them more than his partner, and domestic work was much lighter so if all he does is take out the bins and do some gardening very few weeks both halves can kid themselves that he does his part. When he still only does that while his partner now has no leisure time at all it's now obviously selfish but he hasn't actually changed, it's just been exposed.