What is it that makes men change once you have DC?

[Hillsandthrills]

Once me and my exDH had DC he completely changed - became argumentative, tight with money, moody, avoided helping with DC, everything became my fault, struggled to get him to come out on day trips blah blah blah. I see this a lot of times on MN and in real life - what is it that makes men change? Is it lack of attention from their wives/partner after the DC are born? Not liking the new responsibilities?

Men have the luxury of time to decide if they want to settle down and start a family unlike women.

He quite sincerely could not get why I could not join them, could I not find someone to look for a baby for a month?... Like a nanny or maybe a neighbour? Ah what a shame, ok bye, the tickets are for tomorrow!

He knew that you couldn't come, of course he did. He just didn't care.

With one ex, he was always ok with doing housework and was pretty tidy etc. However, he was selfish and got angry when challenged. What really changed was that I challenged him more - I had someone else to fight for when he didn't want to do things for our child. He had form for refusing to do things I wanted (going out maybe) but pre-children it didn't matter - I just went out with friends. It got to the point that he would refuse to go anywhere with me and our child the whole weekend, and also didn't want me to leave our child with him as I was on maternity leave and could "do whatever I like all day" - yes, so much fun one can have with a baby attached...

So yeah, like I said, he's an ex...

Not all do. My dh didn't. Why? Maybe because he was expected to pull his weight to begin with? I made it quite clear I was looking for a partner equal in all things not a grown up child before I was ready for kids. I stuck to that steadfast and didn't waver. Before we had kids we looked at how our lives would change in terms of who would go part time if either of us, whether we would go for a nursery or childminder and the fees pick ups and drop offs. How would we do maternity leave, how much time he would take off as annual leave. You can't plan for anything but it is stupid in my opinion to go in with your eyes wide shut.

So many women have kids with a partner who wasn't especially bothered about having kids in the first place. How can you expect that issues won't crop up it he wasn't that bothered in the first place? Some men may well be excited for kids and then not step up. This is where women shouldn't make allowances for them. I can't say how many times I have read on birthboards that women are struggling with nights with a newborn and their partner is sleeping in the spare room. When you ask why because he works so hard, full time etc. Boo bloody hoo, unless a surgeon, pilot or drives for a living he can pull his weight so his partner doesn't suffer.

There are so many posts about a partner being feckless but when you ask what they were like before kids posters get defensive and you get the dripfeed that they themselves basically did everything pre kids anyway. I just don't understand why anyone would have kids with someone like this, what is going to miraculously change?

I can't say how many times I have read on birthboards that women are struggling with nights with a newborn and their partner is sleeping in the spare room. When you ask why because he works so hard, full time etc. Boo bloody hoo, unless a surgeon, pilot or drives for a living he can pull his weight so his partner doesn't suffer.

I think this particular example also points to another problem - that people get stuck in patterns set early on. DH ended up sleeping in the spare room after a few weeks with DC1, and almost immediately with DC2 and that was my choice - neither of them ever wanted anything but feeding in the night, and DH waking up too did nothing to get me any more sleep, so he slept in the spare room and took them in the evening and from early in the morning - I think that was the best option for us all. In my opinion of trying it and failing you can't do equal parenting of a breastfed baby - this was a huge shock to me with DS1. BUT it doesn't have to mean, as it so often does, that the woman is still the default parent and the one who gets up in the night long after having the boobs is a necessity. With DS1 it was completely reset for us by shared parental leave, which is one reason that I recommend it so highly - it meant we completely avoided the trap I've seen so many couples fall into of the woman going back to work but the man doing no more than when she was on mat leave.

I’m very supportive of shared parenting but I do think I’d expect the one who isn’t at work to be doing the lions share of night wake ups, to be honest.

Mine does sleep in the spare room but baby only generally wakes once.

Selfishness
Immaturity

@daffodilsandprimroses that is fine if the child only wakes up once a night but mine were up several times a night and I was on my knees. Dh saw that and took over three nights a week because I am his wife and just because I was on mat leave didn't mean I should suffer. There is a reason lack of sleep is used as a torture method.

The parent on maternity leave will do the bulk of childcare but it doesn't mean that working full time gets you out of parenting or worse if you see that your partner needs help but don't step in by cooking a meal or taking over with the baby so they can get some respite. Too many women as evidenced on here make excuses for their partners!

So - what's the solution?

I'm 24 weeks with DC1, DH is I'd say fairly typical - he does a fair bit around the house, but we're definitely not 50/50, I do more of the 'woman's work' like laundry and cooking. It's definitely got worse the last year or so as we spent nearly a year living with parents so had other adults to spread the chores out (and his mum is a SAHM with very 1950s division of labour in their house so he didn't have the best example). Whenever we talk about it he argues he does more of the admin, bills, gardening etc. but I dispute this, I'd say that side of things is about 50/50.

Anyway - we have an amazing relationship and I don't think he is fundamentally a selfish person. So how can I (a) reset our current distribution without having a massive argument about how actually we do have a 50/50 set up right now (which I don't believe we do) and (b) ensure as much as possible after baby arrive we don't slip into me doing 90% of the parenting and still doing 70% of the domestic stuff..? Looking for practical tips here!

@notalwaysalondoner

So - what's the solution?

I'm 24 weeks with DC1, DH is I'd say fairly typical - he does a fair bit around the house, but we're definitely not 50/50, I do more of the 'woman's work' like laundry and cooking. It's definitely got worse the last year or so as we spent nearly a year living with parents so had other adults to spread the chores out (and his mum is a SAHM with very 1950s division of labour in their house so he didn't have the best example). Whenever we talk about it he argues he does more of the admin, bills, gardening etc. but I dispute this, I'd say that side of things is about 50/50.

Anyway - we have an amazing relationship and I don't think he is fundamentally a selfish person. So how can I (a) reset our current distribution without having a massive argument about how actually we do have a 50/50 set up right now (which I don't believe we do) and (b) ensure as much as possible after baby arrive we don't slip into me doing 90% of the parenting and still doing 70% of the domestic stuff..? Looking for practical tips here!

When we've had the baby, we'll need to share the cooking. Shall we choose some cookbooks for inspiration? Start there. Expect him to pull his weight. My husband made me coffee and toast every morning as I'd been up throughout the night feeding etc. He also cooked all of the main meals while I did regular batch cooks. Make your expectations clear.

@notalwaysalondoner before DC comes would be idea because otherwise you’ll both be tired and grumpy, that isn’t a way to start a conversation about some person doing significantly less work.

I’d probably have a look at why he doesn’t do it; what happens if you leave his dishes in the sink or laundry in the basket? Eventually he’ll run out of clothes. What does he do with the time that he isn’t doing chores? What hobbies do you both have and are they equal in time commitment? Are you hanging the washing on the line whilst he’s sitting watching tv/on his phone/having the longest shit in the world?

I have form for being an arsehole so I personally would just stop doing it and let it get to ridiculous levels, if they’d rather argue than actually look after themselves that’s signal enough for me.

Well, assuming they weren't actually asshole to begin with i imagine it's because it threatens their self importance.

Me man. Me go out to work. Work haaarrrd. Raising children easy little woman's work. Me provider.

Then they realise they can't get through a Saturday alone and there are more chores than before. Bit fuck me if some of those dickheads can't bear to admit that raising children is harder than their little job and their woman is throwing themselves at their feet for being such a good provider and being so impressed with them doing 40 hours per week (when they themselves do the same amount of childcare or work themselves!)

I don't think DH did change. I did though, massively and that changed our relationship.

@Ponoka7

Sometimes they just start showing who they really are because they think they've got you trapped. In what you describe is abuse and neglect (of the children) no normal person does that because they have a lack of attention. They get away with not being called out on their behaviour (in some families/friendship circles) because of male entitlement. Women would be vilified for doing the same.

I don’t think it’s just a matter of having “trapped” their partner. If they think like this then having a child didn’t change them, they were already arseholes.

The issue is the mother is different. She has to be different. I think men can sometimes become resentful because they just don’t like or enjoy family life with children. Resentment causes arguments and relationships breakdown. It’s not because they have someone trapped, unless they were controlling before. If someone behaves this way they do not love you. The only way then is out.

Sadly, I think a lot of men also stop finding their partner attractive once she has become a mother. Which in turn leads to more resentment because they don’t want to be there, and in fact it’s the man that feels trapped.

@Hardbackwriter how did you split the leave? It's something we're considering doing - planning for him to take a month after I go back to work. It's so tempting to take it off at the same time and use it to go on holiday or something, but from my perspective the most likely way for him to do a fair share is if he has a few weeks of actually switching roles and doing everything for the baby while I'm at work. Interested to get your perspective.

...they didn't actually want a child but were pressured into it by a partner
The weird thing is, some blokes really like this paradigm, and actually want to believe they are pressured into having a child. I had at least two boyfriends who believed that they were being magnanimous by considering having children with me, and were a bit put out by my lack of response to their hints (and later their suggestions) that I have their children.
Both of these men had a lot to say about how women want kids and men don't. I felt they liked the power that their supposed reluctance gave them, and that they would be quick to leave or threaten to leave if they were required to do much of the hard, boring stuff that comprises parenthood.

I find this thread very hard to read, because it echoes much of my own experience.

DH has been a total let down as a Father. He loves DS very much, but I’ve been left with PND, largely because of the shock of finding him so crap with our DS when he was born (after a very difficult labour, then things got no easier when he came home).

I’m pretty certain I’ve got Long Covid- developed because I did all the caring for DS when we all had Covid in January. I’m in therapy and about to start antidepressants.

There is nothing of me left. DH is impatient, not intuitive, often puts work first and puts me last. I had no signs of this before we had DS. If we had, I don’t know whether I could have done it...

I highly doubt I’ll have more DC with him, unless I choose too because I become desperate for more, and he’s my only chance. In my heart of hearts I’m certain we’ll divorce. I’m still here to give it a chance for DS’s sake, and to save enough money so that if we do split I’m not stony broke. We’re not yet home owners and I want to get a house and build up some equity, so I’m not stuck renting forever if we do split.

I know if we split later that is likely to damage DS more than if we split when he’s a toddler and doesn’t remember us being together, but I don’t want to be both divorced and impoverished in to the bargain. So I’m clinging on to my job by my fingertips, despite being so ill, and giving him a few years to see if things improve.

But in my heart of hearts I don’t think they will.

@VestaTilley I feel for you.

One of the reasons I married DH was because he was very family orientated. When I had DD it was like he’d had a personality transplant overnight as he took fuck all interest in DD and did fuck all housework then spent all his spare time playing computer games. Things slowly improved. Then I had DS and we are almost back to square one.
I hate to say this but I lots all respect for him after he watched me struggle both mentally and physically after having DD whilst he prioritised his gaming family. It’s like he’s provided the essential genetic material and I’m not sure what he contributes now to the family unit. With two kids under school age I cant afford divorce him now but in a few years time when the kids are at school. I never understood pre-DC why so many couples split up after 20 years of marriage but I do now.