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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

If you're still sticking to ALL the rules/guidance - why?

999 replies

RaspberryCoulis · 27/03/2021 10:50

Will start by saying I am not sticking to the covid rules any more. Obviously I can't go places which aren't open. But we have had people in the house, kids are going out with friends probably in larger numbers than are permitted, we're crossing local authority boundaries which is supposedly illegal in Scotland. Why? Because we've been in lockdown for a year, cases here are very low, and some things are more important than Covid.

But on every thread there are people claiming that they are sticking rigidly to every single rule and guideline, never breaking ANY rule. They would probably say I was a selfish covid-denier who was hellbent on murdering their granny.

So if you're sticking to all the guidelines and rules, without fail - why? People who are clinically extremely vulnerable (officially) I can understand in part if they're not vaccinated. But the rest of you? Is it because you're scared of Covid, or scared of your neighbours, or scared of breaking the law by mistake?

OP posts:
Sexnotgender · 28/03/2021 20:44

Because I’m not a cunt.

Because my daughter is in the shielding category and I quite like her so don’t fancy giving her a virus that might kill her.

Ninawest100 · 28/03/2021 20:47

I am vaccinated, so are my parents and we're all meeting indoors. I'll bet I'm far from the only one.
Call me a cunt, twat, call me anything you like.
I'm not, I'm human and I have limits and needs as we all do.

DispensingShitAdviceSince2002 · 28/03/2021 20:48

@KindnessCrusader

Because I've always had a very strong moral compass. I want my children to have the same.
@KindnessCrusader What a misnomer, if ever there was one.

Have your children lost their home in order to protect random strangers from catching a virus which isn't that bothersome to the overwhelming majority of people who catch it?

If you have genuinely given up your job, your income, your home, and your children's security in order to "be kind" and "keep people safe", then I take it all back.

Ninawest100 · 28/03/2021 20:53

I still remember a thread from last April where a woman asked on here if she was allowed to meet her Mum for a walk in the park.
The responses were insane, it was maybe down to fear, but also a need to tell people what to do and feel superior.
The woman was called all sorts of names, sworn at and basically made out to be some sort of murderer.
It's very worrying and it brings out an incredibly bad side to some people.

KindnessCrusader · 28/03/2021 20:54

@DispensingShitAdviceSince2002 my Husband is a hospitality chef, so hasn't been able to work since last March, and I and my Son were hospitalised last May which has resulted in some quite tricky mental health problems for my Son and I am still too unwell to work. A close relative died in June and we weren't able to see them or attend their funeral. We have been forced to use a foodbank so yes it has been reasonably tough for us (I know it's been far, far worse for others) I wouldn't wish what happened to us on anyone.

KindnessCrusader · 28/03/2021 20:56

Sorry if you felt my post was unkind, it certainly wasn't intended to be so.

Willyoujustbequiet · 28/03/2021 20:57

Because I'm not a selfish twat Biscuit

PrincessNutNuts · 28/03/2021 20:58

@Alsohuman

Tell that to New Zealand

The country that’s closed its borders. How’s that sustainable?

Dunno. Ask them. It's been a while.

They don't seem in any hurry to give up their unsustainable plan and join us in Lockdown Hokey Cokey.

MrsTreglowan · 28/03/2021 20:59

Sorry but I'm still being careful as I lost 2 members of my family to covid one of them my cousin who was just 35.

Alsohuman · 28/03/2021 21:00

They will. Tourism represents 20% of their income.

RootyT00t · 28/03/2021 21:00

@KindnessCrusader

Sorry if you felt my post was unkind, it certainly wasn't intended to be so.
It wasn't. Theirs was.
kellehi · 28/03/2021 21:01

[quote Nuitsdesetoiles]@kellehi completely agree. And there are punitive harsh practices going on in healthcare under the guise of "we can't because of covid", women not having partners at scans or in the first stages of labour, telephone CAMHS appointments (waste of time), patients on in patient mental health units unnecessarily having a full set of physical obs done everyday therefore increasing their fear and paranoia... Completely pointless and damaging. Same patients on in patient units and secure units being denied visits with their family. It's punitive, it's harmful is wrong and we need to stop just meekly accepting it all. There's an army of healthcare professionals out there who agree but they've been threatened into silence!![/quote]
I actually have some quantitative numbers on this

Figures for Scotland, numbers for inpatients and day treatments...

2015 – April to June – 267,347
2016 – April to June – 274,635
2017 – April to June – 265,295
2018 – April to June – 268,200
2019 – April to June – 274,133
2020 – April to June – 141,761

Many of those will be time sensitive lifesaving treatments such as chemotherapy and radiotherapy. I wonder what will have happened to those 130,000 odd people who usually require that sort of inpatient treatment, but have had it cancelled?

Chouetted · 28/03/2021 21:02

I have a preexisting condition that doesn't qualify me for an early vaccination. It causes fatigue and hugely limits what I can do day to day.

I don't have the functional capacity to risk long covid. It would quite possibly be the end of my study, my work - everything that I've fought to achieve over the past few years. That risk is too high for me.

DispensingShitAdviceSince2002 · 28/03/2021 21:02

I'm sorry you have had a rubbish time too, @KindnessCrusader
But would you have chosen to do any of this in order to help other people to "stay safe"?
Because this is the rub. I have brought my children up to be kind, unselfish, thoughtful, etc, etc - but I haven't brought them up to sacrifice their nearest and dearest, and give up everything that matters, without a fight.

PrincessNutNuts · 28/03/2021 21:03

[quote kellehi]@PrincessNutNuts - Tell that to New Zealand.

Who will not be able to have anyone in, vaccines or no.

This is because the vaccines are not 100% effective at preventing covid and nor is it 100% effective at preventing transmission.

So no point in vaccine passport if there is any chance that a vaccinated person might be able to spread covid[/quote]
New Zealand have an adequate covid response strategy of find, test, trace and Isolate so they don't currently need vaccines.

They may add them in time, but they'll still have their adequate covid response to help them.

My cousin in NZ went to a gig last weekend. There's a huge family wedding soon. 148,000 of them aren't dead. NZ are fine.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 28/03/2021 21:05

@Ninawest100

I am vaccinated, so are my parents and we're all meeting indoors. I'll bet I'm far from the only one. Call me a cunt, twat, call me anything you like. I'm not, I'm human and I have limits and needs as we all do.
Everyone has wants, many needs are just wants.

I want a health service that can treat other things than just covid, an economy for my children, our health and for people to stop losing loved ones or their health with long term complications.

Therefore I am willing to follow the rules and guidelines and find ways to see family or keep in touch that doesn’t put anyone at risk or breaks the rules.

DispensingShitAdviceSince2002 · 28/03/2021 21:05

@Chouetted

I have a preexisting condition that doesn't qualify me for an early vaccination. It causes fatigue and hugely limits what I can do day to day.

I don't have the functional capacity to risk long covid. It would quite possibly be the end of my study, my work - everything that I've fought to achieve over the past few years. That risk is too high for me.

Well, the risk of lockdown was too high for me - but everyone went along with it anyway. I left my XH after he abused the children, and it has taken me years to get up and running and financially independent again. Over my dead body am I giving it all up for Covid. And I am clinically vulnerable - but as I'm also clinically vulnerable to flu - including "Long flu", though it doesn't have a special name other than pneumonia or pleurisy and I don't expect other people to give up their lives and their children's homes to prevent me from catching flu, I absolutely will not agree that people who break the rules are cunts.
PrincessNutNuts · 28/03/2021 21:12

@Alsohuman

They will. Tourism represents 20% of their income.
They are a desirable location and their covid free status only adds to that.

They can set the terms.

They don't have to open up to the world, they can participate in travel corridors with other countries who have successfully handled covid such as Vietnam, Thailand, Australia, Singapore etc.

And allow people from the countries like us who aren't handling covid well to visit if they do a long enough quarantine.

But no rush. Their economy is healthier than ours.

kellehi · 28/03/2021 21:19

[quote sausagedogststandupandtakeover]@kellehi

Here you go.

[[https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/213573/coronavirus-more-likely-spread-inside-through]]/

[[https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-is-risk-of-catching-covid-19-inside-vs-outside]]ll_5ecd3aeec5b6de82df1e2ef8[/quote]
I don't need a paper to tell me that Covid is more easily spread inside than outside. It's obvious to even the most simple minded person. My whole point is covid is spread by people going out of their house, full stop.

And quantitative dammit, quantitative... How many cases/deaths as a result of people breaking the rules and meeting indoors as a fraction of our population?? Not 'Uhhhh, there's the proof it's more likely'. Talk about teaching people to sck eggs

You are completely missing the point of my last post to you.

Here it is again. I have highlighted the parts I'd like to draw your attention to...

There are many activities that people like to participate in whilst they go about their daily lives that have an element of risk of death or serious injury. Even things as mundane as having a bath compared to having a shower.

The question is not whether activity X carries more of a risk of death than not doing activity X, but whether that risk is substantial, or that risk outweighs the benefits compared to the quality of life gained...

There have been 35 pages of 'unsubstantiated vagueness' and yet nobody has provided anything quantitative on the numbers of infections that occur whilst meeting in private homes, however there is ample media on the following:

- The NHS placing untested covid positive patients into care homes, resulting in a huge number of deaths
- The NHS infecting huge numbers of patients shortly after being admitted to hospital for treatment of non-covid conditions...
- A number of examples of factories, warehouses, etc which got in the media because someone superspread Covid amongst the workers

That is because there is nothing quantitative to look at except the media reporting of these. You would have expected the government to do cost/benefit studies on the cost to the quality of life versus benefit of staying home alone. But they didn't do any of those. They just assumed simplistically, as you do, that when you stay home, then you reduce the spread of covid...

Perhaps in an ideal world, where I implied above, where absolutely everyone doesn't go out, then it might work. But life isn't like that. It is not physically possible to stay home and not go out.

People need to go out. They need to go to work in supermarkets. They need hospital treatment. They need to take the dog to the toilet. Many reasons...

Nahhhhh... you don't care about those. Those are all 'allowed activities' under 'THE LAW'. Doing those things can't possibly be the substantial cause of the spread of covid. It must be because of bad people. Bad people who have spent the whole year alone and under house arrest, begging for some semblance of human contact.

You are somehow desperate to prove that the major driver of Covid deaths is all about people breaking 'the rulez'. Yep, millions of people have been told they should not meet other people indoors and we are expected to believe that one or two people meeting indoors together is the major driver of Covid granny deaths, and not the actions of the NHS which are shortly to be unravelled in an upcoming enquiry for all to see.

Your papers say nothing about the numbers of Covid cases/deaths that have occurred as a result of people following the rules, going to work, being done in by the NHS, etc etc

Also, please don't try to claim that Imperial paper is evidence of the government having done such studies in support of their decision to lockdown. That article is dated late January, long after the last lockdown was emplaced.

kellehi · 28/03/2021 21:22

highlight didn't work in all cases... That would be the parts with at the beginning and at the end

Mojoj · 28/03/2021 21:31

No I haven't. The media have done an amazing job of frightening the Bejesus out of everyone. It's a virus. Unless you're old or vulnerable or have an underlying health condition, including being obese, even if you catch it, chances are you'll recover. Life is for living and it's time we all got on with it.

Butwasitherdriveway · 28/03/2021 21:36

@Mojoj

No I haven't. The media have done an amazing job of frightening the Bejesus out of everyone. It's a virus. Unless you're old or vulnerable or have an underlying health condition, including being obese, even if you catch it, chances are you'll recover. Life is for living and it's time we all got on with it.
Life is for living except for those it isn't, like relatives of people on this thread
Butwasitherdriveway · 28/03/2021 21:37

@DispensingShitAdviceSince2002

I'm sorry you have had a rubbish time too, *@KindnessCrusader* But would you have chosen to do any of this in order to help other people to "stay safe"? Because this is the rub. I have brought my children up to be kind, unselfish, thoughtful, etc, etc - but I haven't brought them up to sacrifice their nearest and dearest, and give up everything that matters, without a fight.
Yes.
ddl1 · 28/03/2021 21:42

Life is for living and it's time we all got on with it.

Life isn't for living any more if you're dead.

And there is much less 'getting on with life' if you are chronically ill, which is a more likely outcome than death.