If you're still sticking to ALL the rules/guidance - why?

[RaspberryCoulis]

Will start by saying I am not sticking to the covid rules any more. Obviously I can't go places which aren't open. But we have had people in the house, kids are going out with friends probably in larger numbers than are permitted, we're crossing local authority boundaries which is supposedly illegal in Scotland. Why? Because we've been in lockdown for a year, cases here are very low, and some things are more important than Covid.

But on every thread there are people claiming that they are sticking rigidly to every single rule and guideline, never breaking ANY rule. They would probably say I was a selfish covid-denier who was hellbent on murdering their granny.

So if you're sticking to all the guidelines and rules, without fail - why? People who are clinically extremely vulnerable (officially) I can understand in part if they're not vaccinated. But the rest of you? Is it because you're scared of Covid, or scared of your neighbours, or scared of breaking the law by mistake?

@XenoBitch

Thank you *@Nuitsdesetoiles*

The poster above who said the rules are easy to follow and no big deal.... I have no words.

People have perception of how life destroying these restrictions are for many many people. I teach student nurses. The cohort who started in September 2020 are in a bad way, they are withdrawn and apathetic. They hardly speak to each other as they don't yet know each other, they struggle to make meaningful contributions in class. I think some of them are slipping towards depression. They can't train on placements as placements are being very risk averse about having students. They are not going to emerge as safe and effective practitioners learning like this.

Sorry should say "no perception"

@RaspberryCoulis "And according to another poster, quite likely to murder my neighbour in cold blood, because all law breaking is equal."

Bloody hell you really don't get it to you? The COVID restrictions were legally implemented as the Gov and local authorities etc have a responsibility to protect public health. By doing so they can (or may be able to) help reduce avoidable deaths. This is a good thing. Restrictions on public health grounds are not implemented lightly. They are introduced when there is a serious and imminent threat to public health and urgent action is required to mitigate this threat.

Those breaking the rules are contributing to the spread of a "serious and imminent threat to public health". So yes, it's can be argued that it is akin to murder/manslaughter as you have the "mental intention for committing a crime and that your actions caused the death of another/others. (Very oversimplified argument)

You don't want to accept responsibility for your actions, hence the dummy spitting at anyone who disagrees with you.

So in my opinion, all law breaking is equals. People who break the law (and are caught and punished) are considered criminals by society. If you're not caught, are you a criminal still? Not legally, but morally yes and a reprehensible individual too.

I'll be honest here - I'm mainly sticking to the rules because it's easy enough for us to stick to them or at least it's no great hassle. It's not fun, but it's overall doable.
If it was greatly impacting on my mental health or that of my children I definitely would reconsider. Selfish maybe but we are an individualistic society and I will do what is best for my family first.

Personally I struggle to understand people who haven't seen their parents in months, unless CEV. I doubt I would have done that myself but I don't know. As it is I was lucky enough to be able to see them more than enough without breaking any rules.

@RaspberryCoulis to be fair, when you go out, you're seeing the people who are out. People who are home, you don't see. Or people like us - who go out but don't catch up in big groups - aren't that noticeable. It's a perception bias.

I believe we all have a responsibility to the greater community.

Every unnecessary transmission is a chance for the virus to mutate or to get to a person who will end up in contact having necessary contact with someone who is vulnerable.

The tragedy of the commons is an old story. We fail it again and again. I include myself in this. Often the problems are so large that we feel like we can’t make a difference. What is recycling one soda can when a factory is spewing pollution? With Covid we have a case where we are the big actors. Our backyard bbqs are the super-spreader events. We mix with a household and end up seeing the chain of the virus spread. For once we can see the consequences of our indifference, yet people still only consider themselves.

@EileenGC

The rules are easy to follow and no big deal.

For you. For others, they are a huge deal - they have changed our entire lives and what I’m doing now is half-living, not living.

I’m sticking to the rules because where I am, they still allow us to see other people and travel. There were a few exceptions when instead of 3 other adults, I met 4. Or I hugged a friend at the end of our walk. However, I don’t think I’d still be sticking to them if I was in the UK.

I completely understand you OP and I think there comes a time when people start doing their own risk assessments. A friend in England is meeting up with her parents on Monday, as per the new guidance. She is desperate to hug her dad, who is going through cancer treatment at the moment. When I asked her why wouldn’t she just hug him, she said ‘because of the rules’. They’ve all been vaccinated and aren’t actually scared of passing it to each other. But they can’t contemplate breaking the rules.

I guess it works for them because neither person lives alone. I’ve ‘broken the rules’ and hugged people in the past out of sheer desperation. I would happily get Covid tomorrow, I’m not scared of it. At all. Chances are, I’ll be fine. I’d rather catch Covid and be ill for some time, than continue this half-life which is unbearable.

Completely this.

I believe it is important to stick to the rules as much as possible. There are so many variants now and it is still possible, even with the vaccination, that these can get passed on. My children are not vaccinated. After seeing a few very healthy young adults get floored by covid and now suffering long covid I do not see why, just because time has passed, people think the threat has too.

Everyone on MN is staying inside?

That's simply not true. On every covid thread there are people saying they aren't.

Including this one.

@NeverTrustaRabbit are you restricting those comments about “criminals” to people who break the rules as enshrined into legislation? What about people who break the rules which are guidance but not law (and therefore breaking these rules is not unlawful at all still less a crime).

And plenty of people doing things within the rules are contributing to the spread of this serious threat the public health.

Honestly despair of how people see this very complex situation in black and white.

@Nuitsdesetoiles that is sadly so true. I’m working with the first years on my course at the moment, and their mental health is terrible right now. Most of them moved here from abroad, haven’t been able to meet new friends, learn the language properly, or have a normal start of their university experience. They’re withdrawn and making little progress, thinking of quitting and going back home. The ‘first year at [...]’ cohorts have been screwed over by this.

I have to take the people who say they are making sacrifices for the greater good or people they will never meet with a huge pinch of salt. Because they're not really, they are either protecting themselves, or their immediate family. Nothing wrong with that - but don't dress it up as something it's not.

Not true. I'm not concerned about my immediate family. I don't have any elderly or CEV relatives. I am doing this for the community, for friends, for acquaintances, for the families of children in my kids class etc. I don't have to know someone to not want to make them poorly.

@mn81987

@Robin233 I don't care! I'm not going to feel bad for seeing my family, it's not my problem if you haven't seen yours! I'm not going to lie awake at night thinking "oh no Robin hasn't seen her family".......couldn't give a fuck

^^^^^^

I wouldn't expect you to.
But that's the whole point
If we all thought like you and didn't bother following he rules they would have been a lot more deaths.

@Robin233 I stuck to it until Feb, I'm not waiting any longer, survival of the fittest now as far as I'm concerned.

I have friends who've broken the rules to work. Otherwise they can't afford the basics. That's where a lot of the transmission has occurred, people are more scared of hunger and poverty. And if that was my situation I would be too. This debate isn't black and white, it's nuanced and complicated.

“Survival of the fittest”?

Fucking hell.

@BlackbirdOtto

People breaking rules are:

1. Thick
2. Selfish and self absorbed.

If everyone broke the rules we would never get out of lockdown and there would be no hospital beds . Karma karma karma !

Wow...so me needing to hug my sister whilst we are still coming to terms with the loss of both parents last year makes me thick, selfish and self absorbed? Well aren't you a delight?

I am because of the reasons given for the roadmap. If case distribution, infection rate etc is monitored at each opening up step, there is a far better chance of better undertanding the virus and better managing any further waves. I have contributed daily to the Zoe Covid Symptom tracker and taken part in the ONS survey. The Zoe app has been really helpful with its localised information.

I have every sympathy for those who cannot keep to the requested rules due to financial and /or health (mental and physical) reasons, but as I can I will do as asked in the hope it will bring much more sense to future management of further waves or the next pandemic, whenever that may come along. Perhaps we can then be like countries who had previously experienced pandemics and had the know how and buy in to do what was needed (e.g. Taiwan, Vietnam).
I would like to live in a country where we do whatever we can to avoid those nightmare peaks we saw at Easter and New Year where healthcare staff and unwell people (due to Covid or another acute emergency) were put in life destroying situations.

[quote mn81987]@Robin233 I stuck to it until Feb, I'm not waiting any longer, survival of the fittest now as far as I'm concerned. [/quote]
I have no words. Let’s hope all your friends and family are up to scratch them. I genuinely wish the virus was discerning enough to choose those who are morally unfit rather than physically so.

@mn81987
I can understand your thinking
But if I pass Covid on ti someone who died because I was 'bore' it just wouldn't be worth it.

This too will pass
There is light at the end of the tunnel.
We've just got to hang in there.

Why?
Because:

I follow the rules
I don't want to catch Covid
I don't want to die or be the cause of someone else's death
I'm not a special snowflake and am capable of living with the current restrictions in place
I'm not hard of thinking

Because I'm not selfish And because I don't know how well those that I might come into contact with might have been following the rules/guidelines and judging by some on this thread, it's as well that I'm wary

We're in an extended household with my 84 year old dad (which also involves crossing a. LA boundary. I couldn't live with myself if dh or I inadvertently gave it to him. Even though I'm following all the guidelines, I do go to the supermarket on a weekly basis and obviously have no control over who I'm in contact with there. Ditto with the occasional trips to the newsagent.

My dad has been vaccinated now (gets his 2nd jag next week), dh was vaccinated 2 weeks ago and I was vaccinated 2 days ago.

We have one friend and his bidie-in who from the start have tried to push the boundaries, having meals in his summer house, which now has Perspex panels and a half Perspex door and within which it is impossible to maintain social distancing. As a result, even though he's now inviting us round for drinks, we're putting him off. Happy to have him over to our unenclosed patio.

I don't break the rules, nor have I. I'm not scared of Covid (and I have personal experience of how debilitating it can be, DH is still very unwell), so it's not fear of Covid. I am in a senior clinical NHS role and it would be both hugely hypocritical and very seriously frowned on (I imagine to the point of putting my job at risk) to not follow both the law and public health guidance.....And I'm knackered and would dearly love to rebuild some resilience by going for a walk on a beach (or frankly any where but work or our local park). However sadly beaches are 30 min drive away so not really local.

This too will pass. There is light at the end of the tunnel. We've just got to hang in there

I believe a large part of the problem is that people have lost faith in that.

@Crankley

Why? Because:

I follow the rules
I don't want to catch Covid
I don't want to die or be the cause of someone else's death
I'm not a special snowflake and am capable of living with the current restrictions in place
I'm not hard of thinking

I'm not a special snowflake and am capable of living with the current restrictions in place

Now I am a special snowflake for hitting rock bottom and struggling with the restrictions.