Je Suis Charlie

[JeSuisCharlie]

You have the right to be offended. I have the right to believe in what I want. We should learn from the pupils that we can be aware of differing opinions without the cancel culture
Join me if you agree with three small words...

I think we should start teaching children about the French Occupation in the same way we teach about the Holocaust in schools because for the life of me I cannot understand how:

German publication ridiculing Judaism = despicable
French publication ridiculing Islam = completely acceptable

The pictures are highly offensive and shouldn’t have been shown to children at all. As the previous poster said we don’t show children pornography when talking about it in PSE.
People can have free speech but that doesn’t mean they are free from the consequences of it. Hence we have hate crime laws. Also free speech Is not your right in private owned places or institutions such as schools their rules must be followed.

I will say this though je suis Charlie says a lot about you. Depicting children being blown up or raped, even a black woman being depicted as a monkey is offensive. The uproar in the last couple weeks surrounding the treatment of women and Sarah Everard is very hypocritical. Misogyny must be stopped and women must be protected but blatant racism is okay? Alright then.

I've never read or seen a copy of CH, shocked at some of the things mentioned in this thread.

I am not Charlie. We definitely need freedom of speech, but all the issues could have been discussed without needing to show the image. I think there can be real arrogance and intellectual superiority over people of faith, and attitudes to blasphemy is a key example of this.

Please try to imagine how you would feel if someone shared an offensive image about something YOU care about. Like what if someone printed a cartoon making fun of the murder of Sarah Everard or the abduction of a child like Madeleine McCann? If the person who created or shared that image was later murdered as a result, you would rightly condemn the murder as disproportionate and unjustified in a civilised society. But would you ever think it was ok to share the cartoon? Would you champion the right to make and share cartoons about femicide or child abuse?

This is how I see the Charlie Hebdo issue. It's not ok to threaten violence on people who offend you. But to deliberately offend people for no real reason other than your own amusement? This is legally allowed, and should remain so, but that doesn't make it morally right.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan poor little Alan. I just don’t understand what even goes through someone’s mind to think of drawing something like that? A two year old boy! The hatred is real.

@SmellsLikeTeenBedroom

I am not Charlie. We definitely need freedom of speech, but all the issues could have been discussed without needing to show the image. I think there can be real arrogance and intellectual superiority over people of faith, and attitudes to blasphemy is a key example of this.

Please try to imagine how you would feel if someone shared an offensive image about something YOU care about. Like what if someone printed a cartoon making fun of the murder of Sarah Everard or the abduction of a child like Madeleine McCann? If the person who created or shared that image was later murdered as a result, you would rightly condemn the murder as disproportionate and unjustified in a civilised society. But would you ever think it was ok to share the cartoon? Would you champion the right to make and share cartoons about femicide or child abuse?

This is how I see the Charlie Hebdo issue. It's not ok to threaten violence on people who offend you. But to deliberately offend people for no real reason other than your own amusement? This is legally allowed, and should remain so, but that doesn't make it morally right.

Exactly this.

It's Islamaphobia.

People arguing for the right to mock another culture's religion and spirituality.

Specifically, Muslim. As per usual.

It would have been very easy to have a discussion of Islam without showing that cartoon as bias.

Free speech yes, but free speech without consequences isn't a thing. We have the right to do and say many things but often don't, because we take sensitivity and the feelings of others into account in our day to day lives.

Unless one is an insensitive boor, in which case yes, there'll be consequences.

There haven't been death threats against Teacher either, it's just MN as per usual repeating something over and over whipping up a frenzy until most decide it's a true fact.

@SwitchUp it's just horrible. Their standard response seems to be, 'Oh, but we're mocking the people who are actually racist...'. I don't believe that for a moment, but even if they are - that doesn't mean it's OK to print the most sickening thing you can think of just to make a point.

Obviously I don't condone physical violence in response, but 'Je Suis Charlie'? If Tommy Robinson was killed by extremists, would anyone be saying 'I'm Tommy'?

If someone attacked or killed Tommy Robinson, would we all go around saying, I am Tommy Robinson? I don't think so. We might disapprove of him being harmed for his beliefs but we wouldn't embrace who he was either.

Please look at what Charlie Hebdo is before embracing them.

Obviously a cross-post with @JesusInTheCabbageVan : )

@topcat2014 I disagree. But your argument ‘Islam is not a race’ has illustrated that you are an islamaphobe so I can’t reason with you. Unfortunately.

@chaiandkaafee you misunderstand me. People (inc yourself?) are of course absolutely entitled to follow whatever faith you wish, free from persecution etc.

I was just trying to make points better expressed in newspapers today that your faith does not get to determine what is taught in non faith schools.

I'll bow out of this thread now.

I find it so odd that some people focus on the offensive picture causing distress, rather than the other side which is to encourage resilience and say.. Shrug.. So what it doesn't affect me...

Surely that's what people should be striving for

Je suis Alyan 😢

Not that the poor child ever got the chance to learn French.

@JeSuisCharlie ...

So come back and tell us:
(1) whether you have ever read Charlie Hebdo, or at least an English language article about one of their pieces?

(2) what you personally think of their cartoon depicted a drowned Muslim who could not walk on water like Jesus, in response to a child drowning? What do you actually think about that?

@JeSuisCharlie won’t come back to the thread though 🙄

For those on the thread who are saying they agree with OP... you may think it’s right to show this particular cartoon in this context. I don’t. But I respect your right to put your opinion. But please PLEASE can you think twice about throwing your lot in with the “Je suis Charlie” bandwagon, if you don’t (and I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here) know just how vile their cartoons are?

We should absolutely support the teacher's right to freedom of expression and freedom to offend. We mustn't give in to the far right, we have seen where far right book burnings, censorship of "decadent" art and literature leads and this can't be repeated.

I disagree. It costs us nothing to respect islamic beliefs that portraying the prophet is blasphemous. Free speech has nothing to do with pictures. No Muslim I know would deny people the right to discuss different cultural and religious differences. You don't need disrespectful pictures to discuss things.

What does a picture bring to any argument?

If there was an overarching desire to bend over backwards to muslims and other faiths/cultures, then we would be allowing child marriage, forced marriage, honour killings and female genital mutilation. We legislate against these things. A picture is not something that threatens our freedom of speech or action.

I'm not Muslim, but any teacher who shows students caricatures of Muhammad is being deliberately provocative and offensive and should lose their job. It is not a "debate". Everyone knows this would cause offence. And I always thought Charlie Hebo was a disgusting magazine after they made a "funny" caricature of the Russian airplane explosion that happened (the airplane full of holiday makers in Egypt) - totally hilarious to depict children coming back from a holiday being blown to pieces.

Absolutely agree with this.

Why are so many people on this thread obsessed with Judaism as an example of what cannot be criticised because that is bullshit. I have seen loads of anti-Semitic comments on Mumsnet where they say they are anti-Zionist or anti-Israel and nobody bats an eyelid. Apparently saying someone has big Jewish nose or is stingy is a valid criticism of Israel.

And lets not get started on how much criticism, ridicule and prejudice there is against Christianity, Catholicism/Christians. But it is absolutely acceptable to be as offensive as you like about Christians. Funny how nobody ever has a problem with that.

There is absolutely no problem with free expression when it is criticising Israel, Jews or Christians and I doubt all those complaining would want their right to criticise these topics curtailed.

@catspider

I didn’t compare the ridicule of Islam and Judaism in general and how it happens everyday, I know this and both aren’t acceptable. My point was that France were/are the oppressors of Muslims and Germany were the oppressors of Jews - Germany have apologised for their actions and any mockery of Judaism there is shut down and heavily criticised. However, France has no apologies or repentance for their actions and actively mock the people they oppressed and murdered. Then people come on to defend CH because “free speech innit” and obviously have no clue about the levels of fuckery surrounding the issue.

@dreamingbohemian

Obviously a cross-post with *@JesusInTheCabbageVan* : )

Great minds

@SprungisSpringYaY

I find it so odd that some people focus on the offensive picture causing distress, rather than the other side which is to encourage resilience and say.. Shrug.. So what it doesn't affect me...

Surely that's what people should be striving for

No. What you're talking about isn't 'resilience', it's selfishness.

Do you have DC, @SprungisSpringYaY? Let's say you do. OK, now imagine that one of them drowned, terrified and alone, far from you.

Then imagine a photo of their body was published in the media, wordlwide.

Then imagine that a famous magazine published a cartoon depicting your dead baby as a sexual predator. Really visualise that.

Now, how would you feel if people just went... so what it doesn't affect me. Is that the kind of attitude we should be striving for?

Je ne suis pas Charlie.

Funny how OP was so passionate about this earlier, but hasn't been back since the thread didn't go as expected. Goady fucker, or bandwagon jumper?

Just an interloping shit stirrer.

There is no such thing as "free speech" - the right to say and do whatever you want has always been curtailed by the law. That is why, for example, we have hate crime laws. There is no right to be offensive.

@Moondust001

This is so wrong. Freedom of speech is only curtailed by hate speech laws where it expresses hate or invites violence against a protected group. Everyone has the right to offend. And so we should.