Je Suis Charlie

[JeSuisCharlie]

You have the right to be offended. I have the right to believe in what I want. We should learn from the pupils that we can be aware of differing opinions without the cancel culture
Join me if you agree with three small words...

So glad to see the overwhelming majority are with the op according to the vote. We will never be silenced by religious zealots and fundamentalism.

@Flaxmeadow

Your route allows the goading of minority communities

The teacher is in the minority community in Batley, so in a roundabout way you're right. He is the one being goaded. He is the one receiving death threats and in hiding for his life

You tripped up on your assertion of 'facts' my lovely. Actually less than 50% of Batley is Muslim. You're welcome. ☺️

Reading through this thread. Local to Batley. Have a very very close link to the school.

Heartened by the consensus on MN. Thank you for your measured support as always.

The teacher concerned is well liked. Including by Muslim schoolchildren. The material was reportedly created by another teacher who is less well liked. Make of that what you will.

I don't support tracksuited men getting all agitated outside any school. IMO the community have probably felt marginalised for too long and are under the false impression that shouting and being a bit threatening is the only way to be heard.

It worked.

@Flaxmeadow

How is he the minority

Because Batley is majority Muslim

Source please Pamela Gellar

Source please Pamela Gellar

Batley East is 54% Muslim. "East" is the actual town of Batley.
The source is Office for National Statistics (ONS). There are numerous statistics and maps available online

I don't know who Pamela Gellar is or why you have mentioned her

You tripped up on your assertion of 'facts' my lovely. Actually less than 50% of Batley is Muslim. You're welcome

Not the actual town, AKA Batley East.
Please see my above comment

I don't know who Pamela Gellar is or why you have mentioned her

Having googled her it seems medicalfairytale is, with their shiny new user name, accusing you of being an anti Muslim conspiracy theorist. I guess it's a new type of Karening for those who are too hard of thinking to look at the facts and make a judgement. Or alternatively trying to hide the facts. Another way of trying to shut down conversation when light is shone on the shadows.

I expect that poster thinks they are super clever to have come up with such a connection. When in actual fact, just like those who use to term Karen, thru just identify themselves as someone not worth engaging with. There are other words that could be used to describe them. But I'd get deleted for saying them...

I never knew the DM readers were diverted to this thread. The mentality is exactly the same. Hypocrites, bigoted and twisted to suit you. There's no one right or wrong.

1. Death threats are absolutely disgusting but don't tarnish 2 billion Muslims worldwide with the same brush. Piers Morgan's son got death threats, I guess it was Muslims who sent those as well was it???

2. Who are you to judge or question ones beliefs and religion just because YOU don't believe in it or you don't like it? Who are you exactly?

3. There's a thin line between freedom of speech and offending ones belief where a 1/3 of the whole world population believes in that religion. You don't have to believe it and you're not forced to either but the most basic you can do is fucking respect those that do and not offend their beliefs.

Do you go off offending people's life choices at work saying it's your freedom of speech to comment or offend them? Do you go off to someone's wedding and offend the bride/grooms flower arrangement, food and theme just because you don't like it? Do you go to someone's house and start spluttering out your freedom of speech because you don't like their decor? You will get a whole army of people on MN saying how dare you be so judgemental blah blah blah so how is this different?

I've learnt about many religions through religious studies, through the communities I've lived in and through people I've worked with and my freedom of speech stops when I don't make it about myself because 1) I don't have to believe in it and 2) I don't have to live like it.
It's not about me, it's about them. It's their choice how they believe and how they live and the least I can do is respect their choices. This is the same for every single thing on all walks of life and is applied in all social situations if you don't want to get a black eye.

The day Charlie starts offending disabled
people, the Holocaust, massacres, your sexual orientation, your race, terminal illnesses and your pets or anything that you strongly believe in, love or born in and only then all of you will be shouting at the top of your lungs saying that's not freedom of speech. But of course, Islam is an easy target painted by our mainstream media, our governments so they could make money by selling arms and taking peoples lands because those people never had a voice so that's why it's so easy for you to offend. That's why they are so disposable for you. But remember, you turning a blind eye right now because it suits your freedom of speech, you will wake up one day when the same is done to you and only then you will see what's wrong with it...

I guess it's a new type of Karening for those who are too hard of thinking to look at the facts and make a judgement. Or alternatively trying to hide the facts. Another way of trying to shut down conversation when light is shone on the shadows.

Yes shutting down conversation with accusations. That's how it feels, and more often these days

Who are you to judge or question ones beliefs and religion just because YOU don't believe in it or you don't like it? Who are you exactly?

Who are you exactly to say that I can't? I have the right to discuss and debate anything I want. If I break the law, the law will deal with that. If I break talk guidelines MN will deal with that. And that is that...

The day Charlie starts offending disabled
people, the Holocaust, massacres, your sexual orientation, your race, terminal illnesses and your pets or anything that you strongly believe in, love or born in and only then all of you will be shouting at the top of your lungs saying that's not freedom of speech.

No I won't. Because whether I like what people say or not, that is freedom of speech. And I defend the right for people to say those things. Even if I find them unpleasant or abhorrent. I think you're confused as to what freedom of speech actually means.

There’s a big difference between being socially polite, and education. It doesn’t do to confuse the two and freedom of expression, short of hate, is permitted. We don’t have a uniformly religious society in the UK, and given what happened in the 1960s in England, it’s nit coming back. I’m grateful for that, and human rights, of which this lesson is a very good example, are essential. It doesn’t do to assume that posters go around berating individuals for their religious beliefs, but reasonably, I don’t want law or society to place religion in a higher category where there is no examination of the extremism it can cause.

@Erkrie

I don't know who Pamela Gellar is or why you have mentioned her

Having googled her it seems medicalfairytale is, with their shiny new user name, accusing you of being an anti Muslim conspiracy theorist. I guess it's a new type of Karening for those who are too hard of thinking to look at the facts and make a judgement. Or alternatively trying to hide the facts. Another way of trying to shut down conversation when light is shone on the shadows.

I expect that poster thinks they are super clever to have come up with such a connection. When in actual fact, just like those who use to term Karen, thru just identify themselves as someone not worth engaging with. There are other words that could be used to describe them. But I'd get deleted for saying them...

Not really sure what points you're trying to make, but you certainly used a lot of words to try and achieve your objective (whatever that was, I'm still not sure). Karening?

Shut down debate? Not really, I've joined a debate v close to home (literally).

Anti Muslim sentiment deserves rebuttal.

Also, my shiny new username is because I finally dl the app and I can't recall previous logins. Again, not sure of your point.

@Flaxmeadow

Source please Pamela Gellar

Batley East is 54% Muslim. "East" is the actual town of Batley.
The source is Office for National Statistics (ONS). There are numerous statistics and maps available online

I don't know who Pamela Gellar is or why you have mentioned her

Batley 'East' is not the 'actual town of Batley'. Batley is the town of Batley. (Can't believe I'm spelling this out)

Bit disingenuous of you to change your earlier assertion that the teacher was a minority in 'Batley'

DOI: Batley born and bred.

@Erkrie

Who are you to judge or question ones beliefs and religion just because YOU don't believe in it or you don't like it? Who are you exactly?

Who are you exactly to say that I can't? I have the right to discuss and debate anything I want. If I break the law, the law will deal with that. If I break talk guidelines MN will deal with that. And that is that...

I'm quite keen to hear the words you'd like to use to describe me, but then again you're scared of being deleted for saying them..

But don't you have free speech?

And yes I do think I'm very clever 😎

I'm quite keen to hear the words you'd like to use to describe me, but then again you're scared of being deleted for saying them

I'm sure you are. But I'll stick to the rules of the platform. So interactions here follow that. As I'm sure you are more than aware, those rules, when managed by someone else as part of the terms and conditions, are somewhat different to interactions in real life in the UK. But nice try. I won't be goaded.

And yes I do think I'm very clever

Well someone's got to be on your side. Best it's you.

look how the police dealt with women attending the vigil for Sarah Everard and compare and contrast with the police's kid gloves approach to the rent a mob, male, religious extremists in Batley.

Our police are becoming an embarrassment. I think they are deeply demoralised, underfunded, badly led and in many cases probably wishing they’d never joined the police force.

@Erkrie

Who are you to judge or question ones beliefs and religion just because YOU don't believe in it or you don't like it? Who are you exactly?

Who are you exactly to say that I can't? I have the right to discuss and debate anything I want. If I break the law, the law will deal with that. If I break talk guidelines MN will deal with that. And that is that...

No you don't! Keep your thoughts to yourself. People have their freedom to practice their religion and believe in it. It is not up to you how they do it or why they do it. Take your bigoted views elsewhere preferably to your own small minded dinner table at your own home. Your views mean nothing compared to 4 million citizens in this country and millions other citizens who have the freedom to practice and believe in their own religion which is protected by our law. It is not up to you to debate, criticise and disrespect people's beliefs just because you don't believe in or don't like it. Your freedom of speech ends at this point.

Your freedom of speech ends at this point.

No it doesn't. You don't like that? Tough.

It seems this is only true if you're talking about certain accepted topics. Some things can be discussed, others the rhetoric has to be accepted.

perky gets to the very heart of everything on this thread actually.

Most of us in the UK do not think we have to keep our views to ourselves and nor does we have to stop debating religions. We are allowed to say there is no God or it is silly for Catholics to think the host is the body of Christ at consecreation or criticie Christianity because Mary was probably 12 when she gave birh to Jesus, the son of God. We are allowed to deride, criticise, say open your eyes there is no God or on the other side - open your eyes and see there is a God. That is our freedom.

There are quite a few countries where there is no such right to offend, where cartoons might be banned, where even as in Thailand you can be bailed if you criticise the royal family. In the UK we have more freedoms even allowing Catholics to protest outside abortion clinics and allowing in churches and mosques anti gay passages to be read.
As we have these freedoms it therefore is harder to get the balance right between when one freedom hurts others eg gay teenager damaged by being in anti gay home or Jehovah's witness discouraged by the religion from university because the world is about to end so what would be the point?

No you don't! Keep your thoughts to yourself. People have their freedom to practice their religion and believe in it. It is not up to you how they do it or why they do it. Take your bigoted views elsewhere preferably to your own small minded dinner table at your own home. Your views mean nothing compared to 4 million citizens in this country and millions other citizens who have the freedom to practice and believe in their own religion which is protected by our law. It is not up to you to debate, criticise and disrespect people's beliefs just because you don't believe in or don't like it. Your freedom of speech ends at this point.

@perkymoose nope, I will not keep my thoughts to myself. You can practice your religion however you please, but I reserve the right to think and say out loud that is is ridiculous and criticize it as much as I please. That is the beauty of this country. My freedom of speech ends when it devolves into hate or incites violence. It ends at that point, and not before. I may suffer consequences at work or be thrown off MN for offending, but I still have freedom of speech (look up what that term means).

@perkymoose - you are claiming a form of religious privilege above other human rights which does not exist in the UK.

And this has been this way for a long time. I assume you live here, but are just very ignorant about our history and law, just the same as this religious ignorant mobs who seem to think offence taken is the same as an actual criminal offence.

Had you any understanding of our history I think you would understand how stupid these people are. They are ignorant, contrary to their claims that they are misunderstood.